lilmsmaggie
Established
I have a Bessa R3M with a 50 f/2 Heliar. I've been going back and forth trying to decide between a 35 or 40mm Nokton. As far as framelines go, the 40 mm Nokton would be the obvious choice, but sometimes ya feel like a nut and want to go wider.
Just wanted to get some feedback from those shooting with external viewfinders to see if given the option (if available), would they have chosen a camera with built-in frames lines for the focal lengths they wanted to shoot, or pony-up instead and buy an external viewfinder.
Just wanted to get some feedback from those shooting with external viewfinders to see if given the option (if available), would they have chosen a camera with built-in frames lines for the focal lengths they wanted to shoot, or pony-up instead and buy an external viewfinder.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Yes, external viewfinders are worth it to me. But I'd rather have a camera with the frame lines I want built in. Effectively, for me, given that I have no great sympathy with 28mm, this means 25mm or wider, or 75mm.
YMMV.
Cheers,
R.
YMMV.
Cheers,
R.
ferider
Veteran
I don't like external finders - feels like a big distraction to switch between two views for focusing and framing. I use them for emergencies, sometimes (for example to use a 28 on an M3). That being said, it's less of a problem for lenses wide enough that you can pre/scale-focus.
In your case, if you can see the 40mm lines in your Bessa (no glasses), the 40mm lenses out there are all out-standing. The 40/1.4 in particular.
Roland.
In your case, if you can see the 40mm lines in your Bessa (no glasses), the 40mm lenses out there are all out-standing. The 40/1.4 in particular.
Roland.
ampguy
Veteran
for my use
for my use
If I have a 50 on, I rarely switch lenses to a 35 or 40, but usually figure I need to go down to 21 or 28 (like a factor of 2 or so), or sometimes even a 15.
I think the CV 21 VF is one of the most versatile, as it has bright lines for the 21 FOV, but using the whole of the view, you can use it for framing with the 15 lens.
The old metal Canon 28 VF is great for just 28. No lines, just a bright clear VF image of the 28 FOV.
for my use
If I have a 50 on, I rarely switch lenses to a 35 or 40, but usually figure I need to go down to 21 or 28 (like a factor of 2 or so), or sometimes even a 15.
I think the CV 21 VF is one of the most versatile, as it has bright lines for the 21 FOV, but using the whole of the view, you can use it for framing with the 15 lens.
The old metal Canon 28 VF is great for just 28. No lines, just a bright clear VF image of the 28 FOV.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
As a person who used to avoid external finders, I have now amassed a fair collection of them. You need an external finder if:
1. The built-in finder is not good enough for you. I use them on all LTM Barnacks, for instance.
2. The camera's finder is not wide enough (35mm lens on a Bessa R3M).
3. The camera's finder does cover the focal length, but it's too hard to see the framelines, such as the 35mm frame on a .72 Leica M, with glasses on; or the 28mm on the .58 finder.
I also find that the aux finder is good for street photography. It is somehow more discreet than raising the camera's finder all the way to eye level. This is especially good with the 25mm CV lens with pre-focus click stops.
1. The built-in finder is not good enough for you. I use them on all LTM Barnacks, for instance.
2. The camera's finder is not wide enough (35mm lens on a Bessa R3M).
3. The camera's finder does cover the focal length, but it's too hard to see the framelines, such as the 35mm frame on a .72 Leica M, with glasses on; or the 28mm on the .58 finder.
I also find that the aux finder is good for street photography. It is somehow more discreet than raising the camera's finder all the way to eye level. This is especially good with the 25mm CV lens with pre-focus click stops.
lilmsmaggie
Established
The R3M (250th Anniversary) which I purchased used, came with the 50 f/2 Heliar.
