clickclickmumma
Newbie
I hope you folks may be able to weigh in on my gear dilemma.
I've been shooting 35mm for about 8 months and mainly shoot my 3 year old and other odd things that catch my fancy - I'm a spontaneous shooter and have no shame in the fact that I almost always use the in-camera meters in my cameras. Having said that, I am passionate about photography and do want to create something beyond a snapshot when I can.
I recently bought a Bronica Sq-Ai as my first medium format camera and sold it after my first roll. I found it too bulky and awkward for my spontaneous style - in the crucial moments, it was more likely to be on the shelf than in my hands.
So now I'm debating what next for shooting 120 and I've narrowed it down to:
Fuji GA645 - the point and shoot nature both appeals to me and worries me. It would certainly be fun and easy but I wonder if I'd feel stifled, especially by the AF.
Fuji GS645 - this one appeals because it is more manual but I have heard the RF patch is indistinct which I think would be frustrating. Also I'm concerned about fragility. (I recently acquired an original Canonet from the 60s - no idea how the RF patch would compare but it seems fairly faint but I have enjoyed my test roll - yet to see how I fared though!)
Lastly and completely different is a Yashica mat TLR. This comes into my head because I'm obsessed with squares. But if I found the Bronica slow and bulky, I'd probably find the TLR annoying for the same reasons? I do own a handheld light meter.
Actually my dream camera is a Mamiya 6 but it is way out of my reach financially for the foreseeable future (I'm a stay at home mum).
And just in case anyone says it - I realise that 35mm is probably better for spontaneous shooting. I want to shoot 120, and if I can do it without losing my style completely, that would be ideal.
Would love any input from anyone who may have used any of these cameras hands on!
(Sorry that was a novel!)
I've been shooting 35mm for about 8 months and mainly shoot my 3 year old and other odd things that catch my fancy - I'm a spontaneous shooter and have no shame in the fact that I almost always use the in-camera meters in my cameras. Having said that, I am passionate about photography and do want to create something beyond a snapshot when I can.
I recently bought a Bronica Sq-Ai as my first medium format camera and sold it after my first roll. I found it too bulky and awkward for my spontaneous style - in the crucial moments, it was more likely to be on the shelf than in my hands.
So now I'm debating what next for shooting 120 and I've narrowed it down to:
Fuji GA645 - the point and shoot nature both appeals to me and worries me. It would certainly be fun and easy but I wonder if I'd feel stifled, especially by the AF.
Fuji GS645 - this one appeals because it is more manual but I have heard the RF patch is indistinct which I think would be frustrating. Also I'm concerned about fragility. (I recently acquired an original Canonet from the 60s - no idea how the RF patch would compare but it seems fairly faint but I have enjoyed my test roll - yet to see how I fared though!)
Lastly and completely different is a Yashica mat TLR. This comes into my head because I'm obsessed with squares. But if I found the Bronica slow and bulky, I'd probably find the TLR annoying for the same reasons? I do own a handheld light meter.
Actually my dream camera is a Mamiya 6 but it is way out of my reach financially for the foreseeable future (I'm a stay at home mum).
And just in case anyone says it - I realise that 35mm is probably better for spontaneous shooting. I want to shoot 120, and if I can do it without losing my style completely, that would be ideal.
Would love any input from anyone who may have used any of these cameras hands on!
(Sorry that was a novel!)
ruby.monkey
Veteran
The GS645's R/F patch is fine - it's no Leica M3 but perfectly usable in any light in which you're likely to use it. The spot is a small, fuzzy-edged yellow circle, but it's sufficiently contrasty to make focussing easy. This is helped by a well-sized thumb tab; shutter speed and aperture are rather more fiddly since the control rings are narrow and closely-spaced, and have only a tiny nub on each to help you. The main weak spots are bellows that fall apart and a shutter release mechanism that's prone to failure if certain parts get even slightly dirty - and dumb owners who don't read the manual before closing the camera.
I love mine.
If you chose carefully then the right TLR will give you the most trouble-free experience. They're mostly light and compact, and - if you're not shooting in a hurry - viewing the world through a waist-level finder is a very relaxing way to work.
I love mine.
If you chose carefully then the right TLR will give you the most trouble-free experience. They're mostly light and compact, and - if you're not shooting in a hurry - viewing the world through a waist-level finder is a very relaxing way to work.
tsiklonaut
Well-known
As said before, really depends how you prefer to work. I love my GA645i despite it tends to get much hate around the internet.
