sgtnikolaix
Member
Got my first news related photos on the front page of a newspapers website today. They used 6 of the 9 I sent, both for their cover & gallery
(http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/firefighters-tackle-huge-blaze-oldham-5096845)
And its stirred my interest, but I was looking for some critique on the images I took.
I've posted others on my Flickr too, some of which weren't used - some converted to B&W (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sgtnikolaix/)
I can't help but feel they are very generic? I tried to focus on the building that was on fire, the owner & the firecrew at work. I sort of ignored the Police though as I didn't want to get escorted out. I also shot most of them at f1.4, one or two at 2.8, with a manual 50mm on an APS-C, which I actually liked, but also felt wrong for some reason. I'd just purchased the lens not an hour before.
Is there any critique as to how I can improve the images or any other helpful advice?
(http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/firefighters-tackle-huge-blaze-oldham-5096845)
And its stirred my interest, but I was looking for some critique on the images I took.
I've posted others on my Flickr too, some of which weren't used - some converted to B&W (http://www.flickr.com/photos/sgtnikolaix/)
I can't help but feel they are very generic? I tried to focus on the building that was on fire, the owner & the firecrew at work. I sort of ignored the Police though as I didn't want to get escorted out. I also shot most of them at f1.4, one or two at 2.8, with a manual 50mm on an APS-C, which I actually liked, but also felt wrong for some reason. I'd just purchased the lens not an hour before.
Is there any critique as to how I can improve the images or any other helpful advice?
Richard G
Veteran
Well, f1.4 isn't f8, but on the be there front you scored. And that's the bottom line. Higher ISO and even f4 might have made for some sharper pictures. For the 50 focal length on APS-C I think you did well with what you included. I kind of liked the three yellow helmeted heads, but it's not as if getting artistic is what you're looking for here. Hopefully some of the former newspaper guys will comment. Maybe a close-up of an anxious onlooker would add some drama. Or a child. (Neglectful landlord sees boy, 6, homeless.)
rscheffler
Well-known
My god, look at the purple fringing and glow off the helmets - I can't believe they'd run that.
Yeah, stopping down would have resulted in somewhat crisper images, but compared against the other contributor images in the gallery, you definitely got the best and closest images of the smoke and firefighters. However, they're all shots of guys standing around. Difficult to criticize without having been there - perhaps you were moved away before they started spraying the water, the Manchester Fire Department's Twitter feed included in the story has a couple nice images. Looks like they have a decent photographer among them.
I'm curious - does the Manchester Evening News even have photographers on staff? Just browsing through the site quickly and it seems like a lot of photography is reader submitted.
Would be nice if you could get some payment for these, though knowing the news industry, they sure love to get stuff for free.
Yeah, stopping down would have resulted in somewhat crisper images, but compared against the other contributor images in the gallery, you definitely got the best and closest images of the smoke and firefighters. However, they're all shots of guys standing around. Difficult to criticize without having been there - perhaps you were moved away before they started spraying the water, the Manchester Fire Department's Twitter feed included in the story has a couple nice images. Looks like they have a decent photographer among them.
I'm curious - does the Manchester Evening News even have photographers on staff? Just browsing through the site quickly and it seems like a lot of photography is reader submitted.
Would be nice if you could get some payment for these, though knowing the news industry, they sure love to get stuff for free.
Pablito
coco frío
Like Capa said, "If your photographs aren't good enough, you're not close enough."
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Never mind all that -- how much do they pay?
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
sgtnikolaix
Member
Cheers everyone,
@rscheffler - I wish I could have gotten the water sprays, but as they started to use them they moved everyone away (and I was on the other side). I do have one of them crawling under the shutters at the front of the building...But they were covered in smoke.
I'm not totally sure with regards to staff photographers - seems they just use journalists.
I was pretty much shooting at 1.4 for the hour I had the lens, then I got to this & thought it was just a small fire, so I thought I'd get some cool shots until they started moving everyone until I was the last left and I managed to stay lol.
I wish I could have gotten closer though, I wasn't sure how to play it though. I think a 135mm would have been very handy, I think I was lucky though to have bought the 50mm, before that I was using a 28mm.
The firecrew photographer was great I think, he was invisible as I never saw him, only the guy that writes down whats happening.
I settled for credit Roger, didn't think I should push my luck.
They used another image today on their front page, sadly a firefighter died in this.
@rscheffler - I wish I could have gotten the water sprays, but as they started to use them they moved everyone away (and I was on the other side). I do have one of them crawling under the shutters at the front of the building...But they were covered in smoke.
