Found 120 film

[Lauffray]

hey everyone

This past weekend my girlfriend found a few bags of old 120 film. They were kept in her cousin's basement in plastic bags so not refrigerated, and they're all expired since around 2004. It's a mix of 400 and 3200 speed film, mostly BW negative, I think I saw a few colour (Ilford HP5, Ilford Delta 3200, Kodak TriX, Technical Pan and a bunch I forgot too)

I've since put them in my fridge of course but I'm afraid the damage is done. Can these be shot and developed with a reasonable expectation of quality or should I not even bother ?

I know the obvious answer is "try and see" but I haven't gotten around to actually doing that just yet

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

The slower films may be reasonable, they'll shed effective speed and fog at a slower rate. With the D3200 all bets are off. But if you have multiple rolls you don't have much to lose. Run one of the 3200s off (no hard data but I'd be shooting at EI400 or even slower, personally) and hope the base fog is not too bad. The Tech Pan is something of a cult film, and if it is in decent condition, may even be worth a little money. You could see if Brad Pitt wants to buy it for family pics of his wife? When he shot Angelina for some magazine a few years ago, they looked high and low for Tech Pan because that's what he wanted to shoot her with. True story! 😉
Cheers,
Brett

 

[Lauffray]

Run one of the 3200s off (no hard data but I'd be shooting at EI400 or even slower, personally) and hope the base fog is not too bad.

Thanks Brett,

Is that usual practice, overexposing expired film with high ISO ? I was looking forward to the extra speed :-/

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Thanks Brett,

Is that usual practice, overexposing expired film with high ISO ? I was looking forward to the extra speed :-/

Films generally lose speed as they age, faster ones the most rapidly, so the short answer I suppose, is "yes". Storage conditions can affect the end result, of course, but with over ten years out of date I would have expected it to drop by at least half, if not more, and don't forget whilst it's named Delta 3200, most suggest it has a "box speed" or true ISO (depending on the developer, of course), of around 1000-1200 or thereabouts (but it pushes well to higher exposure indices, hence the "3200" name).

I'm almost 180 degrees opposite, in that I tend to load Delta 100, Acros, Pan F or FP4 Plus, much more often. Having said that, I've shot a few rolls of Delta 3200 indoors or at concerts this year, and, surprisingly for me, I've really been liking it. So grab a few fresh rolls and give it a try, I think there is a lot to like about the film. Here is a link to a blog article with some shots made with Delta 3200 @ EI 3200 (also some with Acros 100, all images are tagged with details).
Cheers
Brett

 

[Lauffray]

Excellent, thanks ! I don't remember if there was some 100 speed film in the bag, but in case there is those should be ok at 100 or should I overexpose them too ?

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

With all the films now expired by ten years or more, and being black and white negative, anyway, which in general tolerates overexposure better than underexposure, yes, I'd suggest being generous with exposure there, also. I'd probably start with EI 40 or 50, metered for the shadows, of course, and (bearing in mind some people would do this anyway with fresh films, and still get entirely satisfactory results), this should, at least, give you some insurance against loss of speed and result in usable negs, and then, depending on your first roll, you can go from there.
Cheers
Brett

 

[sevo]

Ultra-fast film does not store well - Delta does fare better than T-Max (which often had already lost half its speed and was badly fogged by the expiration date), but even that will be ugly and slow twelve years past expiration. Probably not worth bothering, it won't be significantly faster than the Tri-X out of the bunch any more, and will look worse.

Tri-X and HP5 should still be usable (perhaps one stop slower and more grainy).

Tech Pan stores well (my sheet film inventory from the early nineties lasted, cooled but not frozen, until about five years ago, and behaved like new right to the end), but it is more tricky to process than the above, so you might have to spend more than one film for tests for correct exposure and processing, the more so as the official developers are gone now - if there are less than four or five films left, that might be pointless.

 

[Lauffray]

[...], but it is more tricky to process than the above, so you might have to spend more than one film for tests for correct exposure and processing, the more so as the official developers are gone now - if there are less than four or five films left, that might be pointless.

Kodak strongly suggests 120 Tech Pan only be developed in Technidol but a quick search found nowhere I could buy it, any tips as to how I can develop it ?

 

[charjohncarter]

I recently went through many rolls of Kodak MAX 400 also expired in 2004. These were stored in a closet in California. I shot at 200 and developed normally and there were results and not that bad.

Expired (2002) Kodak Max 400 by John Carter, on Flickr

I would expect color to degrade much more rapidly than B&W so give them a try: reduce EI and develop as you like. I bet you'll be surprised.

