Spanik
Well-known
Shoulder trouble is making me look at a digital system again. It just wont be possible to lug the medium format kit along for much longer.
Now I have a Nex3 and DP1 around and just can"t get along using the screen at the back to take pictures. Just to hard in the sun to squint at. And the loss of stability is also a negative for me.
Last weekend I got the oprtunity to look through a Fuji X-E1. And was that a disappointment. Just awful. It was inside, good light, light yellow painted walls. Well the walls looked white, the person in view was pale with red blotches, the wooden floor looked like a plain slab.
I had the X-Pro1 and X-T1 on my shortlist because I like the idea of knobs for the important functions. But if the evf of the X-E1 is a reference for those then I rather pass on them.
Are these of the better evf's around? Because if so then I'm going to a dslr. Problmen is that there isn't any decent shop around that has a wide choice of gear. Most have 1 main brand and a second with a small selection. So I'd like some opinions. Funds lack to just spend on a set and take the loss when it doesn't work out.
Now I have a Nex3 and DP1 around and just can"t get along using the screen at the back to take pictures. Just to hard in the sun to squint at. And the loss of stability is also a negative for me.
Last weekend I got the oprtunity to look through a Fuji X-E1. And was that a disappointment. Just awful. It was inside, good light, light yellow painted walls. Well the walls looked white, the person in view was pale with red blotches, the wooden floor looked like a plain slab.
I had the X-Pro1 and X-T1 on my shortlist because I like the idea of knobs for the important functions. But if the evf of the X-E1 is a reference for those then I rather pass on them.
Are these of the better evf's around? Because if so then I'm going to a dslr. Problmen is that there isn't any decent shop around that has a wide choice of gear. Most have 1 main brand and a second with a small selection. So I'd like some opinions. Funds lack to just spend on a set and take the loss when it doesn't work out.
YYV_146
Well-known
I would say that the Olympus EM-1 and Sony A7(r) have the best built-in EVFs as of April 2014. The Olympus VF-4 houses similar optics, and I think the magnification ratio is a bit bigger.
The Xpro-1's EVF is significantly poorer than the X-E1. Having a hybrid design means less space to house the panel and optics, and lower resolution/clarity compared to dedicated electronic viewfinders.
The X-T1's EVF is big (0.77x), but refresh rates and color rendition is still not on par with the E-M1. It may be a significant upgrade from the X-E1, though.
The Xpro-1's EVF is significantly poorer than the X-E1. Having a hybrid design means less space to house the panel and optics, and lower resolution/clarity compared to dedicated electronic viewfinders.
The X-T1's EVF is big (0.77x), but refresh rates and color rendition is still not on par with the E-M1. It may be a significant upgrade from the X-E1, though.
thegman
Veteran
Maybe consider a DSLR? No worries about refresh rates , resolution etc. It just works.
Even a crop -factor DSLR like a Nikon D7000 still has a pretty nice finder.
Even a crop -factor DSLR like a Nikon D7000 still has a pretty nice finder.
jesse1dog
Light Catcher
Could look at a Panasonic GX7!
yossarian123
Sam I Am
If weight is an issue then fuji isn't going to gain you that much over a regular DSLR. The bodies themselves may be lighter but the optics required to cover an APS C sensor increase the weight until there is really little difference between formats.
I'd suggest an EM1 (or EM10 if price is an issue). I've been really really happy with my em-5 kit, coming from a d700. The savings in size and weight has been enormous. I pack a body + 24/35/90 lenses and can use my smallest bag with room to spare.
I'd suggest an EM1 (or EM10 if price is an issue). I've been really really happy with my em-5 kit, coming from a d700. The savings in size and weight has been enormous. I pack a body + 24/35/90 lenses and can use my smallest bag with room to spare.
Spanik
Well-known
Weight reduction is compared to a 4-lens Mamiya 645ProTl kit. Anything short of a full option 1DX is going to beat that I guess. Dslr is certainly no problem. But I was really looking forward to a camera with speed dial and a diaphragm ring.
If the X-Pro1 viewer is worse than the X-E1 then I'll forget the X-Pro1.
My taste runs more into the wide side than tele. Normally I have with me 21-35-50(-90) (135 eq) and use them 15%-80%-5%.
If the X-Pro1 viewer is worse than the X-E1 then I'll forget the X-Pro1.
My taste runs more into the wide side than tele. Normally I have with me 21-35-50(-90) (135 eq) and use them 15%-80%-5%.
ray*j*gun
Veteran
I have a D7000 and its a stunningly good rig!!
willie_901
Veteran
Rubbish!
First, the OP was interested in weight. His shoulder hurts.
Second, the Fujinon 10-24/4 is one of the largest XF lens Fujifilm sells. Here are size comparisons with a D700 (not Nikon's largest DSLR) with the Nikkor 16-35/4. I would also compare with other Nikkor lenses, but I sold all my other Nikon gear and bought Fujifilm gear.
Third, the difference in weight is almost 1 KG.
At least half the reason I abandoned Nikon for Fujifilm was the weight advantage of the X system.
