Film?

[Bill Pierce]

Today new film cameras, although there are not many, seem to fall into two catagories. (1) Very affordable cameras like the Holgas that, in essence, carry on the tradition of the “box camera,” the family snapshot camera. (2) The very expensive cameras like the large format cameras that seem to range from $2,500 for a Toyo view to $13,500 for a Linhof Master Techniika. Sort of makes a Leica MP body at $5,700 seem reasonable.

As used film cameras in that medium price range rise in price, which they seem to be doing, and become less available, what is going to become of film photography? What’s going to happen to that broad range of film photographers somewhere in between the Holgas and the $13,500 technical cameras? I’m not really in a position to answer that question. News photographers switched to digital early in the game. But there are folks on this forum who are film shooters who are more than qualified to tell us what will happen to their world. And I would very much like to hear from them.

 

[Pál_K]

My thoughts are that the well-known and time-proven 35mm classics will continue to be in demand. Same with the better medium format cameras. It will be a niche market, as it is even now, but I think the truly critical issues in the next 20 years are film availability and the need for a new generation of repair techs.

 

[Evergreen States]

I hope we will see new film camera manufacturers, though I doubt there is enough demand to reach an economy of scale that would keep them at prices that are less than full frame digital. I imagine that in the next 5-10 years we will see a few startups that launch with Kickstarters that use a legacy lens mount. No new company is going to have the capital outlay to design and build an entire new lens mount from scratch for a film camera. I imagine a medium format camera would use the RZ or V mount (or even modular mounts), while a 135 format SLR would use F or M42. Eventually a company that makes it may decide to partner with an existing manufacturer (like Zenza Bronica did with Nikon back in the 1950s) or scrounge up design patents from defunct companies (or companies whose camera divisions are defunct).

I do not see existing digital camera manufacturers putting effort into film cameras. I imagine with how competitive the market has gotten with the adoption of mirrorless and the collapse of the compact camera market, no one would want to risk it. If anything, I expect we'll continue to see the field winnow.

 

[agentlossing]

Someone is going to make a slightly better, slightly more expensive film camera at some point... we may get a slow upward trend of them over time if successful, or we may have someone take a leap of faith and produce a nice film body for a legacy system or a high quality fixed lens camera. Also, I think the closest currently manufactured model to this idea presently is the Lomo LCA+. It doesn't have good focusing, and there's still that level of lomography unpredictability to certain things like the vignetting, but it's certainly better than the disposables or the nearly-disposable pseudo-cameras with plastic lenses. There's a wide version and a 120 version as well. We need to move upward from the point set by those.

 

[Evergreen States]

Someone is going to make a slightly better, slightly more expensive film camera at some point... we may get a slow upward trend of them over time if successful, or we may have someone take a leap of faith and produce a nice film body for a legacy system or a high quality fixed lens camera. Also, I think the closest currently manufactured model to this idea presently is the Lomo LCA+. It doesn't have good focusing, and there's still that level of lomography unpredictability to certain things like the vignetting, but it's certainly better than the disposables or the nearly-disposable pseudo-cameras with plastic lenses. There's a wide version and a 120 version as well. We need to move upward from the point set by those.

The high quality fixed lens is a product I had forgotten about when I had written my comment. But I think you're right. After all, Fujifilm released the X100 before deciding to dive into an entirely new ILC line.

Bellamy Hunt had written in 2017 he was working on developing a completely new 135 format premium compact. I've not heard any updates since, so I guess it's not happening.

 

[CMur12]

I think that those of us who originally shot film are probably well equipped still with film cameras. I, myself, have more of them than I can actually use. New adopters will be most affected by a shortage of equipment.

I doesn't seem practical to assume that anyone will produce new film cameras for moderate prices. Some automotive companies are actually re--offering parts and even factory reconditioning of long discontinued cars. Perhaps if the camera companies themselves or independents decided to make replacement parts for some of the more common and repairable film cameras, we could keep a lot of old equipment functioning much longer for a reasonable price.

What really concerns me is to hear photographers say it is cheaper to buy another old camera online than it is to repair an existing machine. This suggests that even current film photographers are binning potentially functional film cameras and removing them permanently from circulation. We mustn't do this!

- Murray

 

[Bill Blackwell]

... Today new film cameras, although there are not many, seem to fall into two categories. (1) Very affordable cameras ... (2) The very expensive cameras like the large format cameras that seem to range from $2,500 for a Toyo view to $13,500 for a Linhof Master Techniika. Sort of makes a Leica MP body at $5,700 seem reasonable.

As used film cameras in that medium price range rise in price, which they seem to be doing, and become less available, what is going to become of film photography? ...

Here we go again. ...

