Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
I'll probably be on the Fuji X100 train (or still on the Leica M juggernaut) next spring (or whenever I finish thinning the amount of film equipment I have - way out of line with my free time).
If I wanted to reuse some Konica SLR lenses from the 1970s and some modern M lenses, which Micro 4/3 or NEX camera would you suggest? Assume that the major purpose is using old lenses, not anything really native M4/3.
The E-PL looks interesting both because it is cheap and because it's light. It also has stabilization. For that matter, the E-P1 could do the trick (and seems to be going for a song used on Ebay lately - which somehow doesn't surprise me).
The NEX (well, reportedly) has good high-iso performance and preserves more of the angle of view of the lenses (as well as the aspect ratio). But it lacks any type of accessory capability.
The Panasonics apparently are better as Micro 4/3 cameras (with a lot faster autofocus) but lack any kind stabilization in-body. They are also the most expensive of the bunch.
Has anyone used more than one or compared all of these? One thing that is difficult to gauge is whether accessory finders or EVFs are really beneficial for using lenses like a 57mm f/1.2.
If I wanted to reuse some Konica SLR lenses from the 1970s and some modern M lenses, which Micro 4/3 or NEX camera would you suggest? Assume that the major purpose is using old lenses, not anything really native M4/3.
The E-PL looks interesting both because it is cheap and because it's light. It also has stabilization. For that matter, the E-P1 could do the trick (and seems to be going for a song used on Ebay lately - which somehow doesn't surprise me).
The NEX (well, reportedly) has good high-iso performance and preserves more of the angle of view of the lenses (as well as the aspect ratio). But it lacks any type of accessory capability.
The Panasonics apparently are better as Micro 4/3 cameras (with a lot faster autofocus) but lack any kind stabilization in-body. They are also the most expensive of the bunch.
Has anyone used more than one or compared all of these? One thing that is difficult to gauge is whether accessory finders or EVFs are really beneficial for using lenses like a 57mm f/1.2.
I went for the Olympus line because the Electronic Viewfinder is really good. I can use the camera screen with an Af lens, but manual focus- I always use the EVF. The adapters for the u43 are cheap on Ebay, and I picked up one for the Konica lenses- so far have only used my Konica 28/1.8 with the EP2.
Konica 28/1.8, wide-open and closest focus, hand-held on the EP2.
Focus using the Electronic Viewfinder.
Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.4, "NKT", Leica Thread Mount, wide-open and closest focus, on the EP2.
Nice to be able to use the Nikkor LTM lenses at 18".
Konica 28/1.8, wide-open and closest focus, hand-held on the EP2.
Focus using the Electronic Viewfinder.
Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.4, "NKT", Leica Thread Mount, wide-open and closest focus, on the EP2.
Nice to be able to use the Nikkor LTM lenses at 18".
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kshapero
South Florida Man
What accessory capability does it lack?
jl-lb.ms
John A. Lever
The Lumix G1 is a steal now, $299 for the body: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC...8BE6/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1291567209&sr=8-4
You can add an adapter for (expensive) $180 or so from Cameraquest, or cheap $40 from Fotodiox
http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Thirds-Olympus-Panasonic/dp/B002RJFD7C\
I don't know if there's an appreciable difference between the Voigtlander adapter and the Fotodiox. I'd love to hear if someone else does.
You can add an adapter for (expensive) $180 or so from Cameraquest, or cheap $40 from Fotodiox
http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Adapter-Thirds-Olympus-Panasonic/dp/B002RJFD7C\
I don't know if there's an appreciable difference between the Voigtlander adapter and the Fotodiox. I'd love to hear if someone else does.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Gosh, beautiful shots.I went for the Olympus line because the Electronic Viewfinder is really good. I can use the camera screen with an Af lens, but manual focus- I always use the EVF. The adapters for the u43 are cheap on Ebay, and I picked up one for the Konica lenses- so far have only used my Konica 28/1.8 with the EP2.
Konica 28/1.8, wide-open and closest focus, hand-held on the EP2.
Focus using the Electronic Viewfinder.
Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.4, "NKT", Leica Thread Mount, wide-open and closest focus, on the EP2.
Nice to be able to use the Nikkor LTM lenses at 18".
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
I'd go for a G-1 at that price, were I in the market right now.
kshapero
South Florida Man
I have adapters from Rainbow Imaging ($30) and from CameraQuest. I can not tell the difference.
ampguy
Veteran
Hi Dante, I'm in the same boat. I'm going to try to wait until the Nex prices come down, which looks to be soon. The sony site has both lenses with the nex 5 for $799, but I plan to use MF lenses only, and definitely would not want to use the kit zoom.
