robklurfield
eclipse
After having not done any printing in many moons, I've just started using my 2200 again recently. Not sure what's happened (operator brain damage?), but I can't seem to remember how to get this thing to print in B&W properly. I'm working with some images scanned from Neopan 1600 by my Epson V700. I can't get them to print in straight B&W going from Aperture or PS Elements 7. Obviously, there is something real simple in my set up that is wrong, but I keep getting prints with a horrible purple cast from monochrome files. Not sure how this happens when I think my profile should be printing only using the two black inks. I've saved the files I'm testing in both JPEG and TIFF. I've been using the same profile I was employing for B&W the last time I used the printer (it worked fine then). I'm an idiot when it comes to digital workflow so any advice would be appreciated including links to any online tutorials for the technologically challenged. I have Powerbook G4 running OS 10.4.11. The version of PSE I'm using came with the scanner which was new two weeks ago. I've never used Silverfast. My B&W's look fine for the web, but no good when printing. HELP!
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Using profiles won't make it print with just the blacks. You have to use printer color management, not a profile, and set the driver to black only printing. This is for using the driver that comes with the printer to print from photoshop.
I used a 2200 for many years till it died last year. The ABSOLUTE best BW prints come from using the ColorByte ImagePrint RIP software, which is a third party print driver. I was such a perfectionist that I hated the BW prints I got until I tried IP. Killed me paying $500 for software but it paid for itself in print sales.
I used a 2200 for many years till it died last year. The ABSOLUTE best BW prints come from using the ColorByte ImagePrint RIP software, which is a third party print driver. I was such a perfectionist that I hated the BW prints I got until I tried IP. Killed me paying $500 for software but it paid for itself in print sales.
raindog61
Established
Rob, try desaturating the files. Or, convert the file to greyscale rather than an rgb file.
Good luck,
Harry.
Good luck,
Harry.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Those won't solve his problem. If you don't set up the driver correctly with this printer, you get a magenta cast. I know from my experience owning the model he has. This happens with greyscale and completely desaturated RGB files alike. The problem is Epson's driver wasn't really designed to print completely neutral BW prints, it was designed for making color prints. You can get decent results by jumping through some hoops and incredible results by spending a fortune for a good driver. I'm using the R2400 now, which has a much improved driver that does make neutral BW prints without the expensive RIP software I bought for my 2200.
robklurfield
eclipse
Already had them converted to greyscale during scanning. Haven't tried desaturating yet. will give that a shot. Harry, thanks for the tips.
robklurfield
eclipse
Hi Chris, thanks for the tips. a $500 software fix is out of the question for me right now (maybe ever). I suspect that you're right on target re the driver. I'll have to find out what's available for free or cheap. I have a lot of respect for your work, but I'm not trying to make a living at this and can't justify that investment.
The really weird thing is that I never had this problem before and don't know at what point I introduced some new variable.
I've also read about color management being a big issue, but I can't figure out where it is that I'm supposed disable the printer's color management so it doesn't override the choices I make in either Aperture or PSE's print menus. I've tried using "Let PSE control color mgmt" and "No color mgmt", but I suspect neither choice is being implemented because there's some print profile choice outside of the PSE/Aperture interface that is overriding my choice. If anyone knows what or where OUTSIDE OF PSE or APERTURE I do the disabling of the printer taking control of color management, I think that might be the fix. In PSE's print menu, there's a little "!" reminder that asks if you've done this. I simply don't know where to go to do it. Anyone out there??? Thanks.
I am convinced that there is some silly, simple solution to this that requires nothing more than clicking the right radio button or drop-down menu selection. I'm just too dumb at the moment to find it.
The really weird thing is that I never had this problem before and don't know at what point I introduced some new variable.
I've also read about color management being a big issue, but I can't figure out where it is that I'm supposed disable the printer's color management so it doesn't override the choices I make in either Aperture or PSE's print menus. I've tried using "Let PSE control color mgmt" and "No color mgmt", but I suspect neither choice is being implemented because there's some print profile choice outside of the PSE/Aperture interface that is overriding my choice. If anyone knows what or where OUTSIDE OF PSE or APERTURE I do the disabling of the printer taking control of color management, I think that might be the fix. In PSE's print menu, there's a little "!" reminder that asks if you've done this. I simply don't know where to go to do it. Anyone out there??? Thanks.
