haempe
Well-known
Last five years I've shot exclusive B/W film and I'm very happy with that.
I'm now in the planning phase for a documentary very-long-time project (speaking of decades) and feel a growing doubt to start this in B/W only.
Especially this thread gives me to think...
Should documentary photography not provide all possible informations for a later viewer?
What do You think?
I'm now in the planning phase for a documentary very-long-time project (speaking of decades) and feel a growing doubt to start this in B/W only.
Especially this thread gives me to think...
Should documentary photography not provide all possible informations for a later viewer?
What do You think?
icebear
Veteran
Have you ever missed color in your work of the last five years ?
Has any of the people seeing your work missed color ?
I personally find the colored version of the historic images very strange, like an overly sweet sugar coat.
Technically perfect execution but nonetheless very strange for me. I commented in the linked thread already.
I does not really add any "information" other than the color.
If you learned to "see" in b&w, then stick with it. Just my $0.02.
Has any of the people seeing your work missed color ?
I personally find the colored version of the historic images very strange, like an overly sweet sugar coat.
Technically perfect execution but nonetheless very strange for me. I commented in the linked thread already.
I does not really add any "information" other than the color.
If you learned to "see" in b&w, then stick with it. Just my $0.02.
Turtle
Veteran
It depends on whether you want to approach your work as 'information' or a personal piece of 'communication.' Function versus emotion. I prefer the latter, because it can be all the more functionally effective because of the subjective emotional dimension.
If you feel you should shoot it in B&W... if you feel you want to shoot it in B&W, shoot it in B&W. If you shoot it in colour because you believe someone else might prefer it in colour it will be a mistake I suspect. If you do not shoot with vision and passion, how can you expect others to see your vision and passion?
B&W isn't going out of fashion because it isn't and never was a fashion. Its a channel.... a way of altering the nature of the content and the way it is perceived. In 100 years there will be B&W stills, I am confident.
If you feel you should shoot it in B&W... if you feel you want to shoot it in B&W, shoot it in B&W. If you shoot it in colour because you believe someone else might prefer it in colour it will be a mistake I suspect. If you do not shoot with vision and passion, how can you expect others to see your vision and passion?
B&W isn't going out of fashion because it isn't and never was a fashion. Its a channel.... a way of altering the nature of the content and the way it is perceived. In 100 years there will be B&W stills, I am confident.
__jc
Well-known
Why on earth would you enter into a long-term project, especially one maybe involving decades of work, without an absolutely strong, clear vision of what you want to accomplish? Decisions about the tools you'll approach the project with are fundamental to the way you want the project to look. With respect, if you start with a half-assed "I'll shoot in a medium I'd rather not work in and see how I go" then how can you expect the work to fulfill your goals for the project, which are (presumably) definite?
haempe
Well-known
Thanks for the input!
For the linked stuff:
I'm not a great fan of colorizing such well known photos, but on the other hand I have no doubt, the most of the pictures would be done in color, if possible at the time.
For example the photo with the two soldiers: the fact, that they are wearing different uniforms, is nearly erased in B/W.
I have some scruples, to set my personal preferences over the needs of a hypothetical later viewer.
I want the lowest possible barrier to entry.
I don't want to shoot in this case for a photography-interested audience, but for people interested in illustrations of the change through time...
The project shall serve the needs of the target group, not the ego of the shooter... makes this kind of thinking sense to someone?
For the linked stuff:
I'm not a great fan of colorizing such well known photos, but on the other hand I have no doubt, the most of the pictures would be done in color, if possible at the time.
For example the photo with the two soldiers: the fact, that they are wearing different uniforms, is nearly erased in B/W.
I have some scruples, to set my personal preferences over the needs of a hypothetical later viewer.
I want the lowest possible barrier to entry.
I don't want to shoot in this case for a photography-interested audience, but for people interested in illustrations of the change through time...
The project shall serve the needs of the target group, not the ego of the shooter... makes this kind of thinking sense to someone?
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Take it easy. Take it at both.
mfogiel
Veteran
If you want a real document, you have to record the position of all particles in the universe at that particular time.
Problem is, position of particles cannot be determined and time is relative.
Problem is, position of particles cannot be determined and time is relative.
Scrambler
Well-known
Haempe, I would echo the comments above: do what YOU think is right. You are right, I suspect, to think that in future B&W will be even more oddball than it is now. But then so will any sort of film-based capture.
On the upside, B&W film will still be produced indefinitely, which is more than can be said for colour film, IMHO. And it lasts better.
