kennylovrin
Well-known
Hey
Perhaps this is a strange question to some, but I still wanted to ask...
The thing is, I haven't owned my M6 for very long, and some days I don't feel like developing film, but still I haven only shot 5 images or so with my digital camera since I got the M6.
There is something with it, I really appreciate the feeling of things, and the M6 feels like a product that is really well made etc.
I'm playing with the thought of dumping my Canon kit for an M9 because I enjoy my M6 so much. I still would like the convenience of digital available to me, and also I wouldn't have to keep two sets of lenses in a way.
So I just wanted to ask, physically, does the M9 feel like the M6 kind of? I don't necessarily mean dimensions, but does it have that solid, quite heavy feel to it, like it's all stuck together in a way that nothing will ever come lose again. It's like a solid piece of equipment.
Or does the M9 in fact feel "digital"? Is it too light for it's size, or such?
Maybe a ridiculous question, but I can't help but value those things. I really don't like stuff that feels "hollow" or "too light for it's size"
.
Thanks!
Perhaps this is a strange question to some, but I still wanted to ask...
The thing is, I haven't owned my M6 for very long, and some days I don't feel like developing film, but still I haven only shot 5 images or so with my digital camera since I got the M6.
There is something with it, I really appreciate the feeling of things, and the M6 feels like a product that is really well made etc.
I'm playing with the thought of dumping my Canon kit for an M9 because I enjoy my M6 so much. I still would like the convenience of digital available to me, and also I wouldn't have to keep two sets of lenses in a way.
So I just wanted to ask, physically, does the M9 feel like the M6 kind of? I don't necessarily mean dimensions, but does it have that solid, quite heavy feel to it, like it's all stuck together in a way that nothing will ever come lose again. It's like a solid piece of equipment.
Or does the M9 in fact feel "digital"? Is it too light for it's size, or such?
Maybe a ridiculous question, but I can't help but value those things. I really don't like stuff that feels "hollow" or "too light for it's size"
.Thanks!
gdi
Veteran
The M9/M8 have a significantly different feel than the film Ms, IMO. They are significantly fatter and the absence of an advance/cocking lever results in different handling. However, they do feel substantial and solid, they are not lightweight - I think the weight is similar to an M6....
R
rpsawin
Guest
My introduction to Leica M's started with an M6, then an M2 and then an MP. They each have a different feel yet are clearly closely "related". When I first used my M8 there was the same sense of individual feel and family familiarity. I had a chance recently to use an M Monochrom for a weekend and it was the same.
Across the various bodies I was using a rangefinder camera in an almost identical way. The bodies felt familiar each step of the way. That is my experience and others may differ.
Best regards,
Bob
Across the various bodies I was using a rangefinder camera in an almost identical way. The bodies felt familiar each step of the way. That is my experience and others may differ.
Best regards,
Bob
BNLee
Established
I think the M9 is made of brass right? (Correct me anyone, if I'm wrong, I am not that familiar with Digital Ms)
From many sources I have read and seen (Sorry, no first hand experience), even the brass Ms, such as the M2s, M4s are heftier or more solid compared to the M6, which was made of Zinc alloy (That is why many consider the M2, 3 and 4 as the pinnacle of the Leica Ms). Which means in a case of an M9 (Again, correct me if I am wrong) which is made of brass, will definitely feel more solid compared to an M6, that is unless you put tonnes of lead in your M6...
And yes, you will never get the RAW feeling of shooting film if you use an M9. If film doesn't feel special to you, then you can make the jump right away, but to many of us, there is a certain quality and feel to using film, up to this day of the digital age.
Just a piece of advice, I saw some people selling their SLR gear to fund rangefinder gear, but most of them still miss their SLR gear as it can do many things that their rangefinders cannot, action, macro etc. Again, if you don't think you will be doing any of this kind of photography, then take the plunge.
Have a nice day!
From many sources I have read and seen (Sorry, no first hand experience), even the brass Ms, such as the M2s, M4s are heftier or more solid compared to the M6, which was made of Zinc alloy (That is why many consider the M2, 3 and 4 as the pinnacle of the Leica Ms). Which means in a case of an M9 (Again, correct me if I am wrong) which is made of brass, will definitely feel more solid compared to an M6, that is unless you put tonnes of lead in your M6...