I am convinced that there is some silly, simple solution to this that requires nothing more than clicking the right radio button or drop-down menu selection. I'm just too dumb at the moment to find it.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
What harry told you won't work, as I noted above. Desaturating merely converts the file to a 3 channel greyscale where all three channels read the same density. Basically a greyscale image that takes up 3 times the space on your hard drive. You problem is one of color management with the printer. Just leave the image in greyscale.
If you want the printer to ONLY use the two black inks, you must do this:
In photoshop where you setup the print (print with preview) the profile you choose is either PRINTER COLOR MANAGEMENT or LET PRINTER DETERMINE COLORS (which you choose depends on the version of photoshop you use...they're the same thing but the wording was changed)
Then hit print. The printer's driver dialogue will come up. If you use a mac, go to the PRINT SETTINGS menu and choose BLACK ONLY. in the COLOR MANAGEMENT menu choose Color Controls. If there's a choice..its been a while since I did this since I used that other driver i bought for many years. There may not be a color management choice since you're using black only.
Then hit PRINT and you're done. print comes out with black and light black inks only used and hopefully matches your monitor IF you calibrated it right.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Ahh, Rob, you responded right when I did, lol. I see you are using a mac. I didn't notice when I first responded that you use Elements instead of the full version of photoshop but I think that the stuff I said to do is the same in elements (been a while since I messed with Elements...I have a friend who uses it)
robklurfield
eclipse
A fellow insomniac? Chris, I'll have to try this when I wake for real, again, in a few hours. I think the thing I've been screwing up is using Print with Preview. That must be why I'm seeing that dialogue box. Thanks for the tips.
I am using a Mac for printing, though I'm typing on a windows box right now not more than two feet away from the Powerbook. The money I'm not going to spend on that $500 on that driver software will likely go into a new iMac 27" where I can actually justify buying and using a Spider or similar gizmo for calibrating my monitor.
Again, thanks for the help. And, either go to sleep or don't wake up so early.
I am using a Mac for printing, though I'm typing on a windows box right now not more than two feet away from the Powerbook. The money I'm not going to spend on that $500 on that driver software will likely go into a new iMac 27" where I can actually justify buying and using a Spider or similar gizmo for calibrating my monitor.
Again, thanks for the help. And, either go to sleep or don't wake up so early.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
A fellow insomniac? Chris, I'll have to try this when I wake for real, again, in a few hours. I think the thing I've been screwing up is using Print with Preview. That must be why I'm seeing that dialogue box. Thanks for the tips.
I am using a Mac for printing, though I'm typing on a windows box right now not more than two feet away from the Powerbook. The money I'm not going to spend on that $500 on that driver software will likely go into a new iMac 27" where I can actually justify buying and using a Spider or similar gizmo for calibrating my monitor.
Again, thanks for the help. And, either go to sleep or don't wake up so early.
Me too. Its 6am and I can't believe I am awake :bang: I'm going to email you tomorrow, I have some other stuff you might want that'll help but i'm too tired to dig up the files now.
RichC
Well-known
Hi Rob - from a fellow Epson 2100 user (that's what the 2200 is called in the UK). We use the Epson 2100 professionally in our studio and get very accurate colours and neutral greys using the standard Epson driver, and we have a lot of experience with colour fidelity and printers.
You can print using only black ink - but while this avoids colour casts it (a) does nothing to ensure that the tonal range of your print matches what you see on-screen (assuming there is a mismatch) and (b) produces low-resolution prints that look "noisy" and have a reduced tonal range compared with prints using all the inks.
So, it's best to use all the inks - the printer was never designed to produce high-quality prints using just the black cartridge. As Chris says, the Epson 2200 is not the best B+W printer (in computer years, it's definitely a pensioner now!). That said, it is possible to get reasonable B+W prints.
You're on the right track in trying to stop the printer driver from using its default automatic settings and instead set a profile in PSE (or whatever you use for printing). If you do that and, importantly, use the genuine Epson ink ad paper (and of course the matching Epson printer profile for that paper) you should get neutral prints.
The Epson 2200, unlike its successors such as the 2400, does show metamerism and "bronzing"). Metamerism is a colour shift (usually red or green) of the ink when seen under different light sources: the Epson paper profiles are optimised for noon daylight, so prints may look a bit "off" when viewed under, day, artificial lights. Bronzing is a slight metallic reddish-brown sheen seen predominantly on dark areas of the print. Both effects can be largely eliminated by using matt paper, which absorbs the ink particles and has a textured surface (which masks the effects). Gloss paper, having opposite properties, shows these faults readily, and is best avoided with Epson 2200. A good compromise is Epson Premium Semi-gloss paper, which is our preference.