I'm not totally sure with regards to staff photographers - seems they just use journalists.
I was pretty much shooting at 1.4 for the hour I had the lens, then I got to this & thought it was just a small fire, so I thought I'd get some cool shots until they started moving everyone until I was the last left and I managed to stay lol.
I wish I could have gotten closer though, I wasn't sure how to play it though. I think a 135mm would have been very handy, I think I was lucky though to have bought the 50mm, before that I was using a 28mm.
The firecrew photographer was great I think, he was invisible as I never saw him, only the guy that writes down whats happening.
I settled for credit Roger, didn't think I should push my luck
.They used another image today on their front page, sadly a firefighter died in this.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
The drawback is, thought, that this gives them no incentive ever to pay anyone. I mean, congratulations on the pics, and the best of luck in future, but why bother unless there's money in it?Cheers everyone,
@rscheffler - I wish I could have gotten the water sprays, but as they started to use them they moved everyone away (and I was on the other side). I do have one of them crawling under the shutters at the front of the building...But they were covered in smoke.
I'm not totally sure with regards to staff photographers - seems they just use journalists.
I was pretty much shooting at 1.4 for the hour I had the lens, then I got to this & thought it was just a small fire, so I thought I'd get some cool shots until they started moving everyone until I was the last left and I managed to stay lol.
I wish I could have gotten closer though, I wasn't sure how to play it though. I think a 135mm would have been very handy, I think I was lucky though to have bought the 50mm, before that I was using a 28mm.
The firecrew photographer was great I think, he was invisible as I never saw him, only the guy that writes down whats happening.
I settled for credit Roger, didn't think I should push my luck
They used another image today on their front page, sadly a firefighter died in this.
This sounds horrible and harsh and cruel, and I might well have done the same as you when I was your age -- I'm 40 years older -- but when you see people giving stuff away, you have to wonder what their model is for (a) making a living and (b) allowing others to make a living.
Cheers,
R.
btgc
Veteran
Well, this things have to be learned quickly.
Once agency asked me permission to use two pictures (I took them with ancient 3mpix camera - but never ever tell this, pass only details they ask). I were smart enough to refuse their standard agreement and signed one allowing to use them only once for particular project and client. Also declined "we will give you credit" and asked credit and payment. Friend of mine laughed when I revealed sum and told I already spent too much time with them but this were my first deal and I learned something and didn't give away work for free. Well, I bough new original battery for a digital and charging it I realize my work funded it. Something like framed first dollar over counter.
Once agency asked me permission to use two pictures (I took them with ancient 3mpix camera - but never ever tell this, pass only details they ask). I were smart enough to refuse their standard agreement and signed one allowing to use them only once for particular project and client. Also declined "we will give you credit" and asked credit and payment. Friend of mine laughed when I revealed sum and told I already spent too much time with them but this were my first deal and I learned something and didn't give away work for free. Well, I bough new original battery for a digital
and charging it I realize my work funded it. Something like framed first dollar over counter.
Damaso
Photojournalist
Don't tilt the camera unless someone is knocking you down.
Yup!!!!!!!!!!!!
Damaso
Photojournalist
First, congrats! Second looking at your Flickr site I would say you over rely on mood and atmosphere to make your images interesting.
For example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sgtnikolaix/6976912518/
Stay away from tricks, high contrast, titled perspectives etc. Most importantly if you're serious about the news business you need to learn to tell a story through several images. This of course takes time. I would start working on a long term project, something that could become a photo essay...
Good luck!
For example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sgtnikolaix/6976912518/
Stay away from tricks, high contrast, titled perspectives etc. Most importantly if you're serious about the news business you need to learn to tell a story through several images. This of course takes time. I would start working on a long term project, something that could become a photo essay...
Good luck!
rscheffler
Well-known
Cheers everyone,
@rscheffler - I wish I could have gotten the water sprays, but as they started to use them they moved everyone away (and I was on the other side). I do have one of them crawling under the shutters at the front of the building...But they were covered in smoke.
I'm not totally sure with regards to staff photographers - seems they just use journalists.
I was pretty much shooting at 1.4 for the hour I had the lens, then I got to this & thought it was just a small fire, so I thought I'd get some cool shots until they started moving everyone until I was the last left and I managed to stay lol.
I wish I could have gotten closer though, I wasn't sure how to play it though. I think a 135mm would have been very handy, I think I was lucky though to have bought the 50mm, before that I was using a 28mm.