And yes, you will never get the RAW feeling of shooting film if you use an M9. If film doesn't feel special to you, then you can make the jump right away, but to many of us, there is a certain quality and feel to using film, up to this day of the digital age.
Just a piece of advice, I saw some people selling their SLR gear to fund rangefinder gear, but most of them still miss their SLR gear as it can do many things that their rangefinders cannot, action, macro etc. Again, if you don't think you will be doing any of this kind of photography, then take the plunge.
Have a nice day!
raphaelaaron
Well-known
I have an M6 and M9P, and they feel different to me. As already stated, the digital M is fatter, and weight it slightly heavier.
the M6 feels lighter, yet solid. the digital is heavier but the solid part is still there.
also there are differences i feel to achieving the shots. the shutter feels different on both cameras. i really enjoy the shutter of the M6. though the M9 has gone through great lengths to achieve film M sound, it still sounds different. at least to my ears.
and coming from an M film user background, I like the feeling of cocking the shutter after a shot. It's just weird that it isn't there with the digital M. for me, it made a different experience in shooting with the two cameras.
the whole LCD thing is great, but sometimes i wish it wasn't there. so it makes the film experience closer to shooting like you were using film. i've found myself using my M9 the same manner as my 5D---shoot, look. shoot, look. shoot shoot shoot....look, navigate through.
i know i could just not look at the LCD screen, but it's there. so might as well. here's where the Epson RD shines through.
the M6 feels lighter, yet solid. the digital is heavier but the solid part is still there.
also there are differences i feel to achieving the shots. the shutter feels different on both cameras. i really enjoy the shutter of the M6. though the M9 has gone through great lengths to achieve film M sound, it still sounds different. at least to my ears.
and coming from an M film user background, I like the feeling of cocking the shutter after a shot. It's just weird that it isn't there with the digital M. for me, it made a different experience in shooting with the two cameras.
the whole LCD thing is great, but sometimes i wish it wasn't there. so it makes the film experience closer to shooting like you were using film. i've found myself using my M9 the same manner as my 5D---shoot, look. shoot, look. shoot shoot shoot....look, navigate through.
i know i could just not look at the LCD screen, but it's there. so might as well. here's where the Epson RD shines through.
presspass
filmshooter
I can't speak for the M9, but the M8 has a significantly different 'feel' than the film Ms, including the M7. It is much louder - not DSLR or Nikon SLR loud, but louder. It is also quite a bit more finicky.
ray*j*gun
Veteran
I get the same feeling of quality with my M8 as I do with my M2. No question that they are different in dimension and in other ways as pointed out but I do get that Leica solid feeling with my M8..... nothing at all like my Nikon DSLR.
_goodtimez
Well-known
The feel is much different. The digital M's are essentially small computers fitted with a sensor and a lens upfront.
I have disassembled an M8 so I know how it's assembled.
To me the film cameras have some sort of soul which the digital ones are lacking. That may seem a bit extreme but this is how I feel the difference.
I have disassembled an M8 so I know how it's assembled.
To me the film cameras have some sort of soul which the digital ones are lacking. That may seem a bit extreme but this is how I feel the difference.
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
I've used M6, M8 and M9. The whole film/digital thing aside, my personal feeling was that the M8 felt much different in the hand to my M6 bodies - the dimensions are different as has been mentioned. I felt the need for a thumbs-up grip as I always made the most of the advance lever arm whilst holding my film bodies and this improved the handling massively for me.
When I bought and used my M9, again with a thumbs-up, it felt the closest to my everyday shooting experiences with film M bodies. However, much of this was the fact it was full frame with framelines that were accurate in the same manner as my M6. Although the handling felt very very similar to me, but that's just me.
Everyone has a different opinion on this as they do as to which M body is the best in their opinion. The only way to really tell what you think is to go and have a play with one in a store...or even better, rent one for a week and give it a real chance.
All the best with your decision
When I bought and used my M9, again with a thumbs-up, it felt the closest to my everyday shooting experiences with film M bodies. However, much of this was the fact it was full frame with framelines that were accurate in the same manner as my M6. Although the handling felt very very similar to me, but that's just me.
Everyone has a different opinion on this as they do as to which M body is the best in their opinion. The only way to really tell what you think is to go and have a play with one in a store...or even better, rent one for a week and give it a real chance.
All the best with your decision
icebear
Veteran
... as expected such a simple question on "how does it feel" yields very polarized, subjective answers.
If you look for a full frame digital rangefinder with a M feeling, there are very few choices.