The u4/3 at $299 (GF1) and EPL1 at $399-$499 often with 2 lenses is certainly attractive, but if you pixel peep, or stop down, you'll see the u4/3 IQ is just not up there.
I follow a blog where a GF1 user posts weekly or so, and almost all of his shots are overly sharpened, and have diffraction, I think he stops down, and then uses sharpening in pp, but I have a high ppi monitor (wsxga+) on 14" giving > 130ppi and it's just horrible IQ.
The u4/3 at $299 (GF1) and EPL1 at $399-$499 often with 2 lenses is certainly attractive, but if you pixel peep, or stop down, you'll see the u4/3 IQ is just not up there.
I follow a blog where a GF1 user posts weekly or so, and almost all of his shots are overly sharpened, and have diffraction, I think he stops down, and then uses sharpening in pp, but I have a high ppi monitor (wsxga+) on 14" giving > 130ppi and it's just horrible IQ.
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
FrozenInTime
Well-known
More than a year ago when it was launched, I went for the EP-1 and bought the Novoflex M mount adapter.
The results with M wides were disappointing ; worse or no better than the kit lenses, and the MF handling with long or fast lenses awkward.
I would have sold it long ago if the wonderful little panasonic 20 f/1.7 had not come along.
I have my hopes pinned on a high end APS sensor EVIL with EVF next year :
perhaps the Ricoh GXR M-mount ; Sony NEX7 or Pentax EVIL ....
Unless you have an immediate need or run across a bargain, it's going to be worth waiting rather than buying now.
The results with M wides were disappointing ; worse or no better than the kit lenses, and the MF handling with long or fast lenses awkward.
I would have sold it long ago if the wonderful little panasonic 20 f/1.7 had not come along.
I have my hopes pinned on a high end APS sensor EVIL with EVF next year :
perhaps the Ricoh GXR M-mount ; Sony NEX7 or Pentax EVIL ....
Unless you have an immediate need or run across a bargain, it's going to be worth waiting rather than buying now.
rickp
Well-known
if you're not into HD movies or touch screens, try the G1. you might find one for less $ than the external viewfinders for other models?
the voigtländer adapter to Leica M was a perfect match.
good luck with your choice
rick
example is G1 + 1946 hektor with extension tubes
the voigtländer adapter to Leica M was a perfect match.
good luck with your choice
rick
example is G1 + 1946 hektor with extension tubes
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PCB_RF
Established
There are no bad choices in the bunch, the trick is determining which best meets your own needs, with the understanding that you almost always have to compromise. We're definitely in YMMV territory. I'd start by ranking the importance of the following factors/features:
1. EVF?
2. IBIS?
3. Crop factor?
4. High-ISO performance?
5. Legacy wide-angle lens corner performance?
6. External flash?
7. Video performance?
8. Compactness?
9. Handling?
If you need IBIS, Oly is your only choice. IBIS/EVF means EPL1/EP2, but you can't use EVF and external flash simultaneously, you've got the 2x crop factor and compromised legacy wide corner performance.
NEX gets the nod for lower crop factor, better legacy wide corners and best high-ISO performance. But there's no IBIS, EVF or external flash, and not everyone gets along with the interface.
Only internal-EVF Pana (everything but the GF1) has the ability to use EVF/flash simulataneously, and it's more compact than Oly with EVF. GH2 should have the best video, and the flip screen/touch screen can improve handling. No IBIS and the same m4/3 sensor and image compromises as Oly.
I think you'll need to play with all the cameras. You might really bond with one, hopefully you'll find something you can at least tolerate.
1. EVF?
2. IBIS?
3. Crop factor?
4. High-ISO performance?
5. Legacy wide-angle lens corner performance?
6. External flash?
7. Video performance?
8. Compactness?
9. Handling?
If you need IBIS, Oly is your only choice. IBIS/EVF means EPL1/EP2, but you can't use EVF and external flash simultaneously, you've got the 2x crop factor and compromised legacy wide corner performance.
NEX gets the nod for lower crop factor, better legacy wide corners and best high-ISO performance. But there's no IBIS, EVF or external flash, and not everyone gets along with the interface.
Only internal-EVF Pana (everything but the GF1) has the ability to use EVF/flash simulataneously, and it's more compact than Oly with EVF. GH2 should have the best video, and the flip screen/touch screen can improve handling. No IBIS and the same m4/3 sensor and image compromises as Oly.