Attachments
kxl
Social Documentary
Are you shooting professionally? Then just get a DSLR.
For personal use, while a DSLR is obviously still an option, I'd say consider the Sony A7R - its EVF is top notch. Two concerns with it: the shutter sounds like a nail gun (someone here @ RFF said that and it is an accurate description - maybe not decibel-wise, but the two-step "ka-chang"). Second concern is that you like wide angles - Sony lens selection is somewhat limited right now, although you can obviously adapt other mounts (the beauty of CSC cameras). Zeiss offers the FE lenses in 35mm and 50mm, and certainly plenty of options in adapted 35mmm, 50mm and longer. Wider than 35mm is where you may have to do some research.
Sadly the Leica M240 uses a rebranded and much higher priced Olympus VF-2 which does not compare well at all with the Sony A7/7r EVF. You would think for what Leica is charging Leica would have used the best EVF available.
Stephen
Stephen
GaryLH
Veteran
If u are using legacy slr lenses the Sony a7/r should be fine.. Legacy rf lenses depends on the lens. In the past, the Sony lens support for good primes compared to consumer grade zooms has not been very good when u look at their Nex line. Their alpha line was much better but then they had a lot of Minolta rebadged lenses mixed in. There is a rumor about them announcing a lens roadmap. Since u have a preference for primes, Sony selection is weak there unless u plan to use legacy lenses.
I also disagree w/ this notion u don't gain much over a dslr in terms of weight. Dslr lenses tend to be bigger and heavier especially primes since there are not that many that were specifically designed for apsc sensor as opposed to ff. The bodies are also heavier.
The Fuji optical viewfinders are good w/ their electronic overlay. The evf of the xp1 is not state of the art to say the least, but IMHO they are more than ok. The evf on the xe1 was an improvement, the xe2 improved again and the xt1 is so far the best. The xt1 is suppose to be very good. Whether u like it enough or not depends on u. It has the biggest evf of any camera out there plus a unique dual image display that provides on one side the full image and the other side a enlarge image for focus assist which is great for using legacy lenses.
The other cameras w/ good evf would be the Panasonic gx7 and the Olympus omd series. I have a em5 and the gx7. Of the two I like the gx7 better myself in terms of handling characteristics, evf, and electronic shutter. The omd em1 and em5 w/ their in body 5 axis image stabilization is the absolute best setup out there. The control layout of em5 in terms of certain things like on/off switch is not the best but em1 fixed that or the Olympus menu system.
In terms sigma dp1, I have both the dp1 and 2 Merrill, I have a brightline ovf on both of them. The af focus confirmation led is easy to c from where the ovf is.. Personally I use both the LCD and ovf depending on the situation.
How good the evf has to be depends a lot on what u can live w/ and how u use the evf..
Gary
I also disagree w/ this notion u don't gain much over a dslr in terms of weight. Dslr lenses tend to be bigger and heavier especially primes since there are not that many that were specifically designed for apsc sensor as opposed to ff. The bodies are also heavier.
The Fuji optical viewfinders are good w/ their electronic overlay. The evf of the xp1 is not state of the art to say the least, but IMHO they are more than ok. The evf on the xe1 was an improvement, the xe2 improved again and the xt1 is so far the best. The xt1 is suppose to be very good. Whether u like it enough or not depends on u. It has the biggest evf of any camera out there plus a unique dual image display that provides on one side the full image and the other side a enlarge image for focus assist which is great for using legacy lenses.
The other cameras w/ good evf would be the Panasonic gx7 and the Olympus omd series. I have a em5 and the gx7. Of the two I like the gx7 better myself in terms of handling characteristics, evf, and electronic shutter. The omd em1 and em5 w/ their in body 5 axis image stabilization is the absolute best setup out there. The control layout of em5 in terms of certain things like on/off switch is not the best but em1 fixed that or the Olympus menu system.
In terms sigma dp1, I have both the dp1 and 2 Merrill, I have a brightline ovf on both of them. The af focus confirmation led is easy to c from where the ovf is.. Personally I use both the LCD and ovf depending on the situation.
How good the evf has to be depends a lot on what u can live w/ and how u use the evf..
Gary
There are small lenses...like the 18mm and 27mm.
whited3
Well-known
I have not tried the X-E1, but I think it would be worth your while to try the newer generation evfs based on paper stats alone. Still, (for me) full daylight challenges even the latest evfs' ability to display a contrasty & saturated view while my eyes are adjusted to full sun. They are adequate in the worst case, and fantastic in (many) other scenarios.
I use the A7, and assume X-e2, X-t1, and whatever the latest olympus is, are all on par with each other. A7, even with canon FD SLR lenses, is a huge weight savings over my full frame dslr. Even though I consider Fuji the better system in many respects, I went with the A7 simply for full frame; I also decided to use legacy glass (Canon FD; another FF +) rather than system lenses. I am extremely happy with the A7 & FD kit; I hesitate to carry it far less than my dslr and I've given up nothing to image quality. In fact, I've already sold off some of my dslr lenses and bought back more exotic legacy glass than I started with. Sorry to gush, the whole mirrorless kit is starting to hit a stride that I hadn't anticipated. I don't think you can go wrong with either Sony or Fuji.