For me the M9 and the Monochrom are Ms which I use exactely the same way I used my M6 and MP.
I put a thumbs up and photoequip grip on both and handling is perfect for my hands.
Both feel heavy and solid and not at all plastic like as any other digital camera.
The dimensions are not 100% matching and yes both do have a screen - so what ?
It's the digital age folks, get over it. Turn off "auto play" and don't be bothered with peeping your shots.
Keep shooting and don't miss life staring at the $&?%@ screen ! Watch it at home!
Ultimately it's a personal judgement if your are flexible enough to cope with the small differences or keep on lamenting the rest of your life.
If you look for a full frame digital rangefinder with a M feeling, there are very few choices.
For me the M9 and the Monochrom are Ms which I use exactely the same way I used my M6 and MP.
I put a thumbs up and photoequip grip on both and handling is perfect for my hands.
Both feel heavy and solid and not at all plastic like as any other digital camera.
The dimensions are not 100% matching and yes both do have a screen - so what ?
It's the digital age folks, get over it. Turn off "auto play" and don't be bothered with peeping your shots.
Keep shooting and don't miss life staring at the $&?%@ screen ! Watch it at home!
Ultimately it's a personal judgement if your are flexible enough to cope with the small differences or keep on lamenting the rest of your life.
Fuchs
Well-known
I have an M6 classic and a loaner M9, and both feel substantially different. For me, it's something with the proportions. My first Leica was a late M4-P, in practice almost the same zinc-alloy body than the M6, so same porportions and weight. Since then, I have had M6TTL, M7, M8, and this M9.
The M8 and M9 are heftier and feel *bigger* than the analog M Leicas. But for me, the reference to which every other camera is compared remain always the classic M4-P/M6, so I feel a little displaced when using the M8/9.
I think Leica lost the opportunity to introduce a new form factor, based more on the digital requirements and a more modern concept of ergonomics when they designed the digital M's. Sort of when they introduced the R8, departing from the previous Leica R design. Perhaps the trauma of the M5 flop is still fresh in the Solms designers.
The M8 and M9 are heftier and feel *bigger* than the analog M Leicas. But for me, the reference to which every other camera is compared remain always the classic M4-P/M6, so I feel a little displaced when using the M8/9.
I think Leica lost the opportunity to introduce a new form factor, based more on the digital requirements and a more modern concept of ergonomics when they designed the digital M's. Sort of when they introduced the R8, departing from the previous Leica R design. Perhaps the trauma of the M5 flop is still fresh in the Solms designers.
umcelinho
Marcelo
a: nope, they don't.
they're a bit bigger, true, but it's a difference that is so subtle that is not really relevant in actual use.
you'll miss the advance lever, but it will be useful in some situations to not need to advance it.
noise on the M9 is more or less the same as the film Ms, what is noisier is the motor advance, but you can muffle it with a jacket or tshirt or a leather halfcase if you really NEED to be more silent. but it's not a big deal as many make it seem to be. if you want a truly silent camera, get an X100, I've taken photos from people on the bus next to their ears (literally) and they didn't even acknowledge it.
you can use it as a film camera, just set the iso, shoot raw and manual and don't check the LCD.
they're a bit bigger, true, but it's a difference that is so subtle that is not really relevant in actual use.
you'll miss the advance lever, but it will be useful in some situations to not need to advance it.
noise on the M9 is more or less the same as the film Ms, what is noisier is the motor advance, but you can muffle it with a jacket or tshirt or a leather halfcase if you really NEED to be more silent. but it's not a big deal as many make it seem to be. if you want a truly silent camera, get an X100, I've taken photos from people on the bus next to their ears (literally) and they didn't even acknowledge it.
you can use it as a film camera, just set the iso, shoot raw and manual and don't check the LCD.
kennylovrin
Well-known
Thanks for all the replies. I do understand that there is an actual feel in the hand that might differ. And also that it is subjective how much of a prob it is and so on.
I'm thinking more in terms of psychological feel. I know I'm on thin ice here, but I kind of like these discussions.
It's interesting that the x100 is brought up, I used to own one. To me it felt like a well made tin jar with a shutter button and lens. I don't mean it's wrong, I just mean that it doesn't feel at all close to my m6.