As to how to set up your printer driver and PSE, see http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1264101&postcount=4. The printer driver link is for Windows XP, but here are links for OS X 10.4 and 10.5: http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps10_print/ps10_print_2.htm, http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps10_print/ps10_print_3.htm).
I've never used PSE (I'm a Photoshop user), but the principle of using a paper profile remains the same. Here are Photoshop colour-management links - hopefully, setting up PSE is similar: http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps10_print/ps10_print_1.htm, http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps11_colour/ps11_1.htm). If not, I'm sure there's plenty on the web if you google "color management, 'photoshop elements' ".
As I said in my RFF link above, Epson spend a lot of time and money getting their profiles right, so if implemented correctly and everything's working as it should, prints should match your screen closely.
Last, but not least, if you haven't done so already, you should profile your monitor - even Mac screens don't have accurate colour and brightness out of the box! Preferably, you want to do this with a hardware calibrator - e.g. a Pantone Huey or Colorvision SpyderPro. If you only take black and white photographs, monitor calibration is less crucial since you're not worrying about colour - but it's still important as your screen can be too bright or dark. (Unfortunately, Macs and PCs aren't aimed at photographers so monitors are set not for accuracy but to show bright, pleasing colours that most users will find attractive...)
Hope this helps...
You can print using only black ink - but while this avoids colour casts it (a) does nothing to ensure that the tonal range of your print matches what you see on-screen (assuming there is a mismatch) and (b) produces low-resolution prints that look "noisy" and have a reduced tonal range compared with prints using all the inks.
So, it's best to use all the inks - the printer was never designed to produce high-quality prints using just the black cartridge. As Chris says, the Epson 2200 is not the best B+W printer (in computer years, it's definitely a pensioner now!). That said, it is possible to get reasonable B+W prints.
You're on the right track in trying to stop the printer driver from using its default automatic settings and instead set a profile in PSE (or whatever you use for printing). If you do that and, importantly, use the genuine Epson ink ad paper (and of course the matching Epson printer profile for that paper) you should get neutral prints.
The Epson 2200, unlike its successors such as the 2400, does show metamerism and "bronzing"). Metamerism is a colour shift (usually red or green) of the ink when seen under different light sources: the Epson paper profiles are optimised for noon daylight, so prints may look a bit "off" when viewed under, day, artificial lights. Bronzing is a slight metallic reddish-brown sheen seen predominantly on dark areas of the print. Both effects can be largely eliminated by using matt paper, which absorbs the ink particles and has a textured surface (which masks the effects). Gloss paper, having opposite properties, shows these faults readily, and is best avoided with Epson 2200. A good compromise is Epson Premium Semi-gloss paper, which is our preference.
As to how to set up your printer driver and PSE, see http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1264101&postcount=4. The printer driver link is for Windows XP, but here are links for OS X 10.4 and 10.5: http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps10_print/ps10_print_2.htm, http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps10_print/ps10_print_3.htm).
I've never used PSE (I'm a Photoshop user), but the principle of using a paper profile remains the same. Here are Photoshop colour-management links - hopefully, setting up PSE is similar: http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps10_print/ps10_print_1.htm, http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps11_colour/ps11_1.htm). If not, I'm sure there's plenty on the web if you google "color management, 'photoshop elements' ".
As I said in my RFF link above, Epson spend a lot of time and money getting their profiles right, so if implemented correctly and everything's working as it should, prints should match your screen closely.
Last, but not least, if you haven't done so already, you should profile your monitor - even Mac screens don't have accurate colour and brightness out of the box! Preferably, you want to do this with a hardware calibrator - e.g. a Pantone Huey or Colorvision SpyderPro. If you only take black and white photographs, monitor calibration is less crucial since you're not worrying about colour - but it's still important as your screen can be too bright or dark. (Unfortunately, Macs and PCs aren't aimed at photographers so monitors are set not for accuracy but to show bright, pleasing colours that most users will find attractive...)
Hope this helps...
Last edited:
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Rob: you will find a wealth of information about b&w printing at Clayton Jones website http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm Clayton printed b&w for years using a 2200, Epson inks, and no RIP. Clayton & I have exchanged prints over the years. The articles range from a simple "state of the art" analysis to very in depth "how to do it". I think I have a mention and thanks somewhere in there.
Printing b&w with the 2200 using only the black ink (i.e. BO) is loved by some, disliked by others. I am one of those that sees a special "pop" in BO prints that cannot be duplicated. Also read the Nicholas Hartman interview from the link on Clayton's website.
