JChrome
Street Worker
EDIT -
If you want the conclusion of this, skip down to the bottom. I wasn't successful. If you were successful, I'd love to hear feedback. But if not and you don't have any evidence to back up your claims - please *don't* keep saying that the ping is due to the counter or the counter assembly. This is an internet myth.
Hey Gang -
I am working on a write up to remove the plunger from the camera and make her silent. I was inspired by another thread. so I took the "plunge".
But... I'm stuck. I've successfully removed the bottom plate, the top plate and the RF assembly.
Now the question is, how do I remove the front cover? I read that the plunger is inside the front cover, as seen on this ebay page.
Do I need to remove the winder assembly on top of the camera to get to it next? Or do I remove the screws inside the cover (see next photo)?
I tried removing these screws and I think someone put superglue on them... I can't seem to loosen them!
Thanks so much for any help you can offer!
If you want the conclusion of this, skip down to the bottom. I wasn't successful. If you were successful, I'd love to hear feedback. But if not and you don't have any evidence to back up your claims - please *don't* keep saying that the ping is due to the counter or the counter assembly. This is an internet myth.
Hey Gang -
I am working on a write up to remove the plunger from the camera and make her silent. I was inspired by another thread. so I took the "plunge".
But... I'm stuck. I've successfully removed the bottom plate, the top plate and the RF assembly.
Now the question is, how do I remove the front cover? I read that the plunger is inside the front cover, as seen on this ebay page.
Do I need to remove the winder assembly on top of the camera to get to it next? Or do I remove the screws inside the cover (see next photo)?
I tried removing these screws and I think someone put superglue on them... I can't seem to loosen them!
Thanks so much for any help you can offer!
JChrome
Street Worker
DCB
Well-known
Watching....
Peace
Peace
DCB
Well-known
JChrome
Street Worker
So after pondering the problem, I realized there re some rubber items on the front of the body that could be removed... and viola! Off they came and under them showed some screws to take off.
This gets you to the removal of the front plate/lens assembly.
But... another sticky issue here. After removal of the screws, theres a connection between the winder assembly and the front plate that seems to stop me. I may have to remove the winder assembly (something I don't want to have to do).
Above notice the two off-white dots on the shiny metal. This is a part of the shutter mechanism and is also the connection between the front plate and the winder.
If I must remove the winder assembly, I can but there's one flat-head screw that's stopping me. Every precision screwdriver won't fit this... the line's too small.
Notice the flathead screw to the left of the large white dial.
This gets you to the removal of the front plate/lens assembly.
But... another sticky issue here. After removal of the screws, theres a connection between the winder assembly and the front plate that seems to stop me. I may have to remove the winder assembly (something I don't want to have to do).
Above notice the two off-white dots on the shiny metal. This is a part of the shutter mechanism and is also the connection between the front plate and the winder.
If I must remove the winder assembly, I can but there's one flat-head screw that's stopping me. Every precision screwdriver won't fit this... the line's too small.
Notice the flathead screw to the left of the large white dial.
JChrome
Street Worker
So after some more thought and work, I got the "unscrewable flathead screw" unscrewed.
I successfully removed the winder assembly which allowed removal of the lens assembly.
But after looking at it and thinking about the sound, etc, I think this is not really feasible. Others have said that its intuitive. Maybe I am just slow and I should give it a night to think about, but from what I can see, the plunger is an integral part of the shutter and necessary actually. See next photo:
Notice the spring on the right. I think its necessary because it puts the pressure on the shutter mechanism. If you remove that one piece of metal sitting behind the spring (which I think is the infamous "plunger") then I don't think the shutter will work.
Anyway, if someone out there has experience with this and can give me a "hallelujah" moment then I am all ears!
I successfully removed the winder assembly which allowed removal of the lens assembly.
But after looking at it and thinking about the sound, etc, I think this is not really feasible. Others have said that its intuitive. Maybe I am just slow and I should give it a night to think about, but from what I can see, the plunger is an integral part of the shutter and necessary actually. See next photo:
Notice the spring on the right. I think its necessary because it puts the pressure on the shutter mechanism. If you remove that one piece of metal sitting behind the spring (which I think is the infamous "plunger") then I don't think the shutter will work.
