themerinator
canteloupe shades
Is there a particular type of 35mm film that anyone recommends? Perhaps one that's easier to have developed. I prefer black and white, although I guess photoshop can help me out with that. Thanks for your comments in advance! 
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C
ch1
Guest
themerinator said:Is there a particular type of 35mm film that anyone recommends? Perhaps one that's easier to have developed. I prefer black and white, although I guess photoshop can help me out with that. Thanks for your comments in advance!
Hi,
If you get one ofthe B&W "chromogenics" (e.g. Ilford XP-2, Kodak TCN-400) it can be developed at any of the 1-hour labs. Although it is a type of B&W film it actually uses a common form of color processing known as C-41 which is available at the 1-hour labs.
There are "better" "true" B&W alternatives which others here can elaborate on. Mostly you will need to find a more "pro" type lab to develop them (although a lot of fotoshop-type places will fowrard them for you). These B&W films can also be self-developed if you are so inclined to learn how to do so.
Hope this info helps.
clarence
ダメ
Hello and welcome to blackandwhiteforum.com! You will probably soon receive a flood of replies telling you how awesome it is to develop your own black and white film; I would second George's recommendation, however.
Purchase the C41 Black and White film, shoot it, drop it off at the lab, and forget about processing your own for now. Once you decide you like black and white photography, you can start investing in a small home development kit of your own.
Have fun.
Clarence
Purchase the C41 Black and White film, shoot it, drop it off at the lab, and forget about processing your own for now. Once you decide you like black and white photography, you can start investing in a small home development kit of your own.
Have fun.
Clarence
themerinator
canteloupe shades
Yes, I'm already fairly well versed in black and white developing as I spent several months in a lab at school, and I'm sure many more seeing that photography is my minor. I just don't have the time to develop all my own stuff, or the money! So yes, alternatives to home developing is certainly what I'm looking for. Although it makes me sad, as the dark room is like a second home for me. Thanks again!
Creagerj
Incidental Artist
A lot of labs will do true B&W. Most safeways will forward your film if you want kodak perfect touch. Otherwise, you could find a place to send your film to. I love ilford HP5 (400), and FP4 (125). Also Kodak Tmax is great but more money. As far as I am concerd however, HP5 is a great all around film. Except for maybe portaits.
themerinator
canteloupe shades
Yeah but forwarding film usually gets expensive. In Houston it's roughly $25 to have a roll of Ilford HP5 with singles developed at another lab . When I'm at school, in San Marcos, there's a great lab. But it's $15 for a contact sheet and negatives, and then roughly $3 for 5x7 prints. Oyveh. Anywho. Perhaps I should just start home developing my own negatives, and then have the labs do only my prints.
TimBonzi
.
I just started using Kodak BW400CN - This is the Kodak chromogenic B&W film that uses the C-41 developer. Found a local place that develops and prints this all the time (a Ritz shop). If you'd like to see some shots with this, go to the "Gallery" and do a search for BW400CN.
bmattock
Veteran
The chromogenic B&W films mentioned above are easily processed at one-hour labs and cost the same as having C-41 done. I just have mine processed, cut, and sleeved - I do my own scanning and don't order prints. Cost is $2 USD at Walgreens.
As to using one of the various chromogenic films (Kodak & Ilford) over using standard C-41 and then desaturating in PS, I could not tell you which is better. I note that some C-41 color films are pretty inexpensive, while C-41 B&W films tend be a bit pricier. Economically, it might make some sense to buy cheap color film and convert it to B&W in PS later.
In addition, if you scan your own or have it scanned for you and choose to do color film, you can use channel mixing and various other tools to obtain some of the effects that you would otherwise get by using actual B&W style filters (red, orange, yellow, green, blue) on true B&W film. If you scan C-41 B&W (or true B&W for that matter), you can't apply filter equivalents through PS later on - the color information is not there to operate on.
I guess if my choice were to be C-41 color or C-41 B&W, I'd choose the cheaper color film and gain the added advantages of PS adjustments as well. But you feel otherwise.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
As to using one of the various chromogenic films (Kodak & Ilford) over using standard C-41 and then desaturating in PS, I could not tell you which is better. I note that some C-41 color films are pretty inexpensive, while C-41 B&W films tend be a bit pricier. Economically, it might make some sense to buy cheap color film and convert it to B&W in PS later.
In addition, if you scan your own or have it scanned for you and choose to do color film, you can use channel mixing and various other tools to obtain some of the effects that you would otherwise get by using actual B&W style filters (red, orange, yellow, green, blue) on true B&W film. If you scan C-41 B&W (or true B&W for that matter), you can't apply filter equivalents through PS later on - the color information is not there to operate on.
