Barra
Newbie
How's it going there,
i'm quite new to this enclave. I've been flutting around with Diana (reissue) cameras (medium and 35mm) for a while now and suprisingly to myself i have unintentionally ditched the digital form due to increased pleasure. All is good but of course i just IMPULSED and went and bought some reissue russian/ukranian Zorki 3/opku 1949 KmHz anniverary model and have no idea what i've done! I now read of film leader cutting and old models being dressed up as new and curtains as shutters (made of cloth, but not lace, thank god) and need firm but soothing words of encouragement and/or admonishment for what i've done (my friends and associates are useless or digitally inclined so I'd welcome advice).
PS I'm not obsessed with reissues - the whole thing kicked off when i got a diana camera as a present - but the Fed-zorki i'm curious about cos i can't find any information on it. Any advice from your bewildering knowledge would be great.
cheers
Barra
i'm quite new to this enclave. I've been flutting around with Diana (reissue) cameras (medium and 35mm) for a while now and suprisingly to myself i have unintentionally ditched the digital form due to increased pleasure. All is good but of course i just IMPULSED and went and bought some reissue russian/ukranian Zorki 3/opku 1949 KmHz anniverary model and have no idea what i've done! I now read of film leader cutting and old models being dressed up as new and curtains as shutters (made of cloth, but not lace, thank god) and need firm but soothing words of encouragement and/or admonishment for what i've done (my friends and associates are useless or digitally inclined so I'd welcome advice).
PS I'm not obsessed with reissues - the whole thing kicked off when i got a diana camera as a present - but the Fed-zorki i'm curious about cos i can't find any information on it. Any advice from your bewildering knowledge would be great.
cheers
Barra
ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
No such thing as "reissues" amongst cameras from the old USSR. Anything seen carrying such is likely a fake, with the engraving added by some craftsman in very recent times.
As for the shutters, well, they really used cloth. Rubberised opaque cloth. As long as the curtain is opaque (I've seen one which had non-opaque red cloth) and functions properly, there should be no problem with that.
The 'dressing' up part isn't really encouraging. It can be indicative of a bad camera which is impossible to sell because of poor cosmetics or functionality. Or several cameras in that state which became donors. So the best looking parts -not necessary best fitting- from two or more specimens of the same model- were 'harvested' to create one "good" camera.
Cosmetics may look ok, but the parts (gears, etc) may not mesh well, and thus function poorly. I was recently asked to "adjust" a cork-skinned Zorki-6 whose shutter fired erratically. Turned out that its winding spring came from another camera. The spring was shorter than needed and prevented the camera's winding lever from being pulled far enough to complete the cocking.
As for the shutters, well, they really used cloth. Rubberised opaque cloth. As long as the curtain is opaque (I've seen one which had non-opaque red cloth) and functions properly, there should be no problem with that.
The 'dressing' up part isn't really encouraging. It can be indicative of a bad camera which is impossible to sell because of poor cosmetics or functionality. Or several cameras in that state which became donors. So the best looking parts -not necessary best fitting- from two or more specimens of the same model- were 'harvested' to create one "good" camera.
Cosmetics may look ok, but the parts (gears, etc) may not mesh well, and thus function poorly. I was recently asked to "adjust" a cork-skinned Zorki-6 whose shutter fired erratically. Turned out that its winding spring came from another camera. The spring was shorter than needed and prevented the camera's winding lever from being pulled far enough to complete the cocking.
DSikes
Member
Worst case scenerio you'll have a pretty camera that's nice to look at. I have a few paper weight cameras in my collection.
