Fast 28?

[oscroft]

I'm in the market for a fast 28 at the moment (I have a CV 28/3.5, which I love, but 28 is one of my favourite FLs and a faster one would really be useful at times).

The obvious candidates are the CV 28/2 Ultron and the Zeiss 28/2.8 Biogon.

I already have a CV 28/2 on its way to me (good price from a famous auction site), and what I'm wondering is whether it's worth looking for a Zeiss to compare (I'm actually watching one at the moment), with a view to keeping the one I like best and selling on the other (I couldn't really afford to keep both - but the obvious danger is that I'd want to ).

What I'm hoping is that there'll be someone here with experience of these two lenses (I'm pretty sure I remember Tom talking of the CV a little while ago), so any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

 

[Bobfrance]

Hi Alan,

Hope you're well.

I've got the Zeiss 28/2,8 Biogon.
I bought it from the real camera co a couple of months ago. They also had the CV28/2 and the M-Hexanon 28 in as well, so I brought the M8 with me and took the opportunity to test them all. I was interested mainly in fine levels of contrast in the fine details, so tested by shooting a business card about 6ft away with the lens wide open and checking how well the fine text on it was rendered.

In the end I plumped for the Biogon because I like the way Zeiss lenses render. It was fractionally better on the very fine detail than the Hexanon and was significantly better then the CV.

It also has that Zeiss 'pop' to it's images that I loved from my 50mm Planar.
I liked the build quality of the Hexanon best, but I had to go with how it rendered images so the Zeiss got it.

Paul (Kuvvy has just bought the CV 28/2) if you're in the country we could always meet up and you can try them both.

Bob.

 

[oscroft]

Hi Bob,

I'm well, thanks - hope you're getting on well with the M8.

I actually have a CV 28/2 arriving tomorrow (auction site bargain, I hope), so some sort of meet to compare the two would be great. The only problem is that, I am in the UK (haven't managed to get away yet), but I expect to be off in the next few weeks - so there may not be time.

I do kinda feel that, even if I don't end up getting one (or keeping one), I really should at least have tried one of the Zeiss lenses - I do keep hearing such good things about them.

Cheers,

 

[kuvvy]

How did I know Bob would be first to reply to this Alan? He's right in that the Zeiss seems to 'pop' the images. Probably down to the higher contrast. That said I recently got the CV 28/2 and it seems fine to me. I haven't had chance to really try it out yet (got my daughters wedding this Saturday) but the few test shots I've done seem very good. I have the CV15 Heliar, CV25/4P and I'm pleased with those so kept with CV when looking for a 28. May be tempted to look for a 50 now.

 

[Bobfrance]

Ha ha, I should be getting commission from Zeiss!

As an alternative Alan, why not do like I did and visit Jem at the Real Camera Co. He's generally happy for you to wander off and trial his lenses. You can then get him to post it to you if you decide to buy after you've had the film developed.

 

[Bobfrance]

...May be tempted to look for a 50 now.

There's rich pickings at the 50mm focal length. You'll be spoilt for choice.

Why not get a whopping great Nokton for low light/portrait stuff? All your current lenses are far too sensibly sized. .

 

[kully]

That Nokton isn't massive I've had the chance to play with a ZM50/1.5 Friday-Sunday and with both hoods on, they're the same length and there's no much in the width either.

 

[kully]

I have the ZM28/2.8 too, but I wish I had a lens which was faster - I tried a 28/1.9 but it focussed behind that indicated on my M8.

 

[oscroft]

How did I know Bob would be first to reply to this Alan? He's right in that the Zeiss seems to 'pop' the images. Probably down to the higher contrast. That said I recently got the CV 28/2 and it seems fine to me. I haven't had chance to really try it out yet (got my daughters wedding this Saturday) but the few test shots I've done seem very good. I have the CV15 Heliar, CV25/4P and I'm pleased with those so kept with CV when looking for a 28. May be tempted to look for a 50 now.

I've got the 15 too, and had a non-cam 25 but sold it when I realised it didn't work properly with the R4 frames. I've got other CVs too, so if the 28/2 is in keeping with them then I expect I'll like it. Would still love to compare it with the Zeiss, mind.

For a 50, I think the CV 50/2.5 is a gem - I recently sold my modern Elmar 50/2.8 because I like the CV better. I won't be using mine for the next few months (won't be taking it away with me), so you'd be welcome to borrow it if you fancy trying it.

 

[oscroft]

As an alternative Alan, why not do like I did and visit Jem at the Real Camera Co. He's generally happy for you to wander off and trial his lenses. You can then get him to post it to you if you decide to buy after you've had the film developed

Yeah, Jem is very helpful like that - it was after he let me have a play with the 35/1.4 that I went back and bought it from him.

But the thing that would stop me doing the same with a Zeiss 28 is that I can't really afford to buy a new one, so if I got one it would have to be an auction-site thing (as I say, I'm watching one at the moment - won't post a link in case it attracts any of you lot as competitors ). I wouldn't abuse Jem's goodwill by trying his stuff and then buying elsewhere.

