Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Do I like the camera .... very much.
Do I like the colour rendering ... not so much!
Personally I feel it falls well short of the file quality and colour rendering I was getting from my Merrills and this has become a problem because although I shoot a minimal amount of colour when I do it needs to please me. Also I feel the black and white conversions are lacking compared to the Merrills ... occasionally it seems OK but often I am a little nonplussed and no amount of faffing about in LR seems to find that sweet spot that was so easy to achieve with my Sigma foveon files.
Currently I am seriously considering trading it on Monochrom because the images in the MM thread have always really impressed me and black and white really is my thing. I shied away from the MM because the price is outrageous and it lacks the niceties of live view and several other features that drew me to the 240.
Financially it's achievable and if I did go this way the Sigmas would be for colour, which is their strong suit, and all black and white duties could be handled by the MM. My head is well and truly spinning!
Do I like the colour rendering ... not so much!
Personally I feel it falls well short of the file quality and colour rendering I was getting from my Merrills and this has become a problem because although I shoot a minimal amount of colour when I do it needs to please me. Also I feel the black and white conversions are lacking compared to the Merrills ... occasionally it seems OK but often I am a little nonplussed and no amount of faffing about in LR seems to find that sweet spot that was so easy to achieve with my Sigma foveon files.
Currently I am seriously considering trading it on Monochrom because the images in the MM thread have always really impressed me and black and white really is my thing. I shied away from the MM because the price is outrageous and it lacks the niceties of live view and several other features that drew me to the 240.
Financially it's achievable and if I did go this way the Sigmas would be for colour, which is their strong suit, and all black and white duties could be handled by the MM. My head is well and truly spinning!
Richard G
Veteran
Having decided to stick with my M9-P and not get the M240, and then to get the Monochrom to cement my yesterday's user status, perversely, I would say that maybe it's better to make the M240 work for you. By all accounts you can do as well with black and white using the M240. Of course, I was not convinced. If you want the colour from the Merrills you can have that now, ignoring the colour capability of the M. And the live view and lens adapters etc gives you a good package. And there's the sensor issues with the pre-M240 cameras. And there's the better buffer for your gallery work with the M240.
On the M9 black and white thread you started there are some stunning black and whites. Much as I love the Monochrom it's hard to say you 'need' it. A couple of mine in your thread are pictures I thought were from the Monochrom.
Having said all of the above there are a few shots I have from the Monochrom that still make me weak at the knees. Maybe if I had had the M9 that day it would have been the same. I doubt it. And the other crucial thing about the Monochrom is that it can only do black and white. It is amazing what a concentrator of energy that fact is. I miss a lot of wonderful colour shots, but I hardly give them a thought as they simply are impossible. Right now though I am staring at my Ilford Galerie Prints out of the Epson 3880 of Rollei Retro 25 negatives exposed in a Leica II through a Nickel plated Elmar with some front element haze and I am even leaving the Monochrom at home some days and just taking the tiny Leica II.
On the M9 black and white thread you started there are some stunning black and whites. Much as I love the Monochrom it's hard to say you 'need' it. A couple of mine in your thread are pictures I thought were from the Monochrom.
Having said all of the above there are a few shots I have from the Monochrom that still make me weak at the knees. Maybe if I had had the M9 that day it would have been the same. I doubt it. And the other crucial thing about the Monochrom is that it can only do black and white. It is amazing what a concentrator of energy that fact is. I miss a lot of wonderful colour shots, but I hardly give them a thought as they simply are impossible. Right now though I am staring at my Ilford Galerie Prints out of the Epson 3880 of Rollei Retro 25 negatives exposed in a Leica II through a Nickel plated Elmar with some front element haze and I am even leaving the Monochrom at home some days and just taking the tiny Leica II.
sebastel
coarse art umbrascriptor
well, it's your choice, but you may want to consider waiting until a new, type 240 based 'monochrom' becomes available.
however, nobody outside leica currently knows whether it will come at all, and if so, at which price.
owning (and using) a monochrom, i'd say it's a digital camera giving nice files, but i still prefer film based leicas. as soon as it comes to digital, this one i my first choice, though.
so, all in all - if you've got the dough easily, or you find a good offer, i'd say go for it.
cheers,
sebastian
however, nobody outside leica currently knows whether it will come at all, and if so, at which price.
owning (and using) a monochrom, i'd say it's a digital camera giving nice files, but i still prefer film based leicas. as soon as it comes to digital, this one i my first choice, though.
so, all in all - if you've got the dough easily, or you find a good offer, i'd say go for it.
cheers,
sebastian
dave lackey
Veteran
Keith,
As a diehard Leica user, you may find this question odd. In the real world of producing images, whether for fun or profit, and forgetting about gear form and aesthetics, would you really say that the D700 or later DSLR would perform just as well or better than the 240 (I hate that model name!)???