I don't have a TLR but I work through a waist level finder with my Pentax 67.
Work-ethics-wise there's no comparison with my GA645 - with GA I can work vastly faster, much better for i.e. street shooting and on-the-fly non-planned shoothouts. Yet with a waist-lever finder I find it's better to work for slow fine art photography settings, where care is required, i.e. landscapes or planned portraits.
I don't have a TLR but I work through a waist level finder with my Pentax 67.
Work-ethics-wise there's no comparison with my GA645 - with GA I can work vastly faster, much better for i.e. street shooting and on-the-fly non-planned shoothouts. Yet with a waist-lever finder I find it's better to work for slow fine art photography settings, where care is required, i.e. landscapes or planned portraits.
jbielikowski
Jan Bielikowski
tonyc
Established
Hello
For spontainious quick shooting style, I would rule out any TLR
as - they are wonderful to use but definately for slower paced
style of shooting.
The Fuji 645 cameras are the nearest thing to Mamiya6 or Leica
RF style shooting, and the original manual versions are all super compact, and weigh less than Mamiya.
The rangefinder patch is absolutely fine, the framelines are even better than Mamiya6 and Leica as they adjust for frame size and parallax !
The only one unusual aspect is the portrait format of the frame.
I actually love this format, and the portrait orientation feels a bit like shooting square in an odd kind of way.
The GS645 is great, but unless it's had belows replacement they
are not light tight, and will need to spend £100+ replacing them.
[35mm equiv lens fov is 50ish]
The GS645S is great, wider FOV.
[35mm equiv lens fov is 35ish]
The GS645W is also great, even wider FOV.
[35mm equiv lens fov is 28ish]
The GA645A[x] versions are bigger, and make a lot of motor noise, kind of point and shoot, so you could miss a shot waiting
for auto focus.
The GS series are definately the best bargains in medium format.
Cheers
-TC
For spontainious quick shooting style, I would rule out any TLR
as - they are wonderful to use but definately for slower paced
style of shooting.
The Fuji 645 cameras are the nearest thing to Mamiya6 or Leica
RF style shooting, and the original manual versions are all super compact, and weigh less than Mamiya.
The rangefinder patch is absolutely fine, the framelines are even better than Mamiya6 and Leica as they adjust for frame size and parallax !
The only one unusual aspect is the portrait format of the frame.
I actually love this format, and the portrait orientation feels a bit like shooting square in an odd kind of way.
The GS645 is great, but unless it's had belows replacement they
are not light tight, and will need to spend £100+ replacing them.
[35mm equiv lens fov is 50ish]
The GS645S is great, wider FOV.
[35mm equiv lens fov is 35ish]
The GS645W is also great, even wider FOV.
[35mm equiv lens fov is 28ish]
The GA645A[x] versions are bigger, and make a lot of motor noise, kind of point and shoot, so you could miss a shot waiting
for auto focus.
The GS series are definately the best bargains in medium format.
Cheers
-TC
thegman
Veteran
I've used a TLR for a while now, and if you want to use it quickly, fast moving children and the like, it would be my last choice. Otherwise, you get a lot of value for money in TLRs I think.
Never used a Fujifilm autofocus camera, but 6x4.5 with the ease of use of a 35mm compact is pretty attractive.
Never used a Fujifilm autofocus camera, but 6x4.5 with the ease of use of a 35mm compact is pretty attractive.
rhl-oregon
Cameras Guitars Wonders
GA645 for best percentage of results, if you focus decisively and feed it the best film and set the best exposure index for the occasion. It's the definitive medium format P&S. I've no bad exposures ever from my GA645; read Dante Stella on the 645 ZI for wittier praise of the GA series.
A GS (or a Bronica RF645, which I have with the 28/40+mm equivalent lenses) if you don't mind missing some shots while you immerse yourself in mastering the manual and intellectual pleasure of being responsible for all aspects of making a good photograph.
Many of us don't have to choose--we've accumulated multiple solutions ;-). But if you must choose, which is the priority for MF now, and which can wait?
(If I were you, and had the cash, I'd also buy the Minolta Autocord for the giveaway price of $175 in the ads now. The you'll have a great little TLR forever for the most care-taking poses/occasions. Though it is possible to do much more and freely with tlr discipline, as Vivian Maier's work shows, or even more immediately and just as admirably, RFF member Dan Wagner (NY_Dan) shows.
A GS (or a Bronica RF645, which I have with the 28/40+mm equivalent lenses) if you don't mind missing some shots while you immerse yourself in mastering the manual and intellectual pleasure of being responsible for all aspects of making a good photograph.
