dpetrzelka
Well-known
I just picked up a used Epson 2200 for printing my B+W images at home. I'm running a dual G4, Photoshop CS2 to the 2200. I'm still getting green casts to many of my prints.
I'd be very interested to hear about others workflow for printing B+W images.
Favorite paper?
Printer settings?
I've been reading many online guides, and ColorBytes Rip sounds like it solves all the problems, but is way out of my range for now.
I'd be very interested to hear about others workflow for printing B+W images.
Favorite paper?
Printer settings?
I've been reading many online guides, and ColorBytes Rip sounds like it solves all the problems, but is way out of my range for now.
mrtoml
Mancunian
Carlos Cruz
Established
What profile you save the images RGB or CMYK, for printing you should use subtractive system, this is how printers see colours( all colours add up to black, RGB is for colour lights which together will give you white) Hope my 0.02 cents might save you 50$
ffttklackdedeng
Registered User
Green cast under daylight sounds like metamorism (caused by the color inks which the default printer driver will also use for b&w prints).
Cheapest go would be to try 'black only printing' (BO) which uses only the black ink of the set.
If you don't like it (some like it and some not, kind of like the 'like grain/hate grain' groups) then either one of the RIPs or custom inks (e.g from MIS).
Congrats on the printer btw.
Cheapest go would be to try 'black only printing' (BO) which uses only the black ink of the set.
If you don't like it (some like it and some not, kind of like the 'like grain/hate grain' groups) then either one of the RIPs or custom inks (e.g from MIS).
Congrats on the printer btw.
nightfly
Well-known
I'm a big fan of black only on my Epson 1280.
Here's the guru of it (and lots of tips for newer Epson printers):
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
Pros: no color shifts, easy workflow
Cons: grainy to some
I like grain and I like easy so it works for me. With medium format images I get really beautiful tonality and gradiation. With 35mm it's a bit more gritty but I dig that look.
Here's the guru of it (and lots of tips for newer Epson printers):
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
Pros: no color shifts, easy workflow
Cons: grainy to some
I like grain and I like easy so it works for me. With medium format images I get really beautiful tonality and gradiation. With 35mm it's a bit more gritty but I dig that look.
furcafe
Veteran
This may not apply to you, but I also thought my B&W prints w/the 2200 were looking a little cool (& slightly cyan), but noticed that they did noticeably "warm" up after a day or so once the ink had a chance to really dry out. Don't know about the ambient humidity in Seattle, but I remember from my college days in Berkeley that stuff took a lot longer to dry out than I was used to on the E. Coast.
FYI, I'm using the standard Epson inks on Enhanced Matte.
FYI, I'm using the standard Epson inks on Enhanced Matte.
dpetrzelka said:
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
As suggested, pick up the Quadtone RIP and get yourself a set of the MIS inks from http://www.inksupply.com - I am using their inks on the R320 and it's seriously the best looking B&W prints I've ever seen out of any inkjet.
I've tried previous Epsons and HP (8450) and with their inkset, there's no colour cast present at all..
Dave
I've tried previous Epsons and HP (8450) and with their inkset, there's no colour cast present at all..
Dave
R
rich815
Guest
Quadtone RIP or BO (both links above).
Daniel Kreithen
Member
The answer is to 1) only use matte papers, and b) have a custom profile made for your printer/ink/paper combination. You can have this done cheaply here:
http://www.inkjetart.com/custom_profiles/
and other places (use Google for a little while to discover other places that will provide a similar service)
I have no experience or connection to these people, but I've been using a similar profile created by a different firm that is currently not accepting more business. The profile should give you neutral black and white prints, but only under a single type of lighting source (tungsten lighting, for example). You will notice a slight color shift when viewed under a different color temperature: this is metamerism. I suppose you could have a different profile made for various color temperatures, but you would still experience a color shift under the non-optimal viewing color temperature.