It's the same thing for me with mobile phones, some just doesn't feel right, empty, hollow, light. Not everyone has to agree with me, but for example there isn't a single computer manufacturer out there that comes close to the feeling of an apple machine. That's the thing, that feeling that just makes it feel a little bit better than the competition - talking from a non technical perspective.
I guess the bottom line is that I am looking at all the angles of where the money goes when somone purchases a Leica. I mean, I am considering one, but I still think the prices for Leica bodies are completely ridiculous.
Image quality sure, I've seen how good it is online, bit there are loads of much cheaper cameras that produce just as good a result. Th range finder experience sure, I enjoy that a lot, but not sure it's enough to warrant the cost. And on it goes..
The thing that really strikes me with the m6 is just how great it feels, if feels like I actually paid for something more than just a box with a lens.
I don't know, maybe I've just fallen for the brand value, which I'm sure is very presen with Leica, just as it is with Apple, or even some car manufacturers.
I'm thinking more in terms of psychological feel. I know I'm on thin ice here, but I kind of like these discussions.
It's interesting that the x100 is brought up, I used to own one. To me it felt like a well made tin jar with a shutter button and lens. I don't mean it's wrong, I just mean that it doesn't feel at all close to my m6.
It's the same thing for me with mobile phones, some just doesn't feel right, empty, hollow, light. Not everyone has to agree with me, but for example there isn't a single computer manufacturer out there that comes close to the feeling of an apple machine. That's the thing, that feeling that just makes it feel a little bit better than the competition - talking from a non technical perspective.
I guess the bottom line is that I am looking at all the angles of where the money goes when somone purchases a Leica. I mean, I am considering one, but I still think the prices for Leica bodies are completely ridiculous.
Image quality sure, I've seen how good it is online, bit there are loads of much cheaper cameras that produce just as good a result. Th range finder experience sure, I enjoy that a lot, but not sure it's enough to warrant the cost. And on it goes..
The thing that really strikes me with the m6 is just how great it feels, if feels like I actually paid for something more than just a box with a lens.
I don't know, maybe I've just fallen for the brand value, which I'm sure is very presen with Leica, just as it is with Apple, or even some car manufacturers.
hteasley
Pupil
I shoot my M9 and MP side by side quite often, and while I prefer the thinner MP body in the hand, I don't find the shooting experience to be substantially different. They key to me is just the way the M sits in your hand, and the way it feels as you adjust your grip. Too many DSLRs have these sculpted grips that force you to hold it only one way, some even with indents for your fingers, dictating where they should go precisely. I don't like that.
Neither film nor digital M makes those sorts of impositions. The view and the handling are substantially similar, to me. So, if you like handling the M6, you'll like handling the M9, I would guess.
Neither film nor digital M makes those sorts of impositions. The view and the handling are substantially similar, to me. So, if you like handling the M6, you'll like handling the M9, I would guess.
mani
Well-known
I've owned or used an M2, M6 (two of them), M7, M8 and M9 (and an RD1s). In my opinion the 'feel' of the digital cameras (and by this I mean both the psychological and the literal) is very different from the film cameras.
If this were a sliding scale, the M2 would be towards one end, while the M8 and M9 would be somewhere just after the mid-point. Further along on the opposite scale would be any of the standard DSLRs and digicams.
For the 'film-like' feel of a digital camera, the RD1/RD1s is closer to the 'soul' of shooting with a film camera - especially those models where the screen could be folded away and forgotten (the RD1x screen can't be folded away).
I far prefer using my film cameras - they feel really 'right' in the hand, for some intangible reason - but as you see in this thread, opinions differ. Why not see if you can hire or borrow an M9 for a few hours or a weekend? That would help far more than all the contradictory and subjective opinions on this forum.
If this were a sliding scale, the M2 would be towards one end, while the M8 and M9 would be somewhere just after the mid-point. Further along on the opposite scale would be any of the standard DSLRs and digicams.
For the 'film-like' feel of a digital camera, the RD1/RD1s is closer to the 'soul' of shooting with a film camera - especially those models where the screen could be folded away and forgotten (the RD1x screen can't be folded away).