I use the A7, and assume X-e2, X-t1, and whatever the latest olympus is, are all on par with each other. A7, even with canon FD SLR lenses, is a huge weight savings over my full frame dslr. Even though I consider Fuji the better system in many respects, I went with the A7 simply for full frame; I also decided to use legacy glass (Canon FD; another FF +) rather than system lenses. I am extremely happy with the A7 & FD kit; I hesitate to carry it far less than my dslr and I've given up nothing to image quality. In fact, I've already sold off some of my dslr lenses and bought back more exotic legacy glass than I started with. Sorry to gush, the whole mirrorless kit is starting to hit a stride that I hadn't anticipated. I don't think you can go wrong with either Sony or Fuji.
GaryLH
Veteran
If u cannot rent the potential system u are interested in, then buy from someone who has a good return policy then..
Check lensrental.com they rent both camera bodies and lenses for example. Amazon has one of the best return policies.
Gary
Check lensrental.com they rent both camera bodies and lenses for example. Amazon has one of the best return policies.
Gary
f16sunshine
Moderator
Man if you like using wides you owe it to yourself to try the xpro-1.
The Hybrid finder is fantastic for wides. Being able to use the optical finder in manual focus is sweet!
Having an electronic level and frame lines auto adjusting for distance is really a very useful.
Cheers!
Spanik
Well-known
No, I'm not a pro but I have used slr's all my life. So getting a new slr would not be a problem. There is nothing forcing me to use one system above the other. Using an slr comes more easier to me as well. But using only the screen at the back or a range-viewfinder would be problematic from my experience with such cameras.
Legacy lenses are not a goal in itself. I do have some older glass around but most of it is medium format. So far using them on the nex3 has been not a pleasant experience unless with a tripod and plenty of time. Using them on the 300D even with a confirmation adaptor is too hard to be useful.
Just put the M645ProTL with the 55 on the scale and that clocks in at 2.198 kg. So a modern dslr with 3 lenses would be lighter than my current kit. And the X-T1 with all lenses is 1 kg lighter than my camera with 1 lens. That's a serious reduction!
OK, I'll try to get my hands on one in a shop. And the X-T1 and A7.
Thanks for the tip, going to try that out. Have a turret finder for the Zorki around somewhere.
Legacy lenses are not a goal in itself. I do have some older glass around but most of it is medium format. So far using them on the nex3 has been not a pleasant experience unless with a tripod and plenty of time. Using them on the 300D even with a confirmation adaptor is too hard to be useful.
Just put the M645ProTL with the 55 on the scale and that clocks in at 2.198 kg. So a modern dslr with 3 lenses would be lighter than my current kit. And the X-T1 with all lenses is 1 kg lighter than my camera with 1 lens. That's a serious reduction!
OK, I'll try to get my hands on one in a shop. And the X-T1 and A7.
Thanks for the tip, going to try that out. Have a turret finder for the Zorki around somewhere.
GaryLH
Veteran
Turret finders tend to be squinty..but since u have one already, good place to start your experiment. If u decided it is worth it, get a more modern vf like a Voigtlander 28 brightline for your dp1.
Btw, if u don't mind a heavier dslr, there is also Sigma SD1 Merrill (apsc foveon sensor).
Gary
Btw, if u don't mind a heavier dslr, there is also Sigma SD1 Merrill (apsc foveon sensor).
Gary
Godfrey
somewhat colored
The Oly E-M1 is the state of the art in EVF, with the Sony A7/A7r slightly behind, and Fuji X-T1 third. The Olympus has the others beat based on both viewfinder optics and software, with its excellent automatic brightening/dimming to match ambient lighting conditions. I really wish the Sony had that.
Regards weight and size, the bodies of all three are roughly comparable. Lenses for the Olympus are substantially smaller and lighter than the other two, while giving up nothing in quality or speed, due to the smaller sensor format. An E-M1 with a kit of 12/17/25/45/75 mm prime lenses (roughly the equivalent of an A7 with 24/35/50/90/150mm) is about half the size and weight. The Fuji lens equivalents are more similar to the Sony (and note that that lens kit isn't available in native Sony FE lenses yet, they've got the 35 and 55, 28-70 and 24-70 zooms right now).
I have both the A7 and the E-M1. Performance of both is superb, with the Sony netting a couple of stops more sensitivity. I use the A7 to work with my Leica R lenses; and have all native FT and mFT lenses for the Olympus. The Olympus is the more sophisticated camera IMO.
G
Spanik
Well-known
Well, I found a shop that would let me rent a X-Pro1 or X-T1 (or others) so I think I'm going to do just that. Might be a bit of money but at least it will be cheaper than ending up with a camera I don't like.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
That's really the best way. All of these cameras are quite good performers, each has its strengths and weaknesses.. But it's much more which one you get on with best that will make the difference.
G