There has been a resurgence of film usage over the last five years or so causing the price of discontinued film cameras to exceed the price for which they were originally sold. And while film is still being produced it is in fairly small quantities; of course, this is keeping the price of film high too. I'm a hobbyist Leica M shooter and I actually prefer the "experience" of shooting my M2 film camera compared to my M10-P digital, but I much prefer the output results of the M10 digital. Of course, the results produced with larger formats - across the board - is substantially better. However, I believe film (from 35mm to 8x10) will be produced and available for some time yet.

For now, shooting film is "quaint", but the cost/output results compared to digital will eventually catch up to it. When that happens film will die a cold, hard, death and that [now] $5,700 Leica MP will become a very expensive paperweight. When that happens is anybody's guess.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Most won't be able to afford enough film, chemicals and paper for productive photography, not hipsta statement "I shoot film".

Nikon F(F2) cameras are build to lasts almost next forever. No need in new.

And as long as you are not a hipsta on the budget, but one is interested in film, film EOS cameras doesn't need to be new. They are more reliable than Canon's F1 junk.
Same for film rangefinders. I have little load of made in Japan ones. All they need is new curtains. The rest works. Those are not expensive at all, but not FSU garbage.

New means absolutely nothing for film.

But correction is needed.

https://intrepidcamera.co.uk/ LF cameras. New, not very expensive. Made in UK.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Here we go again. ...

There has been a resurgence of film usage over the last five years or so causing the price of discontinued film cameras to exceed the price for which they were originally sold. And while film is still being produced it is in fairly small quantities; of course, this is keeping the price of film high too. I'm a hobbyist Leica M shooter and I actually prefer the "experience" of shooting my M2 film camera compared to my M10-P digital, but I much prefer the output results of the M10 digital. Of course, the results produced with larger formats - across the board - is substantially better. However, I believe film (from 35mm to 8x10) will be produced and available for some time yet.

For now, shooting film is "quaint", but the cost/output results compared to digital will eventually catch up to it. When that happens film will die a cold, hard, death and that [now] $5,700 Leica MP will become a very expensive paperweight. When that happens is anybody's guess.[/QUOTE]
Ie. The same thing that was being said 10 or even 15 years ago.
Personally I think people will still be using it in a hundred years. The real question is going to be: how much?

There's zero difference between this discussion, and the film photographers who must have boldly declared the death of wet plate photography 100 years ago. And yet...in 2022, there are still people exposing wet and dry plates.

I'm presently chasing a kilometre or so of Soviet black and white cine film. It's gorgeous stuff. A friend living a couple of miles away has made his own environmentally-friendly developer from native Tasmanian plants. Impressive results. No matter what—I'm sticking it out until the end (my demise).

In terms of new cameras: the traditional camera market continues to get squeezed by the constant improvement in phone imaging. It seems inevitable more firms will exit the camera manufacturing business. Those who remain and are able to subsist on greatly reduced digital camera sales, might gain renewed interest in re-commencing supply of some legacy film models. It's not that simple, obviously. Existence of usable tooling would be a huge assist. But, there are precedents for this, and if your unit sales have dropped to, say, a third of your historical peak: the prospect of selling a few thousand film bodies may be viewed in a new light?

 

[das]

Eh. It depends on your shooting style. I find film to be economical if you are only shooting 4-5 rolls per month. I bought a mirrorless, which I now never use, because my phone can do everything that I would use a mirrorless for at 1/5 the time and effort. All that $$$ depreciation could have bought a ton of film. Also, film makes you be more deliberate with what you are shooting. An old pro photographer once advised me not to take a photo unless i would pay $2 for it. That changed my entire perspective.

 

[farlymac]

I'm not worried about the end of film. For one, I'm too old to get worked up about it. There are many fine digital cameras out now, and more to come later on that will satisfy me if suddenly film disappeared from the market place. I've already learned how to use digital cameras, even mirrorless models, and really appreciate that I can share photos with the World as soon as I can get them uploaded (sorry, World). Yeah, I'll miss film, but I'll adjust. We all, brothers and sisters, will learn to adjust.

PF

 

[zuiko85]

Meh, I’m over 70, overweight, type 2 diabetic, with high blood pressure. In the normal course of events I don’t expect the questions proffered to matter to me personally. If these film price increases keep on going the way they are it will finally kill off film anyway. Who is going to spend $50 on a roll of Tri-X!
And that is where it’s headed bucky. Fujifilm just announced 20-60% price increases, Kodak will follow. For how long can Ilford hold the line?
Good grief, what a bitter old fart I’ve become.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I'm thinking of clearing out some of the boxes and drawers of cameras that I have, mostly 35mm. Almost all working condition, which was fun for me. These used to be absurdly cheap, no one buying- especially if work was required. I have several Nikon F cameras "just given to me". I also like fruit cake, posted a sign at work "Unwanted Fruitcake Collection Center". Now, people give me film cameras.