I guess if my choice were to be C-41 color or C-41 B&W, I'd choose the cheaper color film and gain the added advantages of PS adjustments as well. But you feel otherwise.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
Has anybody tried any http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/filmf.htm#LabelNeo400CN which seems to be JP and UK market only?
themerinator
canteloupe shades
Well, I'm open to color film. What would you suggest? I've heard people raving about fuji.
bmattock
Veteran
themerinator said:
If you are converting to B&W, why not go with the cheapest color film you can find? Seriously, as long as the colors are more-or-less accurately portrayed, if you're going to desaturate, I'm not sure that any difference in the overall quality of the color film would matter - perhaps 'grain' as expressed in color film (RMS value) would be better if smaller - but again, not sure that you'd see much in the way of a difference once scanned.
So if it were me, I'd go cheap! House-brand low-ISO color film, as close to a buck a roll as I could manage.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
nightfly
Well-known
OK I'll bite on this.
C-41 film doesn't really have the look of true black and white, no matter what you do to it in Photoshop nor does de-saturated or channel mixed color film. It lacks the texture and tonality. If you're OK with that look, that's fine and you are probably just as well using color film to get even more options.
However, I'm not sure how much cheaper you can get than developing your own film at home. For less than $100 total one time cost for setup (this is being overly generous and assuming brand new high quality tanks and reels, a changing bag and some other odds and ends) and probably cents per roll of film, you gain total control over your process and then can scan, have prints made or print in the darkroom as you see fit. Time is a constraint but if you use bigger cans you can do say 4 rolls in about 20 minutes (10 minutes dev, 30 second stop, 5 minutes fix, 3 minutes wash and Permawash, 30 seconds Photoflow). Hang em up in the bathroom and you're done.
However for convience, the C-41 stuff is probably much easier if you can get it done at a 1 hour place for 2 bucks a roll. However if you are going in this direction, why not just go digital for added convenience?
As far as film recs for for traditional black and white film, Tri-X and Neopan 400 are my favorites for faster film and Illford FP4 for slower film. Places like Freestyle Photo and BandH usually have these for $2-3 a roll (although I guess everyone just bumped up their prices a bit on films with silver in them). HP5 makes everything look grey to me, I tend to like more pop.
C-41 film doesn't really have the look of true black and white, no matter what you do to it in Photoshop nor does de-saturated or channel mixed color film. It lacks the texture and tonality. If you're OK with that look, that's fine and you are probably just as well using color film to get even more options.
However, I'm not sure how much cheaper you can get than developing your own film at home. For less than $100 total one time cost for setup (this is being overly generous and assuming brand new high quality tanks and reels, a changing bag and some other odds and ends) and probably cents per roll of film, you gain total control over your process and then can scan, have prints made or print in the darkroom as you see fit. Time is a constraint but if you use bigger cans you can do say 4 rolls in about 20 minutes (10 minutes dev, 30 second stop, 5 minutes fix, 3 minutes wash and Permawash, 30 seconds Photoflow). Hang em up in the bathroom and you're done.
However for convience, the C-41 stuff is probably much easier if you can get it done at a 1 hour place for 2 bucks a roll. However if you are going in this direction, why not just go digital for added convenience?
As far as film recs for for traditional black and white film, Tri-X and Neopan 400 are my favorites for faster film and Illford FP4 for slower film. Places like Freestyle Photo and BandH usually have these for $2-3 a roll (although I guess everyone just bumped up their prices a bit on films with silver in them). HP5 makes everything look grey to me, I tend to like more pop.
ARS
Member
I use Ilford HP5+ and Kodak TMAX 400, both are excellent choice! XP2+ is a cool film. I scan negatives with Nikon coolscan and this film outperforms any B/W I used
However, I've never tryed to print from XP+ so I'm not sure if it is as good for prints as for monitor. Fuji is amzing film, absolutely true! I prefer NPZ 800 and Superia 400(buget friendly choice)...
However, I've never tryed to print from XP+ so I'm not sure if it is as good for prints as for monitor. Fuji is amzing film, absolutely true! I prefer NPZ 800 and Superia 400(buget friendly choice)...
titrisol
Bottom Feeder
If you are going to send out, use Ilford XP2, which is a lot easier to print in an enalrger than the kodak stuff. Rated as 200 gives excellent results.
In color, the Superia line from Fuji is hard to beat for general photography
In color, the Superia line from Fuji is hard to beat for general photography
erikhaugsby
killer of threads
I don't know if this sounds incredibly stupid, but would enlarging color negatives through an enlarger onto B&W paper give an effect close to that as originally using B&W negatives to project onto the paper? I've never tried it, and am wondering if anybody else has thought of it.
sf
Veteran
erikhaugsby said:
The color mask on the negatives affects the contrast from my own experience.
themerinator
canteloupe shades
Is it really that cheap to develop my negatives at home? Man, that puts a different spin on things. Any other tips/ comments on developing negs at home??
erikhaugsby
killer of threads
themerinator said:
Easy as cake once you get through loading your first steel reel. I find it to be much cheaper than processing by mail, especially if you use powdered developers (D-76 comes to mind). There's a charm to it, as well, considering that you were the one that exposed and developed the negatives as opposed to an unknown third party.