Barra
Newbie
hi
i received my camera which i was told was "based" on a Fed 1 so make of that what you will. Anyway I'm having a few teething issues - i have loaded two rolls of film with the leader cut and it seemed to take hold (i wound and shot two testers with the bottom off) - but when i reached the 36th shot it kept going - and going and sacrificing the film i discovered that the bottom sprocket holes on the take-up spool side were torn at where the wind on teeth should catch them and so the film hadn't wound on at all after the tear point. this happened in on both rolls and not immediately but probably about 1/4 of the way in the film or so. I have been able to use the rewind knob on the camera but i just read somewhere that the rewind knob should move as you advance the film after each shot - is this true? because mine doesn't and that might explain the tearing if it is causing too much tension. If so is it just a case of a bit of WD40 on the rewind knob or are there bigger issues? it's a lovely looking camera and would be a very nice paper weight/ornament but i'd much rather be able to take pictures with it
i received my camera which i was told was "based" on a Fed 1 so make of that what you will. Anyway I'm having a few teething issues - i have loaded two rolls of film with the leader cut and it seemed to take hold (i wound and shot two testers with the bottom off) - but when i reached the 36th shot it kept going - and going and sacrificing the film i discovered that the bottom sprocket holes on the take-up spool side were torn at where the wind on teeth should catch them and so the film hadn't wound on at all after the tear point. this happened in on both rolls and not immediately but probably about 1/4 of the way in the film or so. I have been able to use the rewind knob on the camera but i just read somewhere that the rewind knob should move as you advance the film after each shot - is this true? because mine doesn't and that might explain the tearing if it is causing too much tension. If so is it just a case of a bit of WD40 on the rewind knob or are there bigger issues? it's a lovely looking camera and would be a very nice paper weight/ornament but i'd much rather be able to take pictures with it
pakeha
Well-known
hi Barra, wait for reply from someone with more knowledge than me , BUT while you are waiting under no cicumstances put wd40 anywhere near your camera. relax, dont sweat it untill you get reply - may not be any problem at all, cheers
ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
If you read the last part of my previous comment, you may already get the answer why your 'dressed up' FED is acting like that. The dressing up/ make-over part or the combining of parts harvested from two or more cameras may account for the less than ideal function.
Why the film tears at the point you described, or at any point for that matter, is often due to over all tightness in the mechanism- from the gears which move the sprocket shaft to the fit of the mechanism in the body which can cause the space where the film travels to go very tight. There are probably dozens of reasons why your film did that.
What appears to have happened in your case is that you continued winding even when the roll reached its end. Easy to do that, especially if you're unfamiliar with these type of cameras. If you feel the tightness at one point, it means that you've reached the end of the roll.
The rewind knob should turn as you wind the film. Sometime you won't see it turning if the roll under isn't tightly coiled. One of the steps involved in loading film (regardless if its from the back or the bottom) is to wind the rewind knob to make the film taut, so it can confirm that the film has been properly loaded when it turns the opposite way.
However, if you've followed all these and still got torn film, then there must be a graver reason elsewhere. When the sprockets are torn, the film won't advance. And when rewound, the torn parts can catch in the cassette and cause the film to tear off.
I can enumerate some which I found to cause such problems:
1. The parts within are dirty or dry. Cosmetic make-overs don't usually pay much attention to how the insides work. I have four such modified cameras. Three had really bad mechanisms which needed to be adjusted and modified. One of the three had to be taken apart to refit the parts.
2. The body and the shutter crate may have come from two different cameras. The space is tight inside Barnack-type cameras. Ill fitting parts will make this tighter and make it hard for the film to traverse within.
One camera I encountered (not a FED but a Shanghai) with this symptom, I had to reshape the body a bit.
3. Another cause for the tightness can be the pressure plate and the springs which hold it up. Is the pressure plate correct? Is it smooth? The pressure plate of the FED easily corrodes, and corrosion, even in the mildest form make the film traverse less smoothly. The springs under the PP may have been installed incorrectly- and this is a common mistake done by repairists. Or the springs may be too bent and push the PP too tightly against the film track.
4. Check the rewind knob too. The shaft goes through a hole on the top plate, and during make overs (stripping, replating, and repainting), the hole can get tighter and cause the rewind shaft to turn with less ease. Or corrosion can also make the knob turn tighter. The rewind knob should turn freely. It should turn with no resistance when there is no film under it.