The 40mm 1.4 Nokton would have been nice, but the FL between the 50/40 are a bit close. That's why I was considering a 35, or even 28. But the R3M doesn't have framelines for that either
The 40mm 1.4 Nokton would have been nice, but the FL between the 50/40 are a bit close. That's why I was considering a 35, or even 28. But the R3M doesn't have framelines for that either
wjlapier
Well-known
Look at the camera in my avatar. A Leica IF. That lens is a Nikkor 28/3.5 with a CV 28mm finder. Today I took out a CV 21/4 Color Skopar and CV 21/25 finder on the IF. I'd say yes, in my case a finder is not only "worth the price of admission" but also necessary. BTW, the metal CV finders are very nice.
BillBingham2
Registered User
When I started back into Rangefinders the last time I went with a Bessa T, everything was an external finder. I used them fell in love with the simplicity for wide lenses. I found a Bessa L with a CV 25/4 snap-shot/Brightline Finder the perfect carry everywhere wide system. Guess focus and shoot is a lot of fun.
One of the great features of the Bessa R systems is the automatic parallax correction of the frame lines. It is a step up over the M3/2 an the S2/3 but a lot depends how close and how full you fill your frame. As you have the R3 I’d say look into an older LTM CV lens 28 or wider and pick up a Bessa L as a rear lens cap. LTM CV glass came with brightline finders so with a LTM to M adapter you can use it on your R3 but the L is the perfect low cost second camera.
B2 (;->
One of the great features of the Bessa R systems is the automatic parallax correction of the frame lines. It is a step up over the M3/2 an the S2/3 but a lot depends how close and how full you fill your frame. As you have the R3 I’d say look into an older LTM CV lens 28 or wider and pick up a Bessa L as a rear lens cap. LTM CV glass came with brightline finders so with a LTM to M adapter you can use it on your R3 but the L is the perfect low cost second camera.
B2 (;->
BillBingham2
Registered User
Another vote for the CV Metal Finders. I have one on my GRD III. It's brassing very nicely and the view is second to none. On bright days or cold days it saves batteries and my butt.
umcelinho
Marcelo
external viewfinders to me are nicer for lenses that you can scale focus or use the hyperfocal scale. For apertures that will require a more precise focus it might not be as straightforward.
I use my 12mm with a viewfinder with no problems at all, same with the 15mm when I had it. just set the focus range, speed and aperture as lighting requires and snap away. but when using the biogon 21/2.8 wide open I find it not so quick to get accurate focus and then frame and snap.
I use my 12mm with a viewfinder with no problems at all, same with the 15mm when I had it. just set the focus range, speed and aperture as lighting requires and snap away. but when using the biogon 21/2.8 wide open I find it not so quick to get accurate focus and then frame and snap.
Rico
Well-known
As noted by Rob-F, an external VF presents a friendly demeanor: good for strangers, family and friends alike. I have Leitz 50, 90, 135, and C/V 28, 35. All have superb metal build, brightlines, and a rounded profile to avoid catching on one's clothes. The clarity and brightness of the view is amazing compared to that from an RF camera (even my M4). On a Barnack, the clarity improvement is even more compelling.
Richard G
Veteran
25 and 135 definitely (even with the built in 135 frame lines available.) With my glasses my 35 finder is hardly any easier to see the frame lines with than the in-camera 0.72 VF.
pvdhaar
Peter
As a Bessa-T shooter, I'm forced to shoot with external finders only. Beyond the obvious issue that they each cost money, there are some good things about them, and some things bad.
What's good about them, is that when they're good, they're really good. The metal 1:1 50mm CV finder I have is a gem. It's compact, it's bright as daylight and has no distortion. I'd be inclined to stick it on an RF with a lower than 1x viewfinder because it's so easy on the eye..
But not all EVFs are built the same. I've got a zoom finder (for use with my 35mm) that's so big and heavy that the camera flips over backward when it's hanging on the neckstrap. The optics are like a coke bottle; low magnification and obscene amounts of barrel distortion. Then I've got a 28mm finder, that although it's very, very very bright, is also very, very, very big. Fortunately the housing is aluminium, so it doesn't weigh a ton. But it completely robs the camera from any vestiges of pocketability it might have.