I have reached my own opinion.)
As a diehard Leica user, you may find this question odd. In the real world of producing images, whether for fun or profit, and forgetting about gear form and aesthetics, would you really say that the D700 or later DSLR would perform just as well or better than the 240 (I hate that model name!)???
I have reached my own opinion.
)
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Just Do It and be Done !
The Monochrom for your B&W tres Atmospheric Noir
And your Merrills for that Foveon Magic... Colour
Best of Luck in yourdecision making
Thanks Helen .... I knew you'd be in favour! LOL
Late this year I stop work (hopefully) and intend really throwing myself into my photography .... I would like to do a photo book based around rural artists and their art.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Keith,
As a diehard Leica user, you may find this question odd. In the real world of producing images, whether for fun or profit, and forgetting about gear form and aesthetics, would you really say that the D700 or later DSLR would perform just as well or better than the 240 (I hate that model name!)???
I have reached my own opinion.
The D700 is a great camera and I will continue to use it where it shines which is in galleries (openings) and live events. in this situation it has no peers IMO.
dave lackey
Veteran
The D700 is a great camera and I will continue to use it where it shines which is in galleries (openings) and live events. in this situation it has no peers IMO.
Yes, I agree. But the question is why go through the angst with the 240?
If I had as much difficulty with the M3 or M6, I would have sold them long ago.
By the way, I agree with Helen!
)
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
At this stage I'm really just thinking out loud. i guess my thoughts have stemmed from the weekend when I used the 240 to shoot a gallery opening and came away thinking I should have used the Nikon.
tuanvinh2000
Well-known
i'm not sure if you want to improve your BW conversion workflow or it's more because of what the lighting condition the photos were taken in, that also affects the BW conversion. i doubt a MM will improve your BW photos conversion because guys on the MM thread do it well, prob ask them what their BW conversion workflow is? I use a A7 + M mount lens and BW Conversion from those files are stellar under the right light (soft light). under harsh light, the plastic super sharp look comes out.
keep hold on to your M and work on the lightroom skill. even with a MM, you still need a good workflow too.
keep hold on to your M and work on the lightroom skill. even with a MM, you still need a good workflow too.
dave lackey
Veteran
Ha! Happens to me all the time wishing I had a different camera, or lens, or film, or something.
I like Thorsten Overgaard's suggestion, use the camera you love. Right now I have too many choices but the top three in no particular order are:
1. M3/M6
2. Nikon F6
3. Nikon F compact bodies
And, yes, I am about to return to sports shooting for profit. That means the the Nikon D 2/3 bodies.
I really can't imagine anything else if I could even afford it but the Monochrom is certainly a dream of mine too.
Good luck in sorting it out but I think you already know where you are headed!
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Keith and see I find those all to be reason to by the MM. Rumors are the new MM will have all those things you like.
Good luck....
MCTuomey
Veteran
Keith, after eight months with the M 240 you haven't got your workflow down to where you're really pleased with the output? Time to sell or trade it ...
jarski
Veteran
Hmm but colors are what you make them. Perhaps study a bit Lightroom and make a preset for the starting point and save time, individual adjust when needed.
lynnb
Veteran
interesting you should say the Sigma's strong suit is colour Keith, considering how good the bw conversions are. The Sigma colour must be very good because your D700 is no slouch in the colour dept.
I'm thinking jarski's suggestion is worth experimenting with. Can you describe your perception of the M240's colour compared to the Sigma, in terms of colour temperature and saturation, to help you play around with Lr's develop settings to get it comparable?
Might be worth taking same photo with both cameras, for your preferred colour subjects (portrait skin tones?), and then comparing both files A/B in LR, playing around to get the 240 in the same ballpark.
I'm thinking jarski's suggestion is worth experimenting with. Can you describe your perception of the M240's colour compared to the Sigma, in terms of colour temperature and saturation, to help you play around with Lr's develop settings to get it comparable?