5. The baseplate may be bearing on the film cassette too. The knob of the cassette (the protruding end of the spool) will rest on the locking latch of the baseplate. If there is something there which restricts the movement of the cassette spool, this will cause film tightening too. Make-overs often involve disassembly of the baseplate too.
6. Is the takeup spool correct for the FED? Though they may all look alike, TU spools do not freely interchange between the FED models, or between Zorki, Leica, or Canon. Some do, some don't.
7. The loading procedure may be at fault. Was the film cut properly? Was the leader length correct? Was it shaped properly?
Most of the possible reasons stated above may require invasive checkup procedures. Unless you do camera repairs, doing them yourself is not recommended. The enclosed shells of the FED cameras do not help much in checking the mechanism's functions.
Another function to check with made-over/dressed up FED is the flange to focal distance. Most made-overs don't have the proper 28.8mm distance anymore. The delicate paper spacers are lost during the process, or not properly measured. Not having this correct distance will mean that the lens or camera won't be able to focus properly.
Why the film tears at the point you described, or at any point for that matter, is often due to over all tightness in the mechanism- from the gears which move the sprocket shaft to the fit of the mechanism in the body which can cause the space where the film travels to go very tight. There are probably dozens of reasons why your film did that.
What appears to have happened in your case is that you continued winding even when the roll reached its end. Easy to do that, especially if you're unfamiliar with these type of cameras. If you feel the tightness at one point, it means that you've reached the end of the roll.
The rewind knob should turn as you wind the film. Sometime you won't see it turning if the roll under isn't tightly coiled. One of the steps involved in loading film (regardless if its from the back or the bottom) is to wind the rewind knob to make the film taut, so it can confirm that the film has been properly loaded when it turns the opposite way.
However, if you've followed all these and still got torn film, then there must be a graver reason elsewhere. When the sprockets are torn, the film won't advance. And when rewound, the torn parts can catch in the cassette and cause the film to tear off.
I can enumerate some which I found to cause such problems:
1. The parts within are dirty or dry. Cosmetic make-overs don't usually pay much attention to how the insides work. I have four such modified cameras. Three had really bad mechanisms which needed to be adjusted and modified. One of the three had to be taken apart to refit the parts.
2. The body and the shutter crate may have come from two different cameras. The space is tight inside Barnack-type cameras. Ill fitting parts will make this tighter and make it hard for the film to traverse within.
One camera I encountered (not a FED but a Shanghai) with this symptom, I had to reshape the body a bit.
3. Another cause for the tightness can be the pressure plate and the springs which hold it up. Is the pressure plate correct? Is it smooth? The pressure plate of the FED easily corrodes, and corrosion, even in the mildest form make the film traverse less smoothly. The springs under the PP may have been installed incorrectly- and this is a common mistake done by repairists. Or the springs may be too bent and push the PP too tightly against the film track.
4. Check the rewind knob too. The shaft goes through a hole on the top plate, and during make overs (stripping, replating, and repainting), the hole can get tighter and cause the rewind shaft to turn with less ease. Or corrosion can also make the knob turn tighter. The rewind knob should turn freely. It should turn with no resistance when there is no film under it.
5. The baseplate may be bearing on the film cassette too. The knob of the cassette (the protruding end of the spool) will rest on the locking latch of the baseplate. If there is something there which restricts the movement of the cassette spool, this will cause film tightening too. Make-overs often involve disassembly of the baseplate too.
6. Is the takeup spool correct for the FED? Though they may all look alike, TU spools do not freely interchange between the FED models, or between Zorki, Leica, or Canon. Some do, some don't.
7. The loading procedure may be at fault. Was the film cut properly? Was the leader length correct? Was it shaped properly?
Most of the possible reasons stated above may require invasive checkup procedures. Unless you do camera repairs, doing them yourself is not recommended. The enclosed shells of the FED cameras do not help much in checking the mechanism's functions.