On the upside, B&W film will still be produced indefinitely, which is more than can be said for colour film, IMHO. And it lasts better.
amalric
Member
I am loosely documenting my city and you raise a question I had to answer myself. I chose colour, because people expect photography in colour nowadays. To make an example McCurry who shot Afghanistan in colour and McCullin Vietnam in B&W. Both great photographers, but times change.
Of course I don't forbid myself to shoot B&W or use Art Filters when the situation requires it, but why limit yourself to a particular *style*? People also wear colours with intent, especially in the non-Western world.
Again I feel neo-realistic in that I use colour, while early realism used B&W, but again we live in postmodern times.
Having said that, I detest lurid colours, I would almost go for muted colours, if Olympus signature weren't so good in Natural. Cplour of course implies the choice of them, but that's additional information, not less, like in B&W. I think I have ended by considering B&W only as a peculiar choice of colour
Of course I don't forbid myself to shoot B&W or use Art Filters when the situation requires it, but why limit yourself to a particular *style*? People also wear colours with intent, especially in the non-Western world.
Again I feel neo-realistic in that I use colour, while early realism used B&W, but again we live in postmodern times.
Having said that, I detest lurid colours, I would almost go for muted colours, if Olympus signature weren't so good in Natural. Cplour of course implies the choice of them, but that's additional information, not less, like in B&W. I think I have ended by considering B&W only as a peculiar choice of colour
haempe
Well-known
Thanks again.
With a bit further thinking, I have to consider the possibility, my subconscious just want a new challenge.
I'll let it rest a bit before I decide.
Cheers.
With a bit further thinking, I have to consider the possibility, my subconscious just want a new challenge.
I'll let it rest a bit before I decide.
Cheers.
Wrong question to ask here... unless you want to stick with B&W.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
People have DRAWN and PAINTED valid documentations. Indeed, in biological classification, photography has only recently been accepted as a substitute for drawings, due to its lower capability at abstraction and reduction.
In general, documentary photography should be honest and up-front about its reduction, but every good documentary project I have ever seen was highly reduced - the art of documentation is to show as much as possible about the subject and as little as possible about anything unconnected to it. Given that black and white still makes up the majority of long-term relevant documentation (and most of the classics of the genre), it obviously is well up to the task.
In general, documentary photography should be honest and up-front about its reduction, but every good documentary project I have ever seen was highly reduced - the art of documentation is to show as much as possible about the subject and as little as possible about anything unconnected to it. Given that black and white still makes up the majority of long-term relevant documentation (and most of the classics of the genre), it obviously is well up to the task.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Keep it simple:
- What do you want to document?
- What do you want the product of your work to be?
Once you have those ideas fixed in your head, the choice of medium and issues like B&W or Color become obvious.
G
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
I can't see the point of the question since experience, of the bitter variety, tells me that whatever you decide they will stop making it or change it so much that it won't be the same. Imagine that you'd asked this in the 50's and then work out what film you'd have chosen and whether it is still available now. Try FP3 to make it easy or Agfa Dia Direct or any of the colour slide films...
Just my 2d worth.
Regards, David
I can't see the point of the question since experience, of the bitter variety, tells me that whatever you decide they will stop making it or change it so much that it won't be the same. Imagine that you'd asked this in the 50's and then work out what film you'd have chosen and whether it is still available now. Try FP3 to make it easy or Agfa Dia Direct or any of the colour slide films...
Just my 2d worth.
Regards, David
fotomeow
name under my name
Good question, but I wouldn't overthink it too much.
1. Stick with BW if that is what you like and have lots of experience with
2. Will the project look better in BW or color?
IMO, considering #1, & answering #2, will offer the answer you may be looking for.
1. Stick with BW if that is what you like and have lots of experience with
2. Will the project look better in BW or color?
IMO, considering #1, & answering #2, will offer the answer you may be looking for.
Paul Jenkin
Well-known
The question I'd ask is whether the colours will be particularly significant. If shooting, say, a piece on how fashion changes, colour could be an essential part of that process. I have to agree with what was said earlier in this thread, in that sitting down and scoping out the most appropriate tools and medium before launching into a long-term project (or any project, actually) will usually pay dividends.
ABrosig
Well-known
Personally, I'm not fond of colorized images. Colorization adds something that wasn't there in the original image and, to me at least, in some cases, cheapens (maybe too strong a word, but the best I can come up with) the image.
Some photographers tend to fall back on bright, flashy colors to make up for a lack of skill or implementation. That's not to say everyone who shoots exclusively color is a hack (no flames, please!) I'm just partial to black and white which, for me anyway, relies more on light and shadow and composition to make the image.