 

[oscroft]

I have the ZM28/2.8 too, but I wish I had a lens which was faster

Yeah, the extra stop attracts me to the CV 28/2 too - as I have the 28/3.5, the Zeiss wouldn't give me much more speed. But then, I do like the idea of trying at least one of the Zeiss range - ah, such decisions.

 

[Bobfrance]

But the thing that would stop me doing the same with a Zeiss 28 is that I can't really afford to buy a new one,[...] I wouldn't abuse Jem's goodwill by trying his stuff and then buying elsewhere.

Ah but you forget, Jem has plenty of second hand stuff too. My Biogon was second hand (but like new in the box) and the price was easily as good as online prices, but without the cost of postage, fear of import tax and the luxury of seeing it first. I also part-exed some gear towards it at very reasonable rates.

These days I'd always call him first to see what he has in stock before I took the plunge on an ebay purchase.

Forget Zeiss - Jem should be paying me commission!

 

[mfogiel]

Hi,

I have both the 28 Biogon and the 28/2 Ultron, and as a matter of fact I have just bought the 28/1.9 Ultron, but it has not arrived yet...

The Biogon is the sharpest lens in the center, but (just like the CV 28/2) has softer corners. It has a slightly higher macro contrast and quite a bit higher micro contrast, but it is only f 2.8.

I am still searching for a good fast 28mm lens for B&W, and I would like to compare the 2 CV lenses soon.

In practical use, I find f2.0 to be helpful, and I would give it up only if the 28/2.8 Biogon was as good as the 25/2.8... if you are willing to go slightly wider, the 25 Biogon is a reference lens in this class. I have tested ( http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75314&highlight=ultron+focus+shift) the Ultron for the focus shift, and on film it is entirely manageable. It is a good lens for low light and all round photography. Here are some images wide open:

And a couple around f 5.6

 

[oscroft]

Ah but you forget, Jem has plenty of second hand stuff too.

Yes, that's true - definitely worth a call.

 

[oscroft]

Hi mfogiel,

Thanks for the info - some superb shots there.

The Ultron focus shift test is great stuff, thanks - I rarely shoot close up, and from your results it really does look manageable.

The Biogon is the sharpest lens in the center, but (just like the CV 28/2) has softer corners. It has a slightly higher macro contrast and quite a bit higher micro contrast, but it is only f 2.8.

Interesting, thanks - that's pretty much what I'd expected from what others have said.

if you are willing to go slightly wider, the 25 Biogon is a reference lens in this class.

Now, that is an intriguing possibility.

I definitely do want a fast 28, for use with my M6 and its 28 frame (I love the 28/3.5, but sometimes I really do want something faster - to get a bit less DOF as much as for any other reason).

But as it happens, I have a replacement 25 planned for sometime in the future. I used to have a CV 25/4 snapshot, but with no RF cam it didn't work with the frames in my R4A, so I sold it and have been meaning to get the new version as a workhorse lens for that body. I hadn't thought about a 25 Biogon, but I clearly should do.

Maybe I'll abandon the idea of a 28 Biogon and stick with the Ultron, and then see if I can find a 2nd hand 25 Biogon sometime later - you've got me thinking now, thanks

 

[Tom A]

I like the 28f2 VC - it is very good on film (I dont use digital!) and @ f2 more than passable. It is also the best of the bunch in close.
The 28f3.5 is one of my favorite 28's for a compact lens. A bit slow - but it has a rendering in bl/w that most other lenses lack.
The Biogon 28f2.8 is good - as are all the ZM lenses, but the speed "gain" between a 28f3.5 and a 2.8 is not enough to switch in my opinion.
Please say hello to Jem from us the next time anyone of you guys go to Real Camera. He is a friend and one of the reason we go to various LHSA and Photokina's.

 

[oscroft]

Thanks Tom - I'm only interested in film too, mainly B&W, and I agree about the 28/3.5 (I keep thinking I should get another one while I can). I should probably try it with colour film too, one of these days, but I haven't yet.

I'm really thinking that I should only try a Zeiss 28 if I can get one cheap enough to be sure of getting my money back by reselling it - but yes, the f/2 of the CV makes a lot more sense.

Cheers,

 

[sepiareverb]

Summicron?

I think the Summicron is one of the best Leica Lenses, up there with the 24/2.8 ASPH. I much prefer it to the ZM 28 I had before it. Smaller, less flare, smoother action, better prints. I regularly print 16x20", if a lens can't do that and retain good detail I find one that does. The Summicron does, and could likely go bigger.

This one (@4 or 5.6) makes a great 16x20, with crisp detail and smooth edges to the fencing all the way out to the corners.

And it gives wonderful smoothness to glass:

 

[oscroft]

Summicron?

Way out of my price range.

 

[oscroft]

The Ultron arrived this morning

Construction quality seems to be pretty good - I'll go shoot a roll with it as soon as I can.