Polaroid 600 film is sold in Walmart. I'm not worried about film disappearing for a long time.

 

[robert blu]

I use film for passion and all passions cost time and money. I have to accept it.
I shoot digital for convenience.

I can use the M7 and the M10 in almost the same way, same style.

I also use the Nikon FM2T (only minor difficulty the controls are reversed compared to Leica, muscle memory needs exercise!).
Sometimes I still use my father's Rollleiflex or my Holga or the Polaroid.

Because I mainly shoot on projects (personal projects) I select the tool in function of the project. It's nice to have choices.

The problem could be one day when one of the film camera will nbot work and it will be difficult or impossible to have it reoaired because no replacement parts or no techincian available.
Preowned film cameras are available if someone wants to try the experience, like here : NOC

At my age I'm conscious that I am not here forever either...let's enjoy the moment and the available tools 😉 film or digital make photos !

 

[Erik van Straten]

As long as there is film, there is hope.

gelatin silver print (color skopar 50mm f2.5) leica m3

Erik.

 

[Ambro51]

Hell Im Ready Ancient Plus X in a Perfex Speed Candid. I’ll bet you No One Else on the Planet Earth is shooting that combo today. Dead Film and Dead Cameras Live!!!

 

[ptpdprinter]

Also, film makes you be more deliberate with what you are shooting.

No. You have free will. You can choose to be deliberate or carefree when you shoot film or digital. It is entirely up to you.

An old pro photographer once advised me not to take a photo unless i would pay $2 for it. That changed my entire perspective.

If you ever use your digital camera again, you can apply the old pro photographer's advice to using it as well. Or not. It is entirely up to you.

 

[Erik van Straten]

gelatin silver print (summar 50mm f2) leica III

Erik.

 

[Guth]

I've got a couple of film cameras that I hope will serve me for as long as need be. Meanwhile I don't shoot enough film to be overly worried about film prices (not yet anyway).

Every time questions like this come up I point to the vinyl revival. Thirty years ago most people had declared vinyl to be dead following the arrival and widespread adoption of the CD. Of course not only has vinyl survived, but LP's ultimately ended up outselling CD's a few years back. CD's not only fell victim to LP's, but more importantly they lost out to streaming music services. Ironically, through issues involving streaming services, more and more people have come to realize the value of owning a physical copy of the music they enjoy and are increasingly turning to vinyl as a result.

Perhaps more important to this discussion, you now have people young and old alike who don't blink an eye at spending $30+ (the average cost these days) for a new LP. Many are willing to spend far more for certain recordings. Meanwhile, though plenty of older turntables remain in use selling at prices once unimaginable, new turntables can be found at a variety of prices ranging from low-budget options selling for less than some albums to the high end of the market with prices that make a Linhof Master Techniika look like a bargain. A person can easily drop hundreds of dollars just for a cartridge these days with some spending thousands. Another sign of how far things have come in the world of vinyl is that while not common by any means, there has even been a return of all-analog recording studios. As things sit right now, the biggest problem facing the world of vinyl is that there aren't enough pressing plants to keep up with the ever-growing demand.

With the above in mind, it is not hard for me to imagine that a number of those people wanting to shoot film going forward will be willing to spend a considerable amount of money to do so. While some might be choosing to give film photography a try these days because there are still quality cameras and film that can be had for relatively inexpensive prices, I would guess that there are plenty of others who have a variety of other reasons for choosing to do so. Just as with vinyl, we'll surely see people of all ages involved with film photography going forward, including plenty of younger people. Obviously quality used camera prices will continue to rise in such a scenario. To what extent this all plays out is anyone's guess. I can't deny that I am interested to see how things go over the remainder of my lifetime.

One final thought to consider is that if music, along with numerous other things, can evolve to the point of subscription-based services then so too could digital photography. In such a scenario, though prints could be made by the customer or ordered, the customer would never actually own an image file that works independently of a remote server in some form or fashion. The enticement would come by way of seriously reduced prices for the cameras that could only link to the remote service. The image files would be accessed by way of a subscription service, just as with countless other things in the digital realm these days.

 

[Timmyjoe]

There are so many high quality film cameras on the used market that anyone who wants to shoot film can buy in for a very reasonable price. Although the prices have definitely gone up in the last couple years. I've only bought one new film camera in the last 20 years, yet shoot miles of black and white film, and a bit of color transparency, in a bevy of nice film cameras, from 16mm up to 4x5.

Best,
-Tim