The only problem with self-developing is if you have a single-reel tank, it takes an easy 20 minutes per roll to fully develop, stop, fix, and wash.
nightfly
Well-known
As far as developing negs at home you basically need the following:
1) tank (small tank will do 2 35mm reels or 1 120 reel, a big tank will do 4 35mm or 2 120). I like steel here. Brand is fairly unimportant. Cost ~$20 new. Much less used.
2) 2 or 4 reels (deepending on what tank you bought). Here I would go for Hewes stainless steel reels which are about $20/each. You might find them used in good condition but you don't want them bent at all. Other people like plastic. Advantage of steel is that it is easy to try quickly and it doesn't have to be bone dry to use again. A plastic reel that is a little bit wet wil be super frustrating to load.
3) A big measuing cup for mixing chemicals (1 quart or 1000 milliteres). Probably about $5 new from a photo place, cheaper elsewhere.
4) A couple of brown bottles to store your chemicals (1 for fixer, 1 for permawash, 1 for Photoflow). Probably $10 total. I personally use water for stop so no need to store and I mix a fresh batch of 1 shot developer each time. People use things like old soda bottles here. I like the brown photo bottles myself.
5) Developer. Your choice. I like liquids like HC-110 or Rodinal. Probably $10 for a bottle which will last a hundred rolls or more. Less for powdered.
6) Fixer. Kodafix. $10. Less for powdered.
7) Permawash. under $10. Makes washing film take 3 minutes instead of 30. Get's rid of the fixer left on film. Saves water.
8) Photoflow (optional), a few bucks. Keeps film from spotting.
9) A small graduated cylinder. For mixing your developer. Some people use syringes and other things for small quantities. If you are using powder, you don't need this.
10) A changing bag for loading your reels in complete darkness. $20 new.
11) Can opener (if doing 35mm)
12) Scissors.
13) Clothespins for hanging film.
14) a hanger (easiest way to hang film in the shower from the curtan rod)
That's about it. If you can find someone locally or on Ebay selling darkroom stuff you could probably pick up everything but the chemicals for next to nothing. If you bought everything brand new it would be around $100. Most of the stuff you will never have to replace. You don't use much Permawash or Photoflow (I've had the same bottles for years). It's basically just developer and fixer which you replace often. Cheaper if you use powders but I'm lazy and I live near B and H.
1) tank (small tank will do 2 35mm reels or 1 120 reel, a big tank will do 4 35mm or 2 120). I like steel here. Brand is fairly unimportant. Cost ~$20 new. Much less used.
2) 2 or 4 reels (deepending on what tank you bought). Here I would go for Hewes stainless steel reels which are about $20/each. You might find them used in good condition but you don't want them bent at all. Other people like plastic. Advantage of steel is that it is easy to try quickly and it doesn't have to be bone dry to use again. A plastic reel that is a little bit wet wil be super frustrating to load.
3) A big measuing cup for mixing chemicals (1 quart or 1000 milliteres). Probably about $5 new from a photo place, cheaper elsewhere.
4) A couple of brown bottles to store your chemicals (1 for fixer, 1 for permawash, 1 for Photoflow). Probably $10 total. I personally use water for stop so no need to store and I mix a fresh batch of 1 shot developer each time. People use things like old soda bottles here. I like the brown photo bottles myself.
5) Developer. Your choice. I like liquids like HC-110 or Rodinal. Probably $10 for a bottle which will last a hundred rolls or more. Less for powdered.
6) Fixer. Kodafix. $10. Less for powdered.
7) Permawash. under $10. Makes washing film take 3 minutes instead of 30. Get's rid of the fixer left on film. Saves water.
8) Photoflow (optional), a few bucks. Keeps film from spotting.
9) A small graduated cylinder. For mixing your developer. Some people use syringes and other things for small quantities. If you are using powder, you don't need this.
10) A changing bag for loading your reels in complete darkness. $20 new.
11) Can opener (if doing 35mm)
12) Scissors.
13) Clothespins for hanging film.
14) a hanger (easiest way to hang film in the shower from the curtan rod)
That's about it. If you can find someone locally or on Ebay selling darkroom stuff you could probably pick up everything but the chemicals for next to nothing. If you bought everything brand new it would be around $100. Most of the stuff you will never have to replace. You don't use much Permawash or Photoflow (I've had the same bottles for years). It's basically just developer and fixer which you replace often. Cheaper if you use powders but I'm lazy and I live near B and H.
themerinator
canteloupe shades
I guess even after spending a good deal of time in the dark room I still had no clue as to the cost of the developing accoutrement. Yeah I love the steel reels (even after hearing that loading your first steel reel could be a major pain). Thank you VERY much nightfly you've been very helpful (as well as the rest of you kind folks)!
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