meezy
meezy
seems to me, after 15+ years of using film cameras, the skills needed to make a shot "successful" were threefold:
1. technical skill w/ the machine itself - manually setting shutterspeed, aperture, etc.
2. artistic skill - composition, timing, etc.
3. more technical skill - nuances in the development of the film - choice of chemicals, duration, etc.
i just got a canon 5d mk ii. great shots with great ease - but seems like 2/3 of the skills that i was actively using previously are no longer necessary. it's a really expensive point-and-shoot.
i mean, besides changing shutter speed and aperture for some particular desired effect, you are not likely to set a better exposure than the camera does for you...
i think film will be around for a while - for the same reason that bicycles still thrive even though there are motorcycles.
1. technical skill w/ the machine itself - manually setting shutterspeed, aperture, etc.
2. artistic skill - composition, timing, etc.
3. more technical skill - nuances in the development of the film - choice of chemicals, duration, etc.
i just got a canon 5d mk ii. great shots with great ease - but seems like 2/3 of the skills that i was actively using previously are no longer necessary. it's a really expensive point-and-shoot.
i mean, besides changing shutter speed and aperture for some particular desired effect, you are not likely to set a better exposure than the camera does for you...
i think film will be around for a while - for the same reason that bicycles still thrive even though there are motorcycles.
250swb
Well-known
I would worry if I thought I had nothing new to learn, even with 30 years experience of photography.
Maybe the 5D MkII could get you different photo's, or allow you to work the subject more intensely, or allow you to think of other things apart from exposure and development. At the very least it could be the start of a post processing learning curve if you have no previous digital experience, and this leads to new skills.
Old skills are useful, but like a bicycle they are no longer the only means to get from A to B.
Steve
jarski
Veteran
bicycles will still thrive long after motorbikes have run out of fuel.
will same happen with film SLR's when digitals ran out of megapixels ?
will same happen with film SLR's when digitals ran out of megapixels ?
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Yet another digital verses film thread ...
My prefered medium is film but I've just bought a D700 which in reality is not a lot different in it's capabilities to the Canon 5D II you've just bought ... so my point of view now comes from a slightly different perspective than previously.
To call a Canon 5D II an expensive point and shoot is bizarre ... it can be used that way of course but why would anyone spend so much money to do so? ... they'd be better off with a G11 surely!
I'll be using my D700 professionally and using it predominantly with manual focus lenses and shooting it in manual mode ... the skills required to produce decent images will be no less challenging than if I was using a film camera.
As I said ... I personally prefer film for it's look ... but I think that good digital output requires every bit as much effort and skill to get a correct end result.
literiter
Well-known
Motorcycle for the speed, bicycle for the exercise.
Digital for the speed, film for the exercise.
I'm not a professional, merely a seasoned amateur. I'm absolutely blown away by the results from digital cameras. We see wildlife pictures taken with high end digital cameras that might not have come about as readily with film cameras. I've seen portraits that blow me away.
The cameras we see today will be improved in countless ways as the years go by and therein lies the problem for me. I'm tired of it. I don't want to buy new stuff all the time. I haven't learned to use my Leica M2 I've had for 30 years yet even though I've run literally thousands of rolls of film through it. I have yet to explore all the possibilities with my lowly Nikon F2.
It reminds me that some of the most beautiful literature ever written was done with a simple tool, like a pen or a manual typewriter.
I might not need anything better.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
Meezy, I bet you were up in arms when they put meters in cameras, huh? Your complaint is bogus. Just turn the dial on that 5DII until it says "M" and you can control shutter speed and aperture all you like. Set that lens to "M" and you can focus manually until your arm falls off. Nobody is making you use the automation in a 5DII anymore than than the Aperture Priority metering in an M7.
As for the film developing stuff, most people shooting rangefinders now haven't developed film themselves since the invention of the 1-hour photo lab.
As for the film developing stuff, most people shooting rangefinders now haven't developed film themselves since the invention of the 1-hour photo lab.
ruby.monkey
Veteran
Isn't skill number 2 the only one that really matters?
coelacanth
Ride, dive, shoot.
Oftentimes, bicycle works much better than motorcycle. Imagine commute in SF or NYC.
And of course so many other things, motorcycle is much "practical" choice than bicycle.
DSLR is much more practical than film for many things, but film works better for something else. I love working in darkroom and making prints from b/w film. I love tiny camera with quiet shutter, using so called full-frame focal plane at a fraction of M9 cost or 5D's size. For the b/w darkroom print, obviously the film is the only the "real" way. At least right now, tiny, cheap "full frame" camera is film camera.
The work of bicycle messenger is only possible with, well, bicycles. Motorcycle won't do the job in the busiest part of the city. Sure it's a tiny fraction of bi-cycle use in the world, but it's there.
