retinax
Well-known
When we use a hand-held meter, we tend to use different techniques to meter for different media, at least in high-contrast situations. Slide and digital keyed to the highlights, negative to the shadows. Now most cameras, even those with complex matrix metering, don't seem to have different modes for different media, or do any? Did the makers simply calibrate them for positive film, assuming that for neg users, it would either be good enough or they'd take the time to manually compensate, use spot meter...?
It's a purely theoretical questions for me as I don't use matrix metering cameras, but an interesting one.
It's a purely theoretical questions for me as I don't use matrix metering cameras, but an interesting one.
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
AFAIK, some of Minolta's Dynax -- Maxxum -- α (Alpha, in Japan) models had additional Chip cards for e.g. Highlight/Shadow situations; perhaps others know details?
Beemermark
Veteran
I believe all in camera meters, which use reflective light, are calibrated for the 18% grey card.
Bill Clark
Veteran
Doesn’t the same amount of photons (light) hit film be it negative or transparency?
With slide film I tend to underexpose a little as this is a positive film with overexposure can look washed out. Same for digital.
With negative film I tend to overexpise a little.
As Clint said, “you just gotta know (your) the limits.”
With slide film I tend to underexpose a little as this is a positive film with overexposure can look washed out. Same for digital.
With negative film I tend to overexpise a little.
As Clint said, “you just gotta know (your) the limits.”
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
My rule is simple: when I'm between the equator and about 40 degrees North or South, Diapositive = *sunny 18*, Negative = *sunny 12*
retinax
Well-known
What I'm wondering about may be pretty meaningless in practice, yes. In any case it would only matter in high contrast situations, because as you said, slide film doesn't like overexposure, so needs to be handled differently from neg at times.
Yes, or somewhere thereabouts, of course. There's no question for "dumb" meters (center-weighted), only for matrix metering. This must have some way to interpret the readings from different parts of the scene. It's not just averaging them, that would be the same as what can be achieved with a single metering cell. Ideally for slide film, the interpretation of the different readings would be done so to avoid overexposure, whereas with negative film to avoid underexposure. It would only make a difference in contrasty scenes.
retinax
Well-known
My rule is simple: when I'm between the equator and about 40 degrees North or South, Diapositive = *sunny 18*, Negative = *sunny 12*
Whoa that difference seems excessive.
Just looked at the manual for the Maxxum 9, couldn't find it in there, but this sounds interesting, hope someone else knows details.
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
Well, I haven't shot slides in years -- but truth is, most negative films will work fine, whether you expose it correctly (sunny 16), or overexpose it (sunny 11, sunny 8) up to two (perhaps even three?) stops or steps, however one wants to call it.
muser53
MUSER53
Meters are simply calibrated to render the metered area as 18% grey the film type is not taken into consideration.
That being said a good basic rule of thumb/starting point is to expose B&W film for the shadows and develop for the highlights. Slides typically should be metered not to blow out the highlights. Hence the recommendation to underexpose them a bit.
That being said a good basic rule of thumb/starting point is to expose B&W film for the shadows and develop for the highlights. Slides typically should be metered not to blow out the highlights. Hence the recommendation to underexpose them a bit.
narsuitus
Well-known
When I shoot slides, I prefer to use a Nikon SLR (such as the F4) with matrix metering because it has proven to be the most accurate for me.
Bill Clark
Veteran
Truth be known, with digital, everything I use RAW capture, I look at the histogram more than anything else. For me, it works better than a light meter.
retinax
Well-known
So if you have used it for negatives, did you also rely on the matrix metering? If it's optimal for slides, it might give you less shadow detail with negative film than what you could get otherwise, right?
For example, in a back-lit situation, with slide film, we would accept slight underexposure of the foreground if that allows keeping the background from blowing out, whereas with negative film (especially black and white, where we can control contrast in printing) we expose for the foreground and get the overexposed background back in the darkroom. So we'd give negative film a stop or two more if we're exposing deliberately, perhaps using a spotmeter.
Sumarongi
Registered Vaudevillain
Apparently it was made for another Dynax -- Maxxum -- α generation, see:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINOLTA-...DYNAX-700si-7000i-8000i-7xi-9xi-/380664538677
Steve M.
Veteran
Understanding a spotmeter and your film's range is the solution. W/ a spotmeter, take a couple of readings of the high and low in your shot, decide what is more important, and find a happy medium. If you can't achieve that due to the stop limit of your film, no matter what type of film you have, decide which you're willing to sacrifice to get what you want. My place of interest is generally in the center, especially w/ people, so I just use my camera's AE lock to get what I want exposed properly, recompose, and let things go where they will.
Your life will be much, much easier using a camera w/ a good spotmeter and AE lock.
Your life will be much, much easier using a camera w/ a good spotmeter and AE lock.
retinax
Well-known
Thank you, but I'm not looking for a solution here.
I thought I made clear that this is purely of theoretical interest to me. I don't use matrix metering and while I don't have a spot meter (yet?), I've sometimes used a normal reflective meter in the same way, by holding it up close to different objects in the scene.
retinax
Well-known
Ah I still can't find a manual for it, too bad! But the pictures on the packaging suggest it would do something like keying exposure to shadows or highlights indeed.
Freakscene
Obscure member
The ISO standard (2720:1974) for light meters, and all cameras, use 12% reflenctance as standard.
Marty
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Metering could be accurate or not. This is it. Media argument is irrelevant.
retinax
Well-known
No. One can expose negative film like slide film, but at times that means sacrificing shadow detail one could easily get.
Beemermark
Veteran
That's interesting. So that means metering a grey card would put it one stop (?) lighter on the zone system? Gotta think about that one.
It was always expose for the highlights with slide film, expose for the darkest area for negative film.