That said, the colorization job on these images is spot on. However, if you're interested in documentary photography, why not shoot in black and white? Or, in color, if you want to? I believe your best images come when you are the most comfortable shooting them.
If you're comfortable in black and white, shoot in black and white. If a subject wants to be shot in color, and you're wanting to stretch yourself, shoot it in color. But, above all, have fun doing it or it defeats the purpose.
Some photographers tend to fall back on bright, flashy colors to make up for a lack of skill or implementation. That's not to say everyone who shoots exclusively color is a hack (no flames, please!) I'm just partial to black and white which, for me anyway, relies more on light and shadow and composition to make the image.
That said, the colorization job on these images is spot on. However, if you're interested in documentary photography, why not shoot in black and white? Or, in color, if you want to? I believe your best images come when you are the most comfortable shooting them.
If you're comfortable in black and white, shoot in black and white. If a subject wants to be shot in color, and you're wanting to stretch yourself, shoot it in color. But, above all, have fun doing it or it defeats the purpose.
daveleo
what?
You should shoot each image the way you "see" it (I mean emotionally).
The work should have you embedded in it.
Stop trying to "second guess" what some future audience may favor or disfavor.
Don't take this badly, but if you are strictly looking to please an audience, I could say that you are being cowardly - you are afraid to show them how you are personally interpreting what's in front of you.
The work should have you embedded in it.
Stop trying to "second guess" what some future audience may favor or disfavor.
Don't take this badly, but if you are strictly looking to please an audience, I could say that you are being cowardly - you are afraid to show them how you are personally interpreting what's in front of you.
emraphoto
Veteran
Forgive the 'practical' guy here but...
B+W versus color obviously changes the way you approach composition etc. and I suspect you know this already.
Another very serious consideration is the affordability of post production and time allotments. Souping and scanning on your own can be a daunting task. Scanning and souping color, with consistent results at home can be done, I do it daily, but it involves a whole lot more preparation, attention and work. B+W is considerably easier... at home this is. If a lab is the route, flip all the above on its head.
I would also like to speak to the idea of you not being properly 'prepared' by posing this question. I try not to do to much visual' contextual or narrative preparation in advance. I come prepared, usually, with all options on the table and let the story guide me. If I am too rigid in my approach or visual expectations, I find small nuances and information is missed. Often I don't photograph for up to a few days after I arrive, while I get a sense of things.
With all that said, I approach things with my own modus operandi. I consider myself nothing more than a conduit and allow a great degree of creative control to lay in the hands of my subjects. Just my way of doing things.
Best of luck either way!
B+W versus color obviously changes the way you approach composition etc. and I suspect you know this already.
Another very serious consideration is the affordability of post production and time allotments. Souping and scanning on your own can be a daunting task. Scanning and souping color, with consistent results at home can be done, I do it daily, but it involves a whole lot more preparation, attention and work. B+W is considerably easier... at home this is. If a lab is the route, flip all the above on its head.
I would also like to speak to the idea of you not being properly 'prepared' by posing this question. I try not to do to much visual' contextual or narrative preparation in advance. I come prepared, usually, with all options on the table and let the story guide me. If I am too rigid in my approach or visual expectations, I find small nuances and information is missed. Often I don't photograph for up to a few days after I arrive, while I get a sense of things.
With all that said, I approach things with my own modus operandi. I consider myself nothing more than a conduit and allow a great degree of creative control to lay in the hands of my subjects. Just my way of doing things.
Best of luck either way!
lynnb
Veteran
Often the subject itself will 'speak' to you about the choice of bw or colour: ask yourself is colour intrinsic to the subject, and if so, in what ways will rendering it in bw affect the way it's perceived? Will those differences be negative or positive to your intent?
If you decide to shoot in colour, that is only the start - you have many choices to make about colour grading (a video term, referring to the 'look' of the processed colour files achieved through choice of colour media, and colour image processing).
Have you considered colour digital capture? That will leave you with the greatest processing options, although it's always better, in my opinion, to have a clear idea of the way you want your final output to look from the very start.
Good luck with your project!
If you decide to shoot in colour, that is only the start - you have many choices to make about colour grading (a video term, referring to the 'look' of the processed colour files achieved through choice of colour media, and colour image processing).
Have you considered colour digital capture? That will leave you with the greatest processing options, although it's always better, in my opinion, to have a clear idea of the way you want your final output to look from the very start.
Good luck with your project!