And of course somewhere along the line I've also managed to lose a finder, a CV25.. I've since made it a habit to stick a piece of tape to the underside of the finder's feet so that it sits tight in the accessory shoe..
What's good about them, is that when they're good, they're really good. The metal 1:1 50mm CV finder I have is a gem. It's compact, it's bright as daylight and has no distortion. I'd be inclined to stick it on an RF with a lower than 1x viewfinder because it's so easy on the eye..
But not all EVFs are built the same. I've got a zoom finder (for use with my 35mm) that's so big and heavy that the camera flips over backward when it's hanging on the neckstrap. The optics are like a coke bottle; low magnification and obscene amounts of barrel distortion. Then I've got a 28mm finder, that although it's very, very very bright, is also very, very, very big. Fortunately the housing is aluminium, so it doesn't weigh a ton. But it completely robs the camera from any vestiges of pocketability it might have.
And of course somewhere along the line I've also managed to lose a finder, a CV25.. I've since made it a habit to stick a piece of tape to the underside of the finder's feet so that it sits tight in the accessory shoe..
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ethics_gradient
Well-known
I've had an R3a for a while, and only somewhat recently picked up a lens wider than 50mm (a 35mm Ultron). I haven't used it a ton, but in my experience so far the external VF way of shooting isn't so bad. If I shot more at 35mm (which I could honestly see myself doing, it was such a breath of fresh air after only having a 50mm and 85mm) I would probably try and trade the R3a in for an R2a though. The EVF is bright and I like the look of the camera with it on, but having focusing and composing in one window is really nice.
My Ultron didn't come with a finder, I bought an ugly Canon one off eBay and refurbished it, which only took about ten minutes with some Q-tips and hydrogen peroxide/ammonia solution. You can also harvest a VF from another camera - a lot of cheap disposable cameras have a 28~35mm focal length.
My Ultron didn't come with a finder, I bought an ugly Canon one off eBay and refurbished it, which only took about ten minutes with some Q-tips and hydrogen peroxide/ammonia solution. You can also harvest a VF from another camera - a lot of cheap disposable cameras have a 28~35mm focal length.
presspass
filmshooter
I have, and often carry, external finders for their clarity and simplicity. That said, I would rather have/use a camera-lens combination that has the appropriate built-in frames. But for the wides - 25 to 15 - the external finders are just fine. (And, as mentioned above, an old Leica external finder for 135 - it's clearer than the built-ins.)
bigeye
Well-known
I prefer the plastic 15mm CV VF (I can't speak to the other CV models). I bought the metal one to clear the shutter dial on the IIIf (Bessa imitator) and for its better build, but camera-at-the-eye, I'd rather have the plastic one. The image is larger and has better contrast. I have to stick with the metal one for the dial interference issue, but it is a disappointment.
If I had a larger body like the Bessa that didn't fit into a coat pocket, I wouldn't mind external VFs at all. I shoot pre-set scale-focus most of the time, anyway, and the externals have the prettiest framing (at least until the X100 comes out).
If I had a larger body like the Bessa that didn't fit into a coat pocket, I wouldn't mind external VFs at all. I shoot pre-set scale-focus most of the time, anyway, and the externals have the prettiest framing (at least until the X100 comes out).
rbsinto
Well-known
Of course I'd rather have a camera that had all the bulit-in framelines I needed, rather than having to horse around with external viewfinders (look in here to focus, and look in there to compose). Not to mention the possibility that a good knock will snap the finder off at its foot.
But when even my SP's framelines won't cover all the focal lengths I use, what's a fella to do?
In the end, it's no big deal. Just another of the quaint Rangefinder quirks that I live with when I shoot with them.
But when even my SP's framelines won't cover all the focal lengths I use, what's a fella to do?
In the end, it's no big deal. Just another of the quaint Rangefinder quirks that I live with when I shoot with them.