Many of us don't have to choose--we've accumulated multiple solutions ;-). But if you must choose, which is the priority for MF now, and which can wait?
(If I were you, and had the cash, I'd also buy the Minolta Autocord for the giveaway price of $175 in the ads now. The you'll have a great little TLR forever for the most care-taking poses/occasions. Though it is possible to do much more and freely with tlr discipline, as Vivian Maier's work shows, or even more immediately and just as admirably, RFF member Dan Wagner (NY_Dan) shows.
Archlich
Well-known
You can also try a 6×6 folder, for example the original Mamiya Six series.
lonemantis
Well-known
If you're shooting kids, you definitely want to be quick so you can hold their attention or catch them spontaneously. AF and AE on the GA645 are a really great asset here.
I've found the GA645 to be very reliable in this regard - the AF is almost as fast as a good DSLR, and you can prefocus so there's no shutter lag. It would easily take you four times as long to set exposure and manually focus a TLR, by which point your 3 year old will be long gone!
I've found the GA645 to be very reliable in this regard - the AF is almost as fast as a good DSLR, and you can prefocus so there's no shutter lag. It would easily take you four times as long to set exposure and manually focus a TLR, by which point your 3 year old will be long gone!
Spanik
Well-known
A GA645Zi might be the more flexible but it won't focus as fast as a 35mm. And it is made with full automatic use in mind. Manual focus isn't fast nor easy. Otherwise a p&s that is far better than it looks.
Don't know if the budget might strech to a Bronica RF645. Not autofocus but it can do automatic exposure or diaphragm/speed priority and full manual is just as easy. Focus is easy and clear I find. The rangefinder is a bit fragile however, easy to disturb with a few knocks. Optical quality is excellent and ergonomics is about the best I ever found in a medium format.
Don't know if the budget might strech to a Bronica RF645. Not autofocus but it can do automatic exposure or diaphragm/speed priority and full manual is just as easy. Focus is easy and clear I find. The rangefinder is a bit fragile however, easy to disturb with a few knocks. Optical quality is excellent and ergonomics is about the best I ever found in a medium format.
GaryLH
Veteran
Another vote for the Bronica rf or any of the Fuji ga645 cameras.
I would stay away from a tlr..for the moment since u said the Bronica slr was too slow. It takes a bit of learning to operate a tlr w/ good speed plus learning to adjust for the parallex difference between taking lens and viewing one as the subject gets closer.
Good luck and welcome to rff..
Gary
I would stay away from a tlr..for the moment since u said the Bronica slr was too slow. It takes a bit of learning to operate a tlr w/ good speed plus learning to adjust for the parallex difference between taking lens and viewing one as the subject gets closer.
Good luck and welcome to rff..
Gary
clickclickmumma
Newbie
Thanks so much for all these responses! Really helpful. Yes I would really love a Bronica RF645 (second most ideal to a mamiya 6), but they are too expensive unfortunately. I think I'm leaning toward a GA645 for now, and maybe adding a TLR later. Thanks for the input!
Michiel Fokkema
Michiel Fokkema
I found the GS very difficult to use because the dials are so close together. The GA's are great but I like the GA645Z the best.
BTW: my GA645 is for sale
BTW: my GA645 is for sale
mfogiel
Veteran
leicapixie
Well-known
A single roll in a camera, is a test of it's or your capability?
I don't like Bronica or Olympus.
That doesn't mean they are useless cameras.
Medium format is a different animal to 35mm SLR,
DSLR with all the "Auto" features.
Heck, my Leica M is slow..or is it me?
I never thought much of 645 format,
but it yields a better quality with an expense.
Depth of field shrinks, for one, as one goes larger.
A TLR is also for me glacial slow.
I can take months, sometimes a year to finish a roll (12exp).
From my experience,
Speed and many more exposures doesn't lead to better images.
My digital is my proof.
Way more to edit, way less thinking..way more work!
I don't like Bronica or Olympus.
That doesn't mean they are useless cameras.
Medium format is a different animal to 35mm SLR,
DSLR with all the "Auto" features.
Heck, my Leica M is slow..or is it me?
I never thought much of 645 format,
but it yields a better quality with an expense.
Depth of field shrinks, for one, as one goes larger.
A TLR is also for me glacial slow.
I can take months, sometimes a year to finish a roll (12exp).
From my experience,
Speed and many more exposures doesn't lead to better images.
My digital is my proof.
Way more to edit, way less thinking..way more work!