The firecrew photographer was great I think, he was invisible as I never saw him, only the guy that writes down whats happening.
I settled for credit Roger, didn't think I should push my luck
They used another image today on their front page, sadly a firefighter died in this.
Thanks for the added info. That's why I said it's difficult to criticize without having been there. Well, at least your photos weren't all tilted like Scott Dawson's
. This might be a situation where had you been there with 'pro-looking' gear, you probably would have been able to hang around a bit longer, if you acted the part. But I'm not advocating you go out and buy big DSLRs just for this, since the chances of a repeat are very slim.Regarding payment, you're in a situation where others are also giving away the work (the other bystanders) and the images from Manchester Fire likely were also freebies to PA. I'm not saying you should have given them away, but that had you asked for payment, MEN probably would have declined seeing how they received many other photos.
Where I live, the local paper has a specific email for reader photo submissions for exactly these kinds of circumstances. One recent example was when a new, expensive parkway, as well as many people's basements flooded after a torrential rain. What they don't tell you is that when you email your photo to them, it doesn't just sit in some generic inbox. Rather, it's sucked right into the entire news chain's shared photo database for any of the publications to access.
This is the decision each of us has to make about being a crowd-source contributor, and unfortunately there are always many people who will give the images without even thinking of receiving payment, despite the fact these organizations generate a lot of revenue. As it turned out, this became a major news story because a firefighter died as a result of the fire. Maybe you have the last photo of him before entering the building? These are the things that are unpredictable about news photography and why retaining rights, controlling usage and receiving payment is desirable over the long term. Because what starts off as something ordinary, can become extraordinary, either minutes, hours, months or years later and you might be the only one with 'the' image, which suddenly has much greater value than before. Here's a great example by photographer Dirk Halstead about Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton.
I just had another look through the gallery and yes, the fire department's photographer is very good. It's quite interesting to see that PA picked up the fire department's photos and underlines a somewhat disturbing trend in the news industry (disturbing at least for those with traditional views of the industry), that is, the increasing reliance of newspapers, etc., on media releases as primary sources of information, including such hand out photos. The concern is about transparency, where an organization such as the fire department, or the police, might only release images that are in their best interest to release, and not necessarily in the best interest of the public's right to know. This is why an independent media is important. With the erosion of the traditional news media, more and more organizations (public and private) are using their own media relations departments to feed the public carefully curated information via the media, desperate for fresh news.
I find it very interesting, that in this age of easy information, the number of unique original sources of information seems to be decreasing rather than increasing. What is increasing are the number of entities that recycle, repackage and redistribute someone else's original content, with slight changes.
Sorry, a bit OT and I thank Nick for starting this thread.
Ruhayat
Well-known
I like the B&W versions in your Flickr more than the published ones, which also looked blurry compared to the ones in your stream. It's easy to comment on hindsight, but I guess if there's a next time:
1. Use smaller aperture, as some people have said above;
2. Work for more dramatic compositions - the first one, for example, I would have put the standee signage by the roadside in the foreground, and closer to my camera as an ironic/witty/smartalecky juxtapositioning to the seriousness in the background.
Also, I like my news photos in wide angle views, but maybe that's just conditioning after looking at so many classic PJ shots that were done with 28mm and 35mm.
1. Use smaller aperture, as some people have said above;
2. Work for more dramatic compositions - the first one, for example, I would have put the standee signage by the roadside in the foreground, and closer to my camera as an ironic/witty/smartalecky juxtapositioning to the seriousness in the background.
Also, I like my news photos in wide angle views, but maybe that's just conditioning after looking at so many classic PJ shots that were done with 28mm and 35mm.
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Vince Lupo
Whatever
The one thing that's always a challenge when you're starting out is to get that first 'published piece'. It's something like 'We're not going to hire you because you have no experience.' 'Well how do I get the experience if you don't hire me?'.
So now you have that first published piece (BTW did it run in the print edition?), and now you have something to show someone for another job. Plus, you've made a connection with the editor there. Not being paid for the photos is a bit of a bummer, but I do definitely understand the whole photo credit thing, particularly when you're starting out. Been down that road!
If you're interested in pursuing 'news' photography a bit more, find out if there's an Associated Press office near you, or if there's a way that you could be a 'stringer' for the AP in your area -- they are always looking for people. Not a lot of money in it, BUT it will give you the experience of working quickly, getting the image, understanding the importance of a deadline, maybe even caption writing, and will surely put you in some interesting situations. I did that for three years for the AP office in both Washington DC and Baltimore, Maryland, and it was a great foundation-builder. Plus I got to meet all kinds of politicians, celebrities, and it even landed me a gig at Tom Clancy's house (the author of Hunt for Red October etc) hosting the Duke of Edinburgh (yeah, odd combination I know) for a small dinner party. So weird and wonderful things like that can happen through working for the AP.
