Fake Black Leica M3?

Joe Vitessa

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It cloud be the real thing. Correct brass strap lugs (not easy to fake), the braising looks "authentic", but considering the price asked, I would have it verified by Leica and also get the provenance for it.
 
Tom, would the white logo be so bright after all these years? I dunno. I also recall seeing another M with imitation brassing that sort of looked like this. It's a little too "neatly brassed." Note that the brassing on the round ends of the rewind button, frame selector, and timer all look a little too similar.
 
If you read the seller's feedback, he is accused of selling Leica fakes by previous buyers. I think this auctions should have big bold letters;

BUYER BEWARE!!!
 
If the serial number is not in the proper list it must be a repaint job.

The wear looks artificial imo.

The open-close knob should be black, should it?
 
Fake. The serial number is not in the list of BP M3s. Plus the base plate looks too new to me. Hardly any heavy scratches or wear off on the base plate after all these years? Must have been a shelf queen !
 
What jumped out for me was the black rings around the two flash output sockets on the back of the camera. I have never seen those in black, even on the real black paint M3 bodies those are chrome.
 
Check this listing out: It looks like a repaint--down to the fake brassing--but the serial number corresponds with a real black M3 (or so the seller says). Is it a repaint of a real black M3? Looks like the seller was flagged for selling phony M3 boxes, so there's a red flag right there. Any ideas?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191513054364?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

According to the wiki, the batch is both black and chrome;
1093801-1097700** Leica M3 (Schwz Lackiert+chrom-ss).
Get a chrome from that batch and repaint - now its an official black paint - no way to tell either way. Far safer to get a BP from an only BP batch IMHO.

Still an okay looking camera, and current bid is reasonable for a repaint anyway.
 
I would say, if you are looking for a black paint M3 to use and can get it for a decent price, maybe $1400-1600 (basically the price for a chrome one with a good paint job) - go for it. If you are looking for a collectible - stay away.
There are a lot of black M3 parts around, top-plates included. The brass strap-lugs are one thing that is difficult to "fake" though. You can always check with Leica Wetzlar about the provenance. Leica would happily turn your chrome camera into a black camera for a fee. Dealers and importers had orders and none in stock - so Leica filled the void. The bigger importers had their own engraving machines with correct numbers. They also had "blank" top plates, both chrome or black and you handed your camera over, they removed the top plate - had the number of the chrome one engraved on the black top - and supposedly destroyed the chrome one. It wasn't that expensive either - somewhere around $ 100 at the time.
Factory "non black paint list" bodies were often special order batches. Does not show up in the "official" list - only in the shipping documents. Remember that when these cameras were made - they were not collectibles, just working cameras.
As for black rings around the flash synch, I have seen both on black M2 and M3's (verified originals). I think it depended a bit on what was on the assemblers table at the moment.
 
I would say, if you are looking for a black paint M3 to use and can get it for a decent price, maybe $1400-1600 (basically the price for a chrome one with a good paint job) - go for it. If you are looking for a collectible - stay away.
There are a lot of black M3 parts around, top-plates included. The brass strap-lugs are one thing that is difficult to "fake" though. You can always check with Leica Wetzlar about the provenance. Leica would happily turn your chrome camera into a black camera for a fee. Dealers and importers had orders and none in stock - so Leica filled the void. The bigger importers had their own engraving machines with correct numbers. They also had "blank" top plates, both chrome or black and you handed your camera over, they removed the top plate - had the number of the chrome one engraved on the black top - and supposedly destroyed the chrome one. It wasn't that expensive either - somewhere around $ 100 at the time.
Factory "non black paint list" bodies were often special order batches. Does not show up in the "official" list - only in the shipping documents. Remember that when these cameras were made - they were not collectibles, just working cameras.
As for black rings around the flash synch, I have seen both on black M2 and M3's (verified originals). I think it depended a bit on what was on the assemblers table at the moment.


Interesting bit of history there!
 
According to the wiki, the batch is both black and chrome;
1093801-1097700** Leica M3 (Schwz Lackiert+chrom-ss).
Get a chrome from that batch and repaint - now its an official black paint - no way to tell either way. Far safer to get a BP from an only BP batch IMHO.

Still an okay looking camera, and current bid is reasonable for a repaint anyway.

This is what occurred to me as well. There's no way to be sure, based on the serial number group. Jim Lager may be able to figure it out.
 
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