I far prefer using my film cameras - they feel really 'right' in the hand, for some intangible reason - but as you see in this thread, opinions differ. Why not see if you can hire or borrow an M9 for a few hours or a weekend? That would help far more than all the contradictory and subjective opinions on this forum.
raphaelaaron
Well-known
people look at screens. get over it.
there's surprising truth to those sentiments. the human body doesn't come with a ton of proprioceptive quality for no reason. we can actually feel the minute differences between products. i guess that's why even Jobs touted the iPhone 4 as being almost like an old Leica.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Just about close enough -- and the more you use 'em, the more you get used to 'em. The real point is that nothing else even feels close. Film Ms still feel nicer, though.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
Harry Lime
Practitioner
I think what bothered me the most about the digital M bodies is the shutter release. It doesn't feel anywhere as crisp as a film M and that is not a good thing. Hopefully the M240 will be an improvement.
The inaccuracy of the framelines on the original M8 render the camera close to useless, but that was corrected with the M8.2 and apparently you can have the mask upgraded in the M8. The framelines in the M9 are very good. The same as a pre-M6 film body (1 meter coverage)
I could live with the fatter body. It doesn't feel as lean and elegant as a film M, but it does feel like a Leica M, if that makes any sense. If Apple made the M series it would probably be a lot thinner. Jony Ive (head designer for Apple) is doing a special edition for Leica and I'm curious to see what he comes up with.
The inaccuracy of the framelines on the original M8 render the camera close to useless, but that was corrected with the M8.2 and apparently you can have the mask upgraded in the M8. The framelines in the M9 are very good. The same as a pre-M6 film body (1 meter coverage)
I could live with the fatter body. It doesn't feel as lean and elegant as a film M, but it does feel like a Leica M, if that makes any sense. If Apple made the M series it would probably be a lot thinner. Jony Ive (head designer for Apple) is doing a special edition for Leica and I'm curious to see what he comes up with.
doolittle
Well-known
I started with an M6 too, and felt exactly the same way about the camera. It felt solid, yet not a burden. A feeling of no wasted space and a wonderful feel of mechanical engagement with each shutter press.
You won't get that with an M9 or any other digital camera for that matter. If that is what you are after, you are out of luck.
However if you want a superb tool for taking digital photos with as little unnecessary distraction as possible, it might be for you.
For a digital camera the Ms feel solid. They don't have the timeless feel of the analog Ms, that would be expecting too much. Fiddly buttons on the back etc. The soon to be launched M feels much better in this regard. The on/off switch on the M8 is annoyling lose, the one on the M9 is much improved. Shutter action, especially in Discrete mode, is quite satisfying.
My summary: don't go chasing what you have in the M6. Honestly appraise what you need out of a digital camera and proceed from there. If you have both an M6 and an M9, which will you use, which will you carry round.
You won't get that with an M9 or any other digital camera for that matter. If that is what you are after, you are out of luck.
However if you want a superb tool for taking digital photos with as little unnecessary distraction as possible, it might be for you.
For a digital camera the Ms feel solid. They don't have the timeless feel of the analog Ms, that would be expecting too much. Fiddly buttons on the back etc. The soon to be launched M feels much better in this regard. The on/off switch on the M8 is annoyling lose, the one on the M9 is much improved. Shutter action, especially in Discrete mode, is quite satisfying.
My summary: don't go chasing what you have in the M6. Honestly appraise what you need out of a digital camera and proceed from there. If you have both an M6 and an M9, which will you use, which will you carry round.
Marc G.
film loving student
the feel is different.
I first got the M6ttl in chrome and the first digital one I touched was a M-E (which I bought a couple weeks after that, not the same camera but a M-E)
the analog is slimmer and feels more solid with it being less bulky although bulky is the wrong word to describe it because it give a negative connotation to the digital one.
the M-E is thicker and although it is just 3mm you feel it immediatly. but since I use a half case on both cameras I seem to appreciate a little thicker feel and I must say: both feel incredible. even the buttons and the wheel of the digital leica feel just well made compared to canikon stuff. leica definitely does something to give a good hands-on-feeling to the products
both are, to me, the best cameras if you like a good feel
I first got the M6ttl in chrome and the first digital one I touched was a M-E (which I bought a couple weeks after that, not the same camera but a M-E)
the analog is slimmer and feels more solid with it being less bulky although bulky is the wrong word to describe it because it give a negative connotation to the digital one.
the M-E is thicker and although it is just 3mm you feel it immediatly. but since I use a half case on both cameras I seem to appreciate a little thicker feel and I must say: both feel incredible. even the buttons and the wheel of the digital leica feel just well made compared to canikon stuff. leica definitely does something to give a good hands-on-feeling to the products
both are, to me, the best cameras if you like a good feel