v3cron
Well-known
Curious about old folders, as I know very little about them. I shoot Leica M primarily and have owned modern 120 RFs (Mamiya 6, Fuji 670). The latter handle really well, but the optics are too modern for my taste. Which of the older folders have the best viewfinders, rangefinders, and general handling speed?
W
Way
Guest
I think all folders were not built for speed. A folder with a coupled rangefinder will help. Some rare ones have a built in meter. What makes them slow? Everything is set manually - focus, aperture, shutter speed, cocking the shutter (something I sometimes still forget to do!). My folders do not use a lever advance, so turning that knob to advance the film takes a little more time. Of course if you use zone focusing and the light doesn't change then that helps speed up the process. Your Mamiya 6 is definitely faster to use.
Which cameras? I can only speak about my cameras and my Agfa Super Isolette (6x6) and Agfa Record III (6x9) have pretty good viewfinders. Nothing like a Leica or the new Zeiss Ikon M but good by old folder standards. What I like about the Agfas is that the rangefinder patch is clear and focus snaps into place. The Super Isolette has a coupled RF and the Record III has an uncoupled RF. Patch clarity is better than my more modern Fuji GS645 folder. Better than my Voigtlander Bessa RF (6x9) folder, though the focus image is misaligned on that one.
All said, I love to use my Super Isolette. I like 6x6 and I love the way the Solinar lens draws. Probably my second most loved MF camera to use is the Mamya 6 or Rollei. The Record III folder would get much more use but I favor 6x6.
I think a good site for general info is certo6's site. He repairs and sells folders. YMMV with the quality of service from him. The two Agfas were bought from him and are outstanding. The Bessa RF was also from him and the RF is misaligned. Here's his site:
http://www.certo6.com/
Which cameras? I can only speak about my cameras and my Agfa Super Isolette (6x6) and Agfa Record III (6x9) have pretty good viewfinders. Nothing like a Leica or the new Zeiss Ikon M but good by old folder standards. What I like about the Agfas is that the rangefinder patch is clear and focus snaps into place. The Super Isolette has a coupled RF and the Record III has an uncoupled RF. Patch clarity is better than my more modern Fuji GS645 folder. Better than my Voigtlander Bessa RF (6x9) folder, though the focus image is misaligned on that one.
All said, I love to use my Super Isolette. I like 6x6 and I love the way the Solinar lens draws. Probably my second most loved MF camera to use is the Mamya 6 or Rollei. The Record III folder would get much more use but I favor 6x6.
I think a good site for general info is certo6's site. He repairs and sells folders. YMMV with the quality of service from him. The two Agfas were bought from him and are outstanding. The Bessa RF was also from him and the RF is misaligned. Here's his site:
http://www.certo6.com/
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chippy
foo was here
Like Way says folders wouldnt be put in the built for speed catergory. although if you become very familar with a particular cameras operation, things become second nature which both speeds up operation and is less anoying because you dont need to think about each seperate thing to do.
goes without saying a coupled rangefinder speeds things up considerably.
i can only think of one folder of the top of my head that cocks the shutter while winding on but it doesnt have c/rangefinder, so you may as well say that all need to manually cock the shutter. film winding is another aspect that can speed things up and camera like the s/isolette, s/ikonta, s/baldax...the list goes on but pretty much any late 50s camera.
the film wind isnt that difficult to be used to on just a manual red window camera such as the welta weltur though. once you become ascustomed to it is fast. after each shot without looking, wind a couple of turns and when your ready to shoot next wind a short distance until the number appears, in some ways it can be quicker, less distance (time) to wind on, loading can be simpler and quicker, and on some of the more tempermental auto wind on, frame counting-stop cameras the mechanisms can play up.
setting the exposure speed and aperature is the next thing that can take some time, and the super isolette has the LV system which can speed things up if you are used to using it. one thing i find a pain with the super isolette is having to set the focus to infinity each time before closing (wont close otherwise) whereas the Weltur returns to infinity automatically as the door closes, just a small thing but makes it quick and easy to close. the viewfinder is just as good as the s/isolette, there are only a couple of late model folders that have better and they are scarce and expensive. if you get the right size (shape) filter it can be left on the weltur (when you close the front) which speeds things up and is a bonus as well.
goes without saying a coupled rangefinder speeds things up considerably.
i can only think of one folder of the top of my head that cocks the shutter while winding on but it doesnt have c/rangefinder, so you may as well say that all need to manually cock the shutter. film winding is another aspect that can speed things up and camera like the s/isolette, s/ikonta, s/baldax...the list goes on but pretty much any late 50s camera.
the film wind isnt that difficult to be used to on just a manual red window camera such as the welta weltur though. once you become ascustomed to it is fast. after each shot without looking, wind a couple of turns and when your ready to shoot next wind a short distance until the number appears, in some ways it can be quicker, less distance (time) to wind on, loading can be simpler and quicker, and on some of the more tempermental auto wind on, frame counting-stop cameras the mechanisms can play up.
setting the exposure speed and aperature is the next thing that can take some time, and the super isolette has the LV system which can speed things up if you are used to using it. one thing i find a pain with the super isolette is having to set the focus to infinity each time before closing (wont close otherwise) whereas the Weltur returns to infinity automatically as the door closes, just a small thing but makes it quick and easy to close. the viewfinder is just as good as the s/isolette, there are only a couple of late model folders that have better and they are scarce and expensive. if you get the right size (shape) filter it can be left on the weltur (when you close the front) which speeds things up and is a bonus as well.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
literiter
Well-known
At my house,the fastest handling folder, would have to be my 35mm Kodak Retina IIa, because it cocks the shutter and advances the film just like the Leica M. Not anywhere like my Leica M finder but it works.