Might be worth taking same photo with both cameras, for your preferred colour subjects (portrait skin tones?), and then comparing both files A/B in LR, playing around to get the 240 in the same ballpark.
thompsonks
Well-known
IMO this is a time to stay in a holding pattern and see what's coming. Leica's current models have pretty severe limitations, but things could get better.
Agree with you about 240 color. And like M9, MM may face sensor corrosion problems.
I've checked it out, and A7r's larger sensor + Leica lenses, converted to BW, is a match in IQ to my MM in 15x22.5" prints. And there's the advantage of being able to use the BW conversion sliders to rebalance the tones in a BW image. But the A7r has its famously vibrating shutter.
While I love my MM's IQ, it's very hard, esp. with wide angles, to frame an image correctly without Live View. And I have my fingers crossed about its sensor.
So with every current offering weak in some important respect, I'd wait for either (a) the promised/imagined 240 Monochrom, or (b) a newer generation Sony body, with rumors of an A7rll or a 50mp version.
My own holding pattern is MM for BW (98%), and A7 w/ Leica lenses for a little bit of color. Yours might as well be 240 and Merrills.
Truth be told, we can make some very nice photographs while practicing gear-patience.
Kirk
Agree with you about 240 color. And like M9, MM may face sensor corrosion problems.
I've checked it out, and A7r's larger sensor + Leica lenses, converted to BW, is a match in IQ to my MM in 15x22.5" prints. And there's the advantage of being able to use the BW conversion sliders to rebalance the tones in a BW image. But the A7r has its famously vibrating shutter.
While I love my MM's IQ, it's very hard, esp. with wide angles, to frame an image correctly without Live View. And I have my fingers crossed about its sensor.
So with every current offering weak in some important respect, I'd wait for either (a) the promised/imagined 240 Monochrom, or (b) a newer generation Sony body, with rumors of an A7rll or a 50mp version.
My own holding pattern is MM for BW (98%), and A7 w/ Leica lenses for a little bit of color. Yours might as well be 240 and Merrills.
Truth be told, we can make some very nice photographs while practicing gear-patience.
Kirk
ferider
Veteran
Hi Keith,
try an IR filter. For me it makes a noticeable difference.
I actually really like the M's color rendering with classic lenses in particular, my Nikkor LTM set and the rigid Summicron, for instance. But then I like subtle colors.
And for B+W, the M's BWfilm/yellow -> jpg filter often does a better job than me in LR or PS, out of the box. Again, with lenses from the 50s in particular.
Then again, if you don't like the M, too much cash in a camera, trade or sell it before the model 241 is released
Roland.
try an IR filter. For me it makes a noticeable difference.
I actually really like the M's color rendering with classic lenses in particular, my Nikkor LTM set and the rigid Summicron, for instance. But then I like subtle colors.
And for B+W, the M's BWfilm/yellow -> jpg filter often does a better job than me in LR or PS, out of the box. Again, with lenses from the 50s in particular.
Then again, if you don't like the M, too much cash in a camera, trade or sell it before the model 241 is released
Roland.
Michael Markey
Veteran
Keith ... I`m with you on this.
I can`t help comparing black and white shots to my Merrill files and the only ones which do it for me are the MM files.
Both expense and the attendant problems associated with the pre 240 cameras however are a cause for concern.
I can`t help comparing black and white shots to my Merrill files and the only ones which do it for me are the MM files.
Both expense and the attendant problems associated with the pre 240 cameras however are a cause for concern.
back alley
IMAGES
from looking at images only...the monochrom is the only digital leica that appeals to me.
f16sunshine
Moderator
Hi Keith,
try an IR filter. For me it makes a noticeable difference.
I actually really like the M's color rendering with classic lenses in particular, my Nikkor LTM set and the rigid Summicron, for instance. But then I like subtle colors.
And for B+W, the M's BWfilm/yellow -> jpg filter often does a better job than me in LR or PS, out of the box. Again, with lenses from the 50s in particular.
Then again, if you don't like the M, too much cash in a camera, trade or sell it before the model 241 is released
Roland.
This!
IR filters seem to help all digital sensors. Especially short register models RF and mirror less cameras with thin/weak filters.
Everyone became allergic to the idea from "M8 trauma".
I sold all mine but now wish I had them back!
ferider
Veteran
Next to the M8, the M (240) is the most IR sensitive short register camera, I believe, Andy. Per Jaap it goes: M8 50%, M9 80%, M240 70% of IR suppression.