http://www.inkjetart.com/custom_profiles/
and other places (use Google for a little while to discover other places that will provide a similar service)
I have no experience or connection to these people, but I've been using a similar profile created by a different firm that is currently not accepting more business. The profile should give you neutral black and white prints, but only under a single type of lighting source (tungsten lighting, for example). You will notice a slight color shift when viewed under a different color temperature: this is metamerism. I suppose you could have a different profile made for various color temperatures, but you would still experience a color shift under the non-optimal viewing color temperature.
mrtoml
Mancunian
metamerism
metamerism
Quadtone RIP and black only (BO) get around the colour shifts in different lighting by eliminating the inks that cause this metamerism (ie yellow) from the mix. Having colour profiles made doesn't do this. RIPs give you total control over the inks used in the monochrome printing process allowing you to get rid of casts and metamerism but there is potentially a lot of work involved. This also works on glossy papers, not just matte although the 2200 is notorious for bronzing on glossy papers.
If you don't want these issues in an 'out of the box' solution you should get a 2400 and use advanced black and white mode. The 2200 cannot produce consistent monochrome prints very easily without BO, quad ink or RIP solutions. I use advanced black and white mode on an epson 7800 and get great consistent mono results all the time with different papers.
metamerism
Quadtone RIP and black only (BO) get around the colour shifts in different lighting by eliminating the inks that cause this metamerism (ie yellow) from the mix. Having colour profiles made doesn't do this. RIPs give you total control over the inks used in the monochrome printing process allowing you to get rid of casts and metamerism but there is potentially a lot of work involved. This also works on glossy papers, not just matte although the 2200 is notorious for bronzing on glossy papers.
If you don't want these issues in an 'out of the box' solution you should get a 2400 and use advanced black and white mode. The 2200 cannot produce consistent monochrome prints very easily without BO, quad ink or RIP solutions. I use advanced black and white mode on an epson 7800 and get great consistent mono results all the time with different papers.
dpetrzelka
Well-known
I just tried the QuadTone RIP, and am pretty impressed.
Using standard Epson Inks, the QuadTone RIP and both Koday Prof. Semi Gloss, or some cheapo Matte Photo papers I'm getting pretty neutral prints. Neither Sun nor indoor lighting cause as strong of metamerism as the standard Epson drivers with these same papers did.
Next I'll try some of the higher end Epson matte papers.
Also, someone recommended Ilford Gallery Smooth Pearl paper for really nice B+W, as well as sepia toned prints.
Using standard Epson Inks, the QuadTone RIP and both Koday Prof. Semi Gloss, or some cheapo Matte Photo papers I'm getting pretty neutral prints. Neither Sun nor indoor lighting cause as strong of metamerism as the standard Epson drivers with these same papers did.
Next I'll try some of the higher end Epson matte papers.
Also, someone recommended Ilford Gallery Smooth Pearl paper for really nice B+W, as well as sepia toned prints.
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mrtoml
Mancunian
papers
papers
I use epson smooth pearl a lot, but it does bronze with the 2200. You can spray it with UV protector (such as printguard) which eliminates a lot of the bronzing. It is not as archival as the epson premium paper (I believe it's OK for 30 years or so).
I would also recommend epson premium semigloss and epson luster if you like this sort of paper.
A lot of people use epson enhanced matte as a cheap proofing paper.
Non-epson paper I like would be hahnemuhle photo rag (matte) and the new innova fiba papers (especially the semimatte) but these are expensive.
Have fun.
papers
I use epson smooth pearl a lot, but it does bronze with the 2200. You can spray it with UV protector (such as printguard) which eliminates a lot of the bronzing. It is not as archival as the epson premium paper (I believe it's OK for 30 years or so).
I would also recommend epson premium semigloss and epson luster if you like this sort of paper.
A lot of people use epson enhanced matte as a cheap proofing paper.
Non-epson paper I like would be hahnemuhle photo rag (matte) and the new innova fiba papers (especially the semimatte) but these are expensive.
Have fun.