The 2200 will make as good a print as any printer out there. So will its predecessor, the 1280. Epson has just make it easier with each new model. The 2400/2880/3800/3880 series make it even easier, close to automatic.
There is also a wealth of information at Paul Roark's website, www.PaulRoark.com Paul is one of the consummate tinkerers and master printers.
Printing b&w with the 2200 using only the black ink (i.e. BO) is loved by some, disliked by others. I am one of those that sees a special "pop" in BO prints that cannot be duplicated. Also read the Nicholas Hartman interview from the link on Clayton's website.
The 2200 will make as good a print as any printer out there. So will its predecessor, the 1280. Epson has just make it easier with each new model. The 2400/2880/3800/3880 series make it even easier, close to automatic.
There is also a wealth of information at Paul Roark's website, www.PaulRoark.com Paul is one of the consummate tinkerers and master printers.
gdi
Veteran
Bob and Rich - thanks for those links - good stuff there. I don't have much issue printing B&W on my 7600 without a RIP or special treatment, but still a lot of good info.
P
Peter S
Guest
Rob, Bob gave you good information. I used to have a 2200 as well and also had your problems. Printing became a lot easier with a shareware program called QTR. http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRoverview.html They ask for a USD 50 donation which you don't have to pay, but it is not that much and the program is more than worth it. Paul Roark's site is very good if you are interested into turning your 2200 into a dedicated B&W printer with custom inksets (http://www.inksupply.com/qn.cfm) . I like tinkering and converted my 2200 with the UT7 inkset, but to be very honest it was one big nightmare. I think you can get really good results, but it does require a lot of patience, tinkering etc., not for the fainthearted, but for some people a very nice and cost effective option. There was also something called Epson Graybalancer, but I do not remember how that worked. I think you should be fine with QTR for starters.
emraphoto
Veteran
a fine tuned 2200 will produce awesome b+w prints for the record.
Chris is heading you in the right direction. Black ink only. I tend to let CS manage the colors vs. the printer and get prints that I am very pleased with.
I am currently looking at bulk ink systems as I am worried I am going to go looking for cartridges one day to no avail. So i guess a thanks Peter is in order.
Chris is heading you in the right direction. Black ink only. I tend to let CS manage the colors vs. the printer and get prints that I am very pleased with.
I am currently looking at bulk ink systems as I am worried I am going to go looking for cartridges one day to no avail. So i guess a thanks Peter is in order.
jke
Well-known
I'll second the motion on QuadTone RIP. It is getting better in terms of user-friendliness, but once installed and up and running, it gives you are terrific work around the Epson driver to control what your B&W prints look like. Since Epson isn't supporting the 2200/2100 any longer with new paper profiles, I find QTR invaluable even for Epson's own papers. But it really works well on Hahnemuhle stuff, like my favorite Bamboo paper. You can not only control tone but gamma and some other things as well.
And if you've upgraded to Snow Leopard and experienced the frustration of Epson driver issues with that OS, then QTR is a pretty quick way to save some time and frustration. Just be sure to install the RIP and its patches in the proper order, etc.
And if you've upgraded to Snow Leopard and experienced the frustration of Epson driver issues with that OS, then QTR is a pretty quick way to save some time and frustration. Just be sure to install the RIP and its patches in the proper order, etc.
RichC
Well-known
We use a Lyson CIS, and are happy with the quality.
If you don't use a CIS frequently, they can be prone to clogging and drying. An alternative is to use refillable cartridges with high-quality ink. One of our printers isn't used often, so we bought a Lyson cartridge kit, and it shares the ink with our CIS. You simply top up the cartridges using a syringe every so often. The only downside is that you have to be sure to check the ink levels by looking at the cartridges regularly - because they're refillable, the software levels indicator is no longer accurate so it's possible to run a cartridge dry (and it takes bleeding ages to clean and prime the print head so it passes ink properly again!).
Apart from cost, there's another benefit in using Lyson or other high-quality ink: as I mentioned, the Epson 2200/2100 is an old printer, and its pigment inks are first generation. More-modern pigment ink formulations (whether from Lyson or for newer Epson printers) produce better results, minimising bronzing/metamerism, extending longevity, and increasing colour fidelity and tonal range.
The downside is that you will probably need to profile your printer since third-party ink is unlikely to print identically to Epson ink (though it should be close).
Last edited:
robklurfield
eclipse
wow! thanks everyone for all the tips. I will need to spend some time sorting through these and will report back.