Let us know what happens next!
So now you have that first published piece (BTW did it run in the print edition?), and now you have something to show someone for another job. Plus, you've made a connection with the editor there. Not being paid for the photos is a bit of a bummer, but I do definitely understand the whole photo credit thing, particularly when you're starting out. Been down that road!
If you're interested in pursuing 'news' photography a bit more, find out if there's an Associated Press office near you, or if there's a way that you could be a 'stringer' for the AP in your area -- they are always looking for people. Not a lot of money in it, BUT it will give you the experience of working quickly, getting the image, understanding the importance of a deadline, maybe even caption writing, and will surely put you in some interesting situations. I did that for three years for the AP office in both Washington DC and Baltimore, Maryland, and it was a great foundation-builder. Plus I got to meet all kinds of politicians, celebrities, and it even landed me a gig at Tom Clancy's house (the author of Hunt for Red October etc) hosting the Duke of Edinburgh (yeah, odd combination I know) for a small dinner party. So weird and wonderful things like that can happen through working for the AP.
Let us know what happens next!
I was a news photographer for 35 years, worked for the world's largest news gathering organization -- and so on. When you're at a fire you kind of have to shoot what is there, don't you? I would say that f1.4 is probably not the best f stop to use unless you really have to. In all my years I think I had one photo published that was taken at f1.4. It was the only photo I ever had printed in Life magazine. So what do I know? I think the general idea was to get your stuff published and you did. So it worked. With more experience you will perhaps discern that an emergency scene is like a ballet and you will be able to anticipate the choreography, as it were, better. The first news photo I ever had published was of a road accident in rural Utah for which I was paid $3. (That was a long time ago.) It wasn't very good, but it was good enough for the small, rural Utah newspaper. You gotta start somewhere.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Wish I was earning royalties off one of my Tom Clancy photos -- seems almost every news organization is running it. Ah well, it belongs to AP!
http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/277126/158/Author-Tom-Clancy-dies-at-66
http://www.wusa9.com/news/article/277126/158/Author-Tom-Clancy-dies-at-66
leicapixie
Well-known
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134687
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134687
The joy of the first credit.
Being published, a major moment.
Now, never give a photo away..never.
Rather nothing happens.
When i started pro photography seriously,
i was approached by an Art Director of one
of the world's largest ad agencies..
He wanted a major cut of any payment i received.
I showed him the door.
I would have lost credibility for myself
and add to that, pay taxes on the gross amount!
It was a bad deal.
If a deal starts badly, it ends worse.
Even the poorest street walkers know not to be free..
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134687
The joy of the first credit.
Being published, a major moment.
Now, never give a photo away..never.
Rather nothing happens.
When i started pro photography seriously,
i was approached by an Art Director of one
of the world's largest ad agencies..
He wanted a major cut of any payment i received.
I showed him the door.
I would have lost credibility for myself
and add to that, pay taxes on the gross amount!
It was a bad deal.
If a deal starts badly, it ends worse.
Even the poorest street walkers know not to be free..
leicapixie
Well-known
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134687
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134687
The problem of internet is being "re-blogged".
i only post images of extremely small dimensions with watermark..i delete all old posts on some sites..
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134687
A really nice portrait of an amazing writer.
The problem of internet is being "re-blogged".
i only post images of extremely small dimensions with watermark..i delete all old posts on some sites..
Vince Lupo
Whatever
A really nice portrait of an amazing writer.
The problem of internet is being "re-blogged".
i only post images of extremely small dimensions with watermark..i delete all old posts on some sites..
Yes, quite true, not to mention the dreaded Pinterest. As far as that particular shot of Tom Clancy goes, I did it in 1998 for the AP (at the time he was trying to buy the Minnesota Vikings football team for $202 million), so the photo is AP's property. I got paid $120 for that assignment (at the time, it was $100 per assignment that was inside the DC Beltway, and $120 if it was outside the DC Beltway). The nice thing was that they only kept the film negs of the photos that they used, the rest you could have (and I still have them). Plus I ended up getting that personal job with Tom at his house for the Duke of Edinburgh dinner party.
One shot that they didn't run. I shot everything with my M2:
Tom Clancy by Vince.Lupo, on Flickr