J. Borger
Well-known
QTR + matte paper is the only way to go with the Epson 2200.
I spend a lot of money on paper and inkt to get good results (=without bronzing) on any other paper than matte with the 2200 and it did not work out...... so i finaly gave up and bought the R2400 and the difference is day and night: this machine prints B&W and color on any paper straight out of the box!
B&W on matte paper with Quadtonerip gives excelent results with the 2200 however.
I spend a lot of money on paper and inkt to get good results (=without bronzing) on any other paper than matte with the 2200 and it did not work out...... so i finaly gave up and bought the R2400 and the difference is day and night: this machine prints B&W and color on any paper straight out of the box!
B&W on matte paper with Quadtonerip gives excelent results with the 2200 however.
mrtoml
Mancunian
I agree that the 2400 is head and shoulders above the 2200 for an out of the box solution.
However, don't give up on glossy papers even with bronzing. A) If you can get hold of the spray it does help a lot - depends on the paper - and you get a much better DMax; and B) you can't see the bronzing framed behind glass (but then it is difficult to tell the difference between matte and glossy prints behind glass)
However, don't give up on glossy papers even with bronzing. A) If you can get hold of the spray it does help a lot - depends on the paper - and you get a much better DMax; and B) you can't see the bronzing framed behind glass (but then it is difficult to tell the difference between matte and glossy prints behind glass)
dpetrzelka
Well-known
Mark T.--
What spray to remedy bronzing issues?
also
What is your prefered Matte photo paper?
I don't plan to give up on the 2200- I got a great price on one off of Craigslist, and plan to use it for color and B+W. So far I'm pretty happy with it. Thanks for the tips you've provided!
thanks
What spray to remedy bronzing issues?
also
What is your prefered Matte photo paper?
I don't plan to give up on the 2200- I got a great price on one off of Craigslist, and plan to use it for color and B+W. So far I'm pretty happy with it. Thanks for the tips you've provided!
thanks
mrtoml
Mancunian
Spray:dpetrzelka said:
In the UK it is called Lyson Print Guard. It comes as an aerosol spray.
In the US I think it is called print shield or something like that.
Another option some people try is to print on matte paper and varnish the prints to make them glossy.
There are two yahoo groups you should look at for this kind of information:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/QuadtoneRIP/
The first one is pretty essential reading if you are starting out. The second one is good if you plan to get heavily into QTR.
With respect to matte paper I think the best all round paper is Hahnemuhle Photo Rag (available in 2 weights 188 and 300gsm I think). I also like Hahnemuhle Torchon for its texture, but this is an acquired taste for many. Innova also make some pretty nice matte papers - a bit cheaper too. I also like epson watercolour radiant white, but not many people use this as far as I can tell. The best thing is to get a sample pack of papers from each manufacturer - there are lots of websites in the US where you can order these. They usually include a few sheets of each of their art papers for you to try out until you find the ones you like. If you scan the yahoo group above you will quickly find the enormous range of papers and techniques out there that people are using.
bill vann
Newbie
UT7 inks
UT7 inks
i use UT7 inks from inksupply mentioned earlier.
if you're not going to print color ( i use 2 printers) you can't beat black inks.
fwiw i haven't even bothered to get the cheapo $50 rip desoite the rave reviews as i get great results with no rip.
they say you can swap out the UT7 black inks and Epson color inks back and forth but i dedicated the 2200 to B&W.
i use lots of papers for unique looks, including some hade made papers from India that i print my IR on with truly interesting results
bill
UT7 inks
i use UT7 inks from inksupply mentioned earlier.
if you're not going to print color ( i use 2 printers) you can't beat black inks.
fwiw i haven't even bothered to get the cheapo $50 rip desoite the rave reviews as i get great results with no rip.
they say you can swap out the UT7 black inks and Epson color inks back and forth but i dedicated the 2200 to B&W.
i use lots of papers for unique looks, including some hade made papers from India that i print my IR on with truly interesting results
bill