Anyway, if someone out there has experience with this and can give me a "hallelujah" moment then I am all ears!
JChrome
Street Worker
@DCB -
Some current thoughts:
1) No need to remove the bottom plate for this. Might as well not remove as many things as possible and keep it simpler.
2) Another instruction mentioned to solder off the wires for the x-sync (or PC or whatever). No need for this, just unscrew some of the connections.
Some current thoughts:
1) No need to remove the bottom plate for this. Might as well not remove as many things as possible and keep it simpler.
2) Another instruction mentioned to solder off the wires for the x-sync (or PC or whatever). No need for this, just unscrew some of the connections.
DCB
Well-known
Is there some kind of "oval" gear that causes the rod to go bak up or just the spring?
See anything that could be causing the sound?
Thanks for all you work!
Peace
See anything that could be causing the sound?
Thanks for all you work!
Peace
JChrome
Street Worker
It's not really a rod, but rather just one flat metal piece. You may think the spring is surrounding a rod but it isn't.
Here's another photo from another angle.
After thinking about this more - I think I've got some definitive evidence that the "ping" is not* from this mechanism. You can run the test - depress the shutter button and keep holding it down. If you keep holding it down, this plunger will not return back to its default position (in other words, it doesn't "trip" back to default once the shutter is depressed, like other mechanisms are). But the god-awful "ping" happens regardless of whether you keep holding down the shutter button or not!
I could be wrong, I'm no engineer, but my feeling is that the "ping" is from the shutter return mechanism (it's the only other large spring in the top of the camera). It's metal on metal so it slams back. I could maybe add some rubber to it and see if that helps.
I'm starting to think that the whisper quiet GW690 is a myth (aside from the GL, G and BL series which have the leaf shutter and no ping noise).
Here's another photo from another angle.
After thinking about this more - I think I've got some definitive evidence that the "ping" is not* from this mechanism. You can run the test - depress the shutter button and keep holding it down. If you keep holding it down, this plunger will not return back to its default position (in other words, it doesn't "trip" back to default once the shutter is depressed, like other mechanisms are). But the god-awful "ping" happens regardless of whether you keep holding down the shutter button or not!
I could be wrong, I'm no engineer, but my feeling is that the "ping" is from the shutter return mechanism (it's the only other large spring in the top of the camera). It's metal on metal so it slams back. I could maybe add some rubber to it and see if that helps.
I'm starting to think that the whisper quiet GW690 is a myth (aside from the GL, G and BL series which have the leaf shutter and no ping noise).
DCB
Well-known
This has the leaf shutter. So the only thing that could be making the ping has to be something that was added when the GW was made.
Peace
Peace
JChrome
Street Worker
You're correct. I understand how my last post was confusing. I know that the GW has a leaf shutter and this has to be something that was added.
But what I can see, the ping has nothing to do with the counter mechanism or the plunger which actuates that counter. That's not it.
Some words from a Fuji Wizard, Dante Stella:
"You may not have succeeded in removing the noise, but you have been successful in de-mythologizing the sound issue. If it's not the counter assembly, it's the shutter. That linkage shown is not capable of making that thwang noise when you fire the shutter. That could only be coming from the shutter itself.
And the shutter seems like a somwhat underappreciated part of the problem here. It's not a Copal; it's a Seiko - so I wouldn't discount the possibility that it is louder to begin with (I dimly recall that the counterless GS645 folder is also pretty loud). And unlike the G series, it is not housed in a massively heavy barrel (that is so lightweight that it has multiple penetrations to allow easier settng of shutter speed and aperture)."
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
That would be the same shutter. IIRC Seiko did already own Copal by the mid sixties. They marketed the shutters as Seiko in some markets where that was the better known brand. I strongly suspect that I have used samples of every medium format capable Seiko/Copal shutter made from the seventies on - none of them are anywhere near that noisy.
What does happen when you unhook or remove that spring at the plunger?
JChrome
Street Worker
It's not in the shutter, it's the winder assembly that makes the noise. I'll post a video.
