Flash Question

[kully]

Hallo,

I know 'flash' is a dirty word, but I missed significant shots I would have liked during my holiday - so I want one.

ReidReviews man talks of the Vivitar 285/283 in his review of the Epson RD1, apparently is has a sensor to regulate the flash output. This seems like exactly what I want because I would be bouncing the flash for 90% of its use.

I'm trying to figure out how it works though - does it fire off a pre-flash before the main to figure stuff out? I ask because I have a Centon FG-20 as well, that has a sensor on the front which you set for one of two distances - but it only fires once.

Also, can anyone recommend this or another flash (for a R2a)? I'm a young newbie and I've tried and found manually working out the settings for a flash are not for me.

cheers,
kully

 

[Toby]

The 283 works exactly the same as your centon flash. It has a thyristor on the front of the flash body which cuts out the power when enough light hits it from the flash. It has 4 settings and a manual option with a distance scale for each of the 4 settings on the body depending on film iso.

 

[Meleica]

flash is NOT a dirty word...in fact, one of the great amateur photo mistakes is to NOT use flash outdoors as fill....

If there is one thing I could tell amateurs that would improve their photos - it would be TURN YOUR FLASH ON IN BRIGHT OUTDOOR LIGHT !!!

 

[XAos]

Just got a sunpak 120j and I love it. Shot some Fomapan 100 in the RB67 with it, dunked in diafine. The tones came out BEAUTIFULLY - despite being overxposed a stop. (I shot it at 100 planning to try D-76, got lazy and dunked it in Diafine. Fomapan and Diafine give lovely tones. Really creamy - I was just about fed up with Diafine until I saw this.)

I never understood the auto-aperture part of my 283 - I thought the little wheel was just a convenient calculator. But I've lost my 283 and can't find it. If it doesn't turn up I'll probably add a Sunpak 383 instead of going back to the Viv 283. Auto flash is wonderful, it makes the RB much less fiddly. I can pretty much walk around and guess at lighting now with Sunny-16 and auto-flash.

 

[PikesPeak]

I have a 283 and used for some 20 years, but now it pretty much has given up the ghost. Am using several Nikons. The SB28 on A (for Automatic) will
make perfect pictures on my Bessa R2 and on the R3a as well.
Good luck, PikesPeak

 

[PikesPeak]

One more thing, Kully. The SB28 does a great job as fill flash even in the
daytime. BTW, there is nothing to calculate and I'm sure that other brands
can do the same thing, but they must have an Automatic setting.

 

[clarence]

The wheel on the side of the 283 is there merely to help you see which coloured Auto setting you should use for the corresponding Aperture/ Film Speed combination.

The main benefit of the thyristor is that within a certain distance, it automatically shuts off the circuit when it has received enough reflected light from the flash. From my experience with the 283, I've found that the thyristor does not work well at long ranges, and when your subject is not in the center. In those cases, it tends towards overexposure.

Clarence

 

[XAos]

The wheel on the side of the 283 is there merely to help you see which coloured Auto setting you should use for the corresponding Aperture/ Film Speed combination.

I thought about this after I wrote it. I've not seen my Viv in a while, I do remember the color wheel on the sensor now. Wish I could find that puppy.

The main benefit of the thyristor is that within a certain distance, it automatically shuts off the circuit when it has received enough reflected light from the flash. From my experience with the 283, I've found that the thyristor does not work well at long ranges, and when your subject is not in the center. In those cases, it tends towards overexposure.

Clarence

This is true for all auto anythings. But it's still only a guide. If you're expecting it, you can set the flash for f/8 and the camera for f/5.6 if you like. I had an otherwise ok shot underexposed because of a flash reflection in the wndow. My bad - shoulda seen that one coming. Was able to clone the window pane out and reset levels though and still got a useable shot though - good enough for mom's scrapbook anyway.

 

[kully]

Thanks for all the replies - I've learnt something new today.

I think I'll try out the Centon before putting any bids down for any other flash (even though it only has a GN of 20m/ISO100).

 

[Jason Sprenger]

I don't believe that Vivitar 283's or 285's are available new. Though they were made forever, so getting a used one shouldn't be too difficult.

I have a Sunpack 383 that works out well for me when I'm out with my small bag. A smaller flash might be more in line with the portability of a rangefinder but there's no replacement for power when you need power.

If I know I will need a flash, I go with my Sunpack 544 handle flash. Not only are there two more batteries, meaning more flashes, the handle makes the package more convenient than a flash perched on the hot shoe.

If you go with flash, it pays to get familar with a diffuser and bounce to avoid the "struck by a flashlight" look. A small white card rubberbanded to the back of the head pointing straight up or almost straight up also produces a softer light and stores much easier than some other diffusing attachments.

 

[dadsm3]

Vivitar 285HV's are still available new in Canada at Henry's for about $200CDN I think.
Without hijacking the thread, let me get this straight regarding outdoor fill flash: Being constrained to 1/50th with a Leica M, I meter 100ISO which reads F5.6....then I just look on the flash and set the colour indicated under the F5.6? (???How can this NOT be overexposed, I've already metered F5.6, and now I'm adding light with the flash?)
Besides that question, if I wanted less fill flash would I not set the colour under F4 on the flash, since the flash believes I'm using a larger aperture and hence need less light?

 

[clarence]

Without hijacking the thread, let me get this straight regarding outdoor fill flash: Being constrained to 1/50th with a Leica M, I meter 100ISO which reads F5.6....then I just look on the flash and set the colour indicated under the F5.6? (???How can this NOT be overexposed, I've already metered F5.6, and now I'm adding light with the flash?)
Besides that question, if I wanted less fill flash would I not set the colour under F4 on the flash, since the flash believes I'm using a larger aperture and hence need less light?

I learnt how to use fill flash from Dante Stella's excellent tutorial:
http://www.dantestella.com/technical/fill.html

I'm not completely sure about the following, so I would appreciate any advice if anyone notices that something I'm saying is wrong.

In the case of non-TTL auto thyristor flashes, what you mentioned about 'adding light' and resulting in overexposure is true, in theory, because light is additive. In practice, though, ambient light hardly matters, and the thyristor takes care of things easily enough.

With regards to your second question, from what I understand, you have the option of using either full fill flash or half power fill. The former makes the flash your primary light source, while the latter makes the flash your secondary light source. Selecting an auto mode corresponding to an aperture larger than the aperture you are actually using should be able to achieve the half-fill effect. This is especially useful for just removing shadows in eye sockets, or under the brim of a hat.

Clarence

 

[dadsm3]

Thanks Clarence, very informative and helpful. I think I'll give it a try, despite Dante's statement that a 1/50th synch speed is next to useless....had some bad luck with some family pics under a covered swing set.

 

[clarence]

Thanks Clarence, very informative and helpful. I think I'll give it a try, despite Dante's statement that a 1/50th synch speed is next to useless....had some bad luck with some family pics under a covered swing set.

I found the 1/50 sync speed 'useless' because you won't be able to use any lenses with focal lengths longer than 50mm. You could try, if you've got really steady hands, but you'll probably end up with blurred pictures.

Have fun!

Clarence

 

[Huck Finn]

Does anyone see any reason for fast lenses when you're using flash? Except of course to limit depth of field.

 

[clarence]

Does anyone see any reason for fast lenses when you're using flash? Except of course to limit depth of field.

Assuming shutter speed stays as high as possible, with a larger aperture you could let in more ambient light and reduce your reliance on the flash as a light source. It makes for more 'natural' lighting.

Clarence