The next in line would be the Super Ikonta IV and the Super Ikonta B. The finders are a little better than the finder on the Retina.
The next in line would be the Super Ikonta IV and the Super Ikonta B. The finders are a little better than the finder on the Retina.
chippy
foo was here
hehe you must be quite nimble and flexable Limpovitj 
...rather arkward i would think (IMO), i am not sure i could be bothered to keep the camera to my eye that long....
to the move your fingers (which only one can be used on that tiny dial of the s/ikonts B) of the left hand to turn the small dial to focus , then turn the wind knob with the right hand and then move your hand again to cock the shutter...all while not taking your eye away from the viewfinder ..of course the light and speed settings have to remain the same at the same time...its an interesting and worthwhile question but if someone is after that kind of speed in med format, which is more akin to fashion, model shoots or weddings, sport ect where we often dont want to remove our eye from the camera for short periods then i would use a hasselblad although there are other choices.........overall folders are a more relaxed method of photography i think.cetainly more enjoyable if that view is taken at least
edit; just meant to add that with the s/ikonta a filter can be left on as well..i find this a bonus in saving time fiddling about looking for one, if your shooting the type of things where say you might be inclined to leave a yellow filter on for the duration of the day or a shoot, the Weltur can do the same, quite a few other camera you cant close the door if a filter is left on
...rather arkward i would think (IMO), i am not sure i could be bothered to keep the camera to my eye that long....to the move your fingers (which only one can be used on that tiny dial of the s/ikonts B) of the left hand to turn the small dial to focus , then turn the wind knob with the right hand and then move your hand again to cock the shutter...all while not taking your eye away from the viewfinder ..of course the light and speed settings have to remain the same at the same time...its an interesting and worthwhile question but if someone is after that kind of speed in med format, which is more akin to fashion, model shoots or weddings, sport ect where we often dont want to remove our eye from the camera for short periods then i would use a hasselblad although there are other choices.........overall folders are a more relaxed method of photography i think.cetainly more enjoyable if that view is taken at least
edit; just meant to add that with the s/ikonta a filter can be left on as well..i find this a bonus in saving time fiddling about looking for one, if your shooting the type of things where say you might be inclined to leave a yellow filter on for the duration of the day or a shoot, the Weltur can do the same, quite a few other camera you cant close the door if a filter is left on
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W
Way
Guest
It is really a relaxing way of shooting, and I thought an M camera was slow! But I enjoy the pace of it. I recently took the Super Isolette to the San Diego Wild Animal Park and there were some situations where I had to shoot quickly of a cheetah and giraffe. The Mamiya 6 would've been a better choice. An SLR ideal. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get the prints and see how well (or badly) I did!
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
To me, the Mamiya Six Automat II is by far the easiest and fastest folder to handle. I features a coupled rangefinder as well as automatic film winding with coupled shutter cocking. The Sekor 75/3.5 is a great lens too, with this delightful vintage look. Here's a link to an old thread about this great camera.
Cheers!
Abbazz
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Another vote for the Retina IIa and also the Karat IV. Those are not 120 film cameras though. In 120, I really like the Super Isolette/Speedex. If you get a Super Isolette though, or any other of the later model Isolettes and Speedexes, be aware it is going to take some work before you can use it. The bellows will need to be replaced, the shutters will need to be cleaned and there is this horrible green grease that will need replacing on both the rangefinder and the lens threads. Once that is done though, you have a first class shooter.
mh2000
Well-known
the bellows on both my B2 Speedex and Isolette I are both sound and original. the grease on my Isolette had to be removed and the lens adjusted, but otherwise both are great users (no RF though). My Moskva-5 is actually pretty good.
eli griggs
Well-known
I don't have any real experience with any other old folder with a really good lens, but the Iskra is dead simple and the glass is top rate, IMO, others too!
Sitting here I can't think what could be done to make it or any similar vintage folder any faster to use.
Cheers
Sitting here I can't think what could be done to make it or any similar vintage folder any faster to use.
Cheers
FallisPhoto
Veteran
BTW, the terms "old folder" and "general handling speed" don't really go together. If you're looking for something to use for sports photography, that's not it. They are pretty good for studio stuff, street portraits and landscapes though. As much as I love my folders, a folder wouldn't be my first choice for anything where I couldn't take my time though.
P C Headland
Well-known
Of the folders I've used, I reckon the Iskra is the quickest, and has easily the best viewfinder.
A later Mamiya 6 would be pretty good to, especially the Automat, or a Super Fujica-6.
A later Mamiya 6 would be pretty good to, especially the Automat, or a Super Fujica-6.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Actually that's a good point ... once you get a feel for the Iskra they are superb. I initially found mine a bit tricky but a few rolls on I'm starting to really like it. The Iskra's lens is as sharp as anything I've used in MF and I rate it as better than the Zenzanons on my RF645. The rangefinder contrast is excellent and really snaps into focus but the viewfinder itself is a little on the squinty side!
Damn ... every time I sing the praises of my Iskra I just have to get it out of the cupboard and give it a good fondle!