Another function to check with made-over/dressed up FED is the flange to focal distance. Most made-overs don't have the proper 28.8mm distance anymore. The delicate paper spacers are lost during the process, or not properly measured. Not having this correct distance will mean that the lens or camera won't be able to focus properly.
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ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
No WD-40, but...
No WD-40, but...
Second the motion on not using WD-40 too. Don't use it, at least not in the way that you'd use it on bicycle chains or door hinges...
You can however use it safely, if applied right, on your FED. Rick Oleson has devised a method for using WD-40. Spray the oil in a jar, enough to collect some. Leave it for a day and a night, and then then skim off the clear oil. This oil is actually good, and fine enough for the gears. It also is good for corroded parts, and may actually help if your rewind knob shaft is corroded and is causing the film tightness problem.
No WD-40, but...
Second the motion on not using WD-40 too. Don't use it, at least not in the way that you'd use it on bicycle chains or door hinges...
You can however use it safely, if applied right, on your FED. Rick Oleson has devised a method for using WD-40. Spray the oil in a jar, enough to collect some. Leave it for a day and a night, and then then skim off the clear oil. This oil is actually good, and fine enough for the gears. It also is good for corroded parts, and may actually help if your rewind knob shaft is corroded and is causing the film tightness problem.
Barra
Newbie
thanks for the information - these camera's are quite a learning curve. Well i haven't WD-40'd anything- i did rewind the new film in my camera for the first few frames and wound on and used the rewind knob to check the tension and so far so good - the plate is back on and the rewind knob moves when i wind on (i'm doing it very gingerly). hopefully i can get to the end of the roll and successfully get the remainder developed to check if the remaining features are actually ok (lens, focus etc). fingers crossed.
thanks again for all your advice and help - hopefully i can get some momentum with this and hopefully i won't be back on too soon with more problems.
all the best
thanks again for all your advice and help - hopefully i can get some momentum with this and hopefully i won't be back on too soon with more problems.
all the best
Merkin
For the Weekend
Hey Barra, out of curiosity, are you new to photography in general, new to film photography, or just new to this site?
Barra
Newbie
Merkin:
I'm new to this forum and i suppose new to all-manual cameras really having previously had a Canon EOS SLR which of course had auto focus, auto load and rewind etc etc - but i hated the bulkiness of the slr and the way it ate batteries so i traded that in for a digital fuji finepix bridge camera which is great but when i got a Lomography Diana camera back in June I got caught up in this manual analogue thing - the effects and atmosphere from the Diana pictures i find are sometimes much more interesting than the precision and high detail of a digital image and i seem to always bring it around with me cos it's light and not so "precious". This stumbling into FSU's is an exension of my diana experience and time will tell where it leads me.
Taking photos (digital) was a big part of my Art diploma - not as photography per se but to document the projects i was working on and to present their results. so i suppose photography for photography's sake is new to me too but already my experience with analogue manual cameras has improved my control of my digital camera.
short response - i'm new to everything!
I'm new to this forum and i suppose new to all-manual cameras really having previously had a Canon EOS SLR which of course had auto focus, auto load and rewind etc etc - but i hated the bulkiness of the slr and the way it ate batteries so i traded that in for a digital fuji finepix bridge camera which is great but when i got a Lomography Diana camera back in June I got caught up in this manual analogue thing - the effects and atmosphere from the Diana pictures i find are sometimes much more interesting than the precision and high detail of a digital image and i seem to always bring it around with me cos it's light and not so "precious". This stumbling into FSU's is an exension of my diana experience and time will tell where it leads me.
Taking photos (digital) was a big part of my Art diploma - not as photography per se but to document the projects i was working on and to present their results. so i suppose photography for photography's sake is new to me too but already my experience with analogue manual cameras has improved my control of my digital camera.
short response - i'm new to everything!