I think you'll need to play with all the cameras. You might really bond with one, hopefully you'll find something you can at least tolerate.
usayit
Well-known
IBIS and EVF narrowed my choice to Olympus; Either E-PL1 or E-P2. IBIS is simply a nice thing to have with legacy lenses (M42 and M-mount). Chose the E-PL1 for the following reasons:
* Dedicated Magnification button
* My eyes liked the samples better. (http://www.imaging-resource.com has some)
I also have a G1 which are going for really low prices now. Good camera too...
* Dedicated Magnification button
* My eyes liked the samples better. (http://www.imaging-resource.com has some)
I also have a G1 which are going for really low prices now. Good camera too...
I've owned G1, GH1; have used the Olympus models.
I sold the Panasonic in favor of a NEX5. The improved interface is better than the Oly interface, IMHO.
For my needs, flash was irrelevant, high ISO and 1.5x crop factor trumped image stabilization and EVF.
I sold the Panasonic in favor of a NEX5. The improved interface is better than the Oly interface, IMHO.
For my needs, flash was irrelevant, high ISO and 1.5x crop factor trumped image stabilization and EVF.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
That is how this person is processing his imagery. The Panasonic Gs have great IQ. I love the look of the Lumix files, but I only process RAW files. When the need is down and dirty, they can produce wonderful jpeg files.
I also don't see the point in shooting legacy lenses unless you really want to and have no other choice. I find the lenses that were designed for the M 4/3 system work best. I don't see any advantage to using legacy lenses unless you don't want to shell out the money for lenses designed for the system. I recently got the 14/2.5 Lumix lens and it is fantastic. This lens along with the GF1 body, I also use the accessory EVF finder, is truly coat pocketable.
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douglasf13
Well-known
Dante, the NEX series has an accessory port on top that accepts various accessories, and I assume there will be an EVF at some point.
For me, the crop factor and sensor performance was the biggest deal in me picking the NEX-5. If I do need to shoot at eye level, I use a Clearviewer, which works rather well as an EVF alternative, and folds nice and flat (and folds out of the way of the tilt lcd.) The camera's new firmware makes the UI much more usable, as well.
For me, the crop factor and sensor performance was the biggest deal in me picking the NEX-5. If I do need to shoot at eye level, I use a Clearviewer, which works rather well as an EVF alternative, and folds nice and flat (and folds out of the way of the tilt lcd.) The camera's new firmware makes the UI much more usable, as well.
hub
Crazy French
Each time I wanted to try the NEX with the pancake and the optical Viewfinder I couldn't, because none of the Sony store did have it (apparently the idiot in management told them that unless customer to buy a viewfinder they wouldn't gonna get it) and they are the only one apparently carrying the camera here. That's how Sony lost a sale with me.
I went E-P1 instead. I miss the EVF though but also I use it with native lenses for now.
I went E-P1 instead. I miss the EVF though but also I use it with native lenses for now.
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
Hi Dante,
You have to try by yourself. I have tried Panasonic and Olympus M4/3 cameras, as well as Sony's Next series. The Sony cameras are nice and have a bigger sensor, but they are much to automated for my taste. The Panasonic have a few drawbacks (no auto rotation of images when using a legacy lens, no autofocus with 4/3 lenses, etc.), so I went for the Olympus EP-1. Best image quality (at least for out of camera images), built-in stabilizer, small and easy to use. The lack of a viewfinder doesn't bother me at all -- just think of it as a view camera, only smaller. For critical focus, I use a HoodLoupe. Another advantage for M4/3 over Sony Next is that you can use cine lenses in C-Mount with a cheap adapter: lots of fun with these old Petzval and other exotic lenses.
Cheers!
Abbazz
You have to try by yourself. I have tried Panasonic and Olympus M4/3 cameras, as well as Sony's Next series. The Sony cameras are nice and have a bigger sensor, but they are much to automated for my taste. The Panasonic have a few drawbacks (no auto rotation of images when using a legacy lens, no autofocus with 4/3 lenses, etc.), so I went for the Olympus EP-1. Best image quality (at least for out of camera images), built-in stabilizer, small and easy to use. The lack of a viewfinder doesn't bother me at all -- just think of it as a view camera, only smaller. For critical focus, I use a HoodLoupe. Another advantage for M4/3 over Sony Next is that you can use cine lenses in C-Mount with a cheap adapter: lots of fun with these old Petzval and other exotic lenses.
Cheers!
Abbazz
douglasf13
Well-known
If you shoot in PASM modes, nothing on the NEX is too automatic, and the new firmware allows good button customization. You can use C lenses as well, but you may have to crop in the raw converter if the vignetting is bad.
True, the smaller image circle may require cropping due to the larger APS sensor of the NEX. Then one would still end up with a ~2x crop factor but with a better sensor.