 

[sevo]

Spur Dokuspeed (https://www.fotoimpex.de/shopen/chemistry/spur-dokuspeed-sl-modular-developer-part-a-part-b.html) probably is the best developer for Technical Pan that is left. Past that, it is DIY, or experiments with high-dilution developers (which can be difficult as the local water quality will strongly affect the results).

 

[mfogiel]

Delta and Tmax 3200 at this point will be EI 100 at best, other stuff will have lost at least a stop or two ( I rate films at 2/3 box speed even when new anyway). Investigate also the best low fog developer, and if in doubt use HC 110.

 

[Lauffray]

Delta and Tmax 3200 at this point will be EI 100 at best, other stuff will have lost at least a stop or two ( I rate films at 2/3 box speed even when new anyway). Investigate also the best low fog developer, and if in doubt use HC 110.

And I develop them at the speed I shot or is there further compensation there ? for example, if I shoot Delta at 100, I should develop at the recommended EI100 times ?

 

[mfogiel]

No, you should start with shooting at 1/4 to 1/2 box speed and develop perhaps 85% of box speed development times, then you can adjust. For Delta and Tmax 3200 shoot directly at EI 100. It is likely that the slower B&W films will have suffered less.

 

[Jake Mongey]

Honestly ive been using bilk Tmax 400 that expired in 04 and ive pushed it to 3200 and compared it at that iso with fresh stock and there was no difference, so i think you should be fine

 

[Lauffray]

No, you should start with shooting at 1/4 to 1/2 box speed and develop perhaps 85% of box speed development times, then you can adjust. For Delta and Tmax 3200 shoot directly at EI 100. It is likely that the slower B&W films will have suffered less.

So I'm effectively pull processing ? I'm confused, I thought I was only supposed to compensate in exposure to overcome the old fog and then develop normally ?

 

[Huss]

Honestly ive been using bilk Tmax 400 that expired in 04 and ive pushed it to 3200 and compared it at that iso with fresh stock and there was no difference, so i think you should be fine

So I'm effectively pull processing ? I'm confused, I thought I was only supposed to compensate in exposure to overcome the old fog and then develop normally ?

Just shoot it. I'm with Jake, the only times I've ever had issues is if the film was not in the sealed plastic wrapper.
You're overthinking this because you don't yet know what it looks like. Chances are it is ok and any extra dev etc will mess things up. Then you don't know where you or it went wrong. If it is not ok, then you can see what you need to do to accomodate for the next rolls.

 

[Ronald_H]

Don't be too afraid of expired film, that's just about the only thing I shoot. I must admit I have no experience with expired 3200 film, but others have given good advice about that.

Experiment a bit with 1 to 2 stops overexposing for the slower film you have, or alternatively, developing longer for the B/W film. As said, expired film is the only stuff I shoot and with a bit of care and overexposure its all good.

This was shot in 2015 on Fuji RMS 100/1000, a pushable E6 slide film. It expired in 2002. Storage conditions unknown, bought at a fleamarket, 2 euros for 10 rolls (!). I rated it a ISO80 and shot it in my Yashica Mat 124. Ordinary drugstore development. Btw, yes, this is my car ;-)


My beetle by Ronald Hogenboom, on Flickr

 

[ChrisLivsey]

The "classic" Tech pan developer is Delagi 8 ( a modified POTA) but you need to self mix and use immediately results are good if you want more tones:

@iso32 15 mins

 

[charjohncarter]

Don't be too afraid of expired film, that's just about the only thing I shoot. I must admit I have no experience with expired 3200 film, but others have given good advice about that.

Experiment a bit with 1 to 2 stops overexposing for the slower film you have, or alternatively, developing longer for the B/W film. As said, expired film is the only stuff I shoot and with a bit of care and overexposure its all good.

This was shot in 2015 on Fuji RMS 100/1000, a pushable E6 slide film. It expired in 2002. Storage conditions unknown, bought at a fleamarket, 2 euros for 10 rolls (!). I rated it a ISO80 and shot it in my Yashica Mat 124. Ordinary drugstore development. Btw, yes, this is my car ;-)


My beetle by Ronald Hogenboom, on Flickr

If that isn't an advertisement for expired film, I don't know what is. (a fifth of a Euro per roll, too)

 

[mfogiel]

"So I'm effectively pull processing ? I'm confused, I thought I was only supposed to compensate in exposure to overcome the old fog and then develop normally ?"
Sort of. You will expose closer to the real film speed, but develop slightly shorter, which should help to keep the fog low. The negatives will be lower contrast, but you can take care of this after scanning.