Spanik
Well-known
The issue of speed here is not shooting as much photo's as you can, but being fast enough to even catch a photo of a three year old having fun. I'm sure you can do this with a TLR if you close the lens enough, use the hyperfocal and a big mean flash. But that's not everyones thing. The image above illustrates this fine.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Just a suggestion out of experience of picking up film photography when my daughter was a toddler.
Not every photo of a child needs to be tack sharp
A lot of times some blurring can add drama and excitement, especially at that age.
You don't need automatic anything to make memorable photos. Manual camera is just fine, TLR is especially excellent for taking pictures of children because we can go down to their eye-level easier than any other types of cameras.
Not every photo of a child needs to be tack sharp
A lot of times some blurring can add drama and excitement, especially at that age.
You don't need automatic anything to make memorable photos. Manual camera is just fine, TLR is especially excellent for taking pictures of children because we can go down to their eye-level easier than any other types of cameras.
mrjr
Established
I find myself in an eerily similar place, clickclickmumma.
I recently got much more passionate and active in shooting film. My favorite subject is my two-year-old daughter. Most of my shooting is on-the-go, candid portraits—almost no posed portraiture. I shot quite a bit of 35mm, and then bought a Bronica ETRS. I love the results, but I have to admit that I don't care for the handling of the camera. I'm very attracted to the Fuji GA and GS cameras for the smaller size, quicker operation, 6x4.5 aspect ratio (4:3 is the best!), the 35mm "equivalent" lens, and so on.
Sounds a lot like your story.
The only things that have me hesitating are the portrait orientation shooting, and the reportedly sketchy robustness of both the GA and (especially) the GS (and the limited repair options). And the money, although I know these Fujis are close to the bargain basement of the MF world. It's just the idea of spending $300-400 on something that might blink out at any moment.
So, I can't really offer you any advice, but I am subscribed to this thread to follow any more input people might have about these cameras.
I recently got much more passionate and active in shooting film. My favorite subject is my two-year-old daughter. Most of my shooting is on-the-go, candid portraits—almost no posed portraiture. I shot quite a bit of 35mm, and then bought a Bronica ETRS. I love the results, but I have to admit that I don't care for the handling of the camera. I'm very attracted to the Fuji GA and GS cameras for the smaller size, quicker operation, 6x4.5 aspect ratio (4:3 is the best!), the 35mm "equivalent" lens, and so on.
Sounds a lot like your story.
The only things that have me hesitating are the portrait orientation shooting, and the reportedly sketchy robustness of both the GA and (especially) the GS (and the limited repair options). And the money, although I know these Fujis are close to the bargain basement of the MF world. It's just the idea of spending $300-400 on something that might blink out at any moment.
So, I can't really offer you any advice, but I am subscribed to this thread to follow any more input people might have about these cameras.
ottluuk
the indecisive eternity
Some observations from a fairly new TLR owner. For an upcoming project, I decided that I wanted to shoot colour 120, 6x6 or larger, hand-held and with a sharp, detailed look. The camera needed to be travel-friendly - i.e. reasonably compact and not too heavy. Like you, I found the Mamiya 6 perfect on paper but too expensive. So I bought an older model Rolleiflex with 75mm f/3.5 Zeiss Planar for roughly half the going price for a Mamiya 6 + 75/3.5 kit.
First, the lens is disturbingly good.
Second, the camera can be operated quite fast if you know your exposure beforehand. But nowhere near as intuitively as a good "modern" rangefinder, IMHO. You need to break eye contact with the subject to view the ground glass, the view itself is reversed, winding takes your finger away from the trigger and so on. A Leica M is much more transparent in use, for example. But that is not to say that a TLR is not pleasant to use - just needs somewhat more concentration. Which might not be a bad thing.
Third, the self-contained boxy shape makes the TLR quite easy to stuff it into medium-sized bags and it's easy to move around with, unless you insist on flat laptop satchels. Weight hasn't really been a problem.
In conclusion, I'm pretty happy with my 'flex but it's not an action camera. At least not in my hands
.agfa100
Well-known
I have both the GS 645S and the GS 645W they are great little cameras, I purchased the S new and the W used. Until the last 5 years they were my cameras of choice, now I have joined the dark side and mostly use digital Sony RX-1. You use the Fuji because of the lenses and they are the same size or smaller then a DSLR and much lighter. Needless to say I like the idea of a one lens camera makes life a whole lot easier. All you need to do is grab the Fuji and a couple rolls of film and head out....
wbill
wbill