Merkin
For the Weekend
One thing you might want to consider if your FED doesn't work out is purchasing an inexpensive used film SLR, many of which can be had, with a lens, for fifty bucks or less on craigslist, or at yard sales, swap meets, flea markets, etc. There are many small SLRs out there, like the Olympuses, some of the Pentaxes, and some of the Nikons. It is a little bit larger, but I would highly recommend a Pentax K1000, it is very basic and no frills, and it is built like an absolute tank. If you want fuzzy, lo-fi images like you get from your diana, you have a couple of options. You can pick up a used UV filter for a couple bucks and put a coating of vaseline on it (just make sure it doesn't get on the lens itself). Also, you can get a pinhole or zone plate, you can get a lensbaby, or you can get adapters to use holga and diana lenses on 35mm SLRs. This would be a good way to get a reliable camera that you don't have to worry about treating with kid gloves which would still be capable of producing a gamut of image qualities, from tack sharp to fuzzed out. Sure, it may not look as cool as an old FED, but it would possibly lead to better images- if you can get a good picture out of a diana or holga, you can get a good picture out of anything, and with a full range of f stops and shutter speeds, you can quite possibly get better pictures.
Barra
Newbie
great info - thanks
would you believe that the Canon SLR EOS i traded in for the fuji was a film camera! To be honest i'd never liked it. The diana was a present which awakened an interest in film again. What i like about the Fed (or hope to like!) is the very neat size, ironically the weight (the lightness of the diana doesn't always help holding the camera steady when clicking), focus and the use of 35mm which is cheaper for processing. I'll keep an eye out for the camera's you've mentioned though, in case Fedka here refuses to co-operate. it is about the pictures and not the equipment at the end of the day really, isn't it.
would you believe that the Canon SLR EOS i traded in for the fuji was a film camera! To be honest i'd never liked it. The diana was a present which awakened an interest in film again. What i like about the Fed (or hope to like!) is the very neat size, ironically the weight (the lightness of the diana doesn't always help holding the camera steady when clicking), focus and the use of 35mm which is cheaper for processing. I'll keep an eye out for the camera's you've mentioned though, in case Fedka here refuses to co-operate. it is about the pictures and not the equipment at the end of the day really, isn't it.
Barra
Newbie
got my pics back from the first complete roll and everything seems to be in order - 31 pics out of 36 (i sacrificed the first 5 fixing the tension). subject matter is attrocious cos i only wanted to use film up but i'm impressed that using the cheapy 200 film that i got free (out-of-date film) - indoor pictures at night-time and low light outdoor shots actually came out ok. bodes well for faster speeds - Ireland is invariably cloudy and it's getting dark early this time of year, particularly at the times i get to use my camera. time to load better film...
Merkin
For the Weekend
I'm glad it worked out for you. If you get a chance, shoot a roll of slide film, as it will do a better job of showing whether or not you shutter speeds are accurate, because slide film is much more sensitive to exposure problems. Be sure to shoot a couple of frames with each shutter speed, and make a chart as you shoot showing the f stop and shutter speed you used with each frame. Do this every 4 to 6 months, to keep tabs on the condition of your camera, and you won't have any (or as many) surprises down the road.
Do you have a good (or at least functional and accurate) light meter?
Barra
Newbie
no i don't have a light meter but i'll wing it for the moment - Christmas is coming so we'll see...
pakeha
Well-known
great that all is good, see, never panic. Glad it all worked out - now geta light meter, seriously, even if its an older selenium one , chances are that if you get one from Eire it wont have seen much light so will still be working fine [ smiley or two here].
As an aside - whenever i get a `new' old camera i run exposed practise film through three times at various speeds, i just do it because i fiquire often these cameras have been left unused for some time and a bit of exercise should free things up - no science here but all that i have brought have produced suprising [to me] first time results. Regards and enjoy
As an aside - whenever i get a `new' old camera i run exposed practise film through three times at various speeds, i just do it because i fiquire often these cameras have been left unused for some time and a bit of exercise should free things up - no science here but all that i have brought have produced suprising [to me] first time results. Regards and enjoy