I just spent about 20 minutes putting the front and winder assembly back together. I'm not gonna take it apart to take the spring off the plunger.
I think I officially debunked the plunger as the cause of the ping with this:
"You can run the test - depress the shutter button and keep holding it down. If you keep holding it down, this plunger will not return back to its default position (in other words, it doesn't "trip" back to default once the shutter is depressed, like other mechanisms are). But the god-awful "ping" happens regardless of whether you keep holding down the shutter button or not!"
That's evidence enough for me. But even if that's not enough for you, the shutter simply wouldn't work without that spring, so removal of it seems silly (and, I'm tellin ya... it won't get rid of the ping).
I took off the counter, which could reduce some of the sound, but not a lot.
BTW - to remove the counter, you can take off the bottom plate and the front plate. Easy peasy. No messing with the winder assembly.
DCB
Well-known
Can't wait to see the video.
Again thanks for taking this project on.
Peace
Again thanks for taking this project on.
Peace
JChrome
Street Worker
Here's the video which proves the ping is not with the shutter.
Here.
The shutter is connected to the winder assembly by a single gear. In the video, you can see me wind the camera and a metal slide moves across. Normally, this would mesh with the gear and wind the shutter. But it's not meshing with the gear, so the shutter's not being wound (nor released). So when I trip the shutter button, the shutter's not doing anything but the winder assembly's doing all the work.
Notice the infamous *ping*...
So where's the ping?
1) It's not the counter or the linkage to the counter.
2) It's not the shutter.
3) It's somewhere in the winder assembly. I don't know where or how, but there it is. I suspect it's the slider slamming back to its non-wound position. All of those springs in there then vibrate and add to the "hum". I would imagine that Fuji engineers knew about this issue and if it were that easy to get rid of, they would have.
If someone else want's to take it all apart they can, or if they are in NYC and want to take it apart over coffee, I'd be glad to lend assistance. But for me, this project just taught me that the internet has its myths. Go on and enjoy your 6x9 photos with zing... you don't have much choice
Here.
The shutter is connected to the winder assembly by a single gear. In the video, you can see me wind the camera and a metal slide moves across. Normally, this would mesh with the gear and wind the shutter. But it's not meshing with the gear, so the shutter's not being wound (nor released). So when I trip the shutter button, the shutter's not doing anything but the winder assembly's doing all the work.
Notice the infamous *ping*...
So where's the ping?
1) It's not the counter or the linkage to the counter.
2) It's not the shutter.
3) It's somewhere in the winder assembly. I don't know where or how, but there it is. I suspect it's the slider slamming back to its non-wound position. All of those springs in there then vibrate and add to the "hum". I would imagine that Fuji engineers knew about this issue and if it were that easy to get rid of, they would have.
If someone else want's to take it all apart they can, or if they are in NYC and want to take it apart over coffee, I'd be glad to lend assistance. But for me, this project just taught me that the internet has its myths. Go on and enjoy your 6x9 photos with zing... you don't have much choice
Solinar
Analog Preferred
From a fellow Fuji owner - many thanks for all your work and the video showing the workings within the top of the camera.
Yep - the internet is has its myths. Thanks again.
Yep - the internet is has its myths. Thanks again.
NY_Dan
Well-known
Can you remove that long thin metal piece about 1/4 x 1 that slides from left to right? It doesn't look like it does anything -- that is if that is the source of the sound.
JChrome
Street Worker
Sure thing!
Before I do that though, I just bought a strap and some lugs to attach to a new dog-turd I almost slipped on while walking down the street. I can't wait to take her out shooting!
JChrome
Street Worker
Glad to have taken a few hours to do it. It was kinda fun, although my x-sync is not exactly the same as it was before...
Also, its really incredible how far this myth has travelled. Everyone thinks the counter or the "plunger" is involved but that's just not true. I've watched youtube reviews talking about it, read lots of forum posts about it... etc. No one ever did their own research I guess.
On another note... I wonder if the lens assembly for the GSW would fit on the GW... I might have another camera for 50$....
DCB
Well-known
Question.
Does the older GM bodies make the same sound?
Peace
Does the older GM bodies make the same sound?
Peace