And if you think 5D Mk2 is a big P&S, then probably that camera is not your most practical choice. There are so many things pro-summer DSLR can do. Many people don't need it, but many others do. It's still the most convenient all-in-one solution for many people, and only a few choices out there for digital full frame users. Maybe the OP is a right candidate for future full frame mirror-less interchangeable lens camera, not high-spec DSLR.
And of course so many other things, motorcycle is much "practical" choice than bicycle.
DSLR is much more practical than film for many things, but film works better for something else. I love working in darkroom and making prints from b/w film. I love tiny camera with quiet shutter, using so called full-frame focal plane at a fraction of M9 cost or 5D's size. For the b/w darkroom print, obviously the film is the only the "real" way. At least right now, tiny, cheap "full frame" camera is film camera.
The work of bicycle messenger is only possible with, well, bicycles. Motorcycle won't do the job in the busiest part of the city. Sure it's a tiny fraction of bi-cycle use in the world, but it's there.
And if you think 5D Mk2 is a big P&S, then probably that camera is not your most practical choice. There are so many things pro-summer DSLR can do. Many people don't need it, but many others do. It's still the most convenient all-in-one solution for many people, and only a few choices out there for digital full frame users. Maybe the OP is a right candidate for future full frame mirror-less interchangeable lens camera, not high-spec DSLR.
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gerikson
Established
When digital came along, we already had evaluative/matrix metering, af lenses, all-auto program mode... heck, film loading was automatic too.
All that happened was the film was swapped for a sensor.
Only people shooting b&w and a small minority of colour shooter developed themselves. If you shot slides, you hoped to hell your exposure was correct and trusted the lab. Better exposure systems were in part driven by slide film's small latitude.
All that happened was the film was swapped for a sensor.
Only people shooting b&w and a small minority of colour shooter developed themselves. If you shot slides, you hoped to hell your exposure was correct and trusted the lab. Better exposure systems were in part driven by slide film's small latitude.
user237428934
User deletion pending
You are absolutely right. It was all there before digital. Look at Nikon F4 to F6 or Canon EOS 3 / EOS 1.
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
But the M6 had "soul" and the M9 is soulless. Get with the program.
ruby.monkey
Veteran
Perhaps, but the M3 has style.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
But I read here - last week, that there will soon be nothing to feed the poor souls on!.....stylish or not..........OMG! we are off again!
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Technical skills aren't that hard to acquire, and are only a means to an end, the aesthetic skills. Photography can't be 'too easy'.
And it's not 'digital v. film' that worries me, but rather, 'huge bloated SLRs (film or digital) with 43 modes vs. small simple Leicas'. Or for that matter, smll, simple old SLRs like my Nikon Fs.
Cheers,
R.
And it's not 'digital v. film' that worries me, but rather, 'huge bloated SLRs (film or digital) with 43 modes vs. small simple Leicas'. Or for that matter, smll, simple old SLRs like my Nikon Fs.
Cheers,
R.
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Andy Kibber
Well-known
Curse those modern SLRs, digital or otherwise! So bloated! And they cycle through their 43 modes every ten seconds on that timer! There's just no way to use such a camera simply. It forces you to use every feature and constantly change the settings. It's simply not possible to set the exposure or focus manually, if that's your cup of tea.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Andy,
You mean they aren't bloated?
And if I accidentally press the wrong combination of buttons, I end up in Low Light Sport Bokeh mode, and have to check with an instruction book to get out of it. Never mind super-floppy-manual-focus mode.
Nah: I'll stick with cameras that do what I want, when I want.
Cheers,
R.
sig
Well-known
I agree, stick to the camera you are able to use.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I picked up a friend's D700 the other day and without the instruction booklet was able to figure out very quickly how to shoot it manually ... hmm let me see, press the mode button, rotate the command dial!
Oh look! ... a big 'M' has just come up on the information LCD ... perhaps that means manual? But what now ... oh yes, set the aperture and shutter speed to get the correct meter reading and press the shutter ... after focusing manually of course!
'DUH!'
kshapero
South Florida Man
I have been thru a spate of DSLR's (D700, etc.) and there is no joy for me in using them, but damn they take great photos. Give me an all manual RF or SLR with maybe a light meter or not and I am happy, but after 35 years, I am still learning the art.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I picked up a friend's D700 the other day and without the instruction booklet was able to figure out very quickly how to shoot it manually ... hmm let me see, press the mode button, rotate the command dial!
Oh look! ... a big 'M' has just come up on the information LCD ... perhaps that means manual? But what now ... oh yes, set the aperture and shutter speed to get the correct meter reading and press the shutter ... after focusing manually of course!
'DUH!'
Now press the wrong two buttons simultaneously, as you pick the camera up or put it down... The thing is so covered in buttons it's hard not to, sometimes.
Cheers,
R.