Getting 120 film onto a Paterson spiral

[jamiewakeham]

Hi all

Perhaps I'm just being dense. I'm just about getting my head around how all this b&w development is supposed to work, when I finally manage to justify a medium format camera to myself (well, to my girlfriend, more importantly).

So through goes a roll of HP5. And then I find myself looking at this, well, roll of paper rather than film, which has no sprocket holes.

So - before I ruin my first ever roll of 120. Does it just feed into the spiral in exactly the same way as a roll of 35mm, despite it's lack of sporcket holes? And what the hell happens to the paper backing?

Thanks in advance, as always!

Jamie

ps have also just bought a V700, so finally will be able to start showing off my pics 🙂

 

[jonasv]

Jamie,

a lot of people say it's hard to load 120 film on Paterson film. Personally, I am not the handiest person to grace the earth (euphemism for "I'm a total klutz") but I never had a single problem doing it, so I wouldn't worry too much.

When you unroll the finished 120 in the darkroom, the paper backing comes loose from the negative - very easy to feel, I could describe it but there really is nothing to it: paper and negative simply separate. At one side the negative is attached to the paper, just pull it off, not hard. Then, there's still no sprocket holes in the film but that is not a problem either: just load the film on the reels as you would with 35mm, gently, twisting the reels back and forth and it'll slide right on.

Good luck, looking forward to your results!

 

[sf]

All I do is go into a dark bathroom, cut the tape on the roll of film with my fingernail, and unroll it, then tear the paper backing off. You can tell the paper backing from the film because it tears and it feels like paper.

Then, you insert the film into the reel and just roll it in there twisting the sides back and forth. Easy, really. I did it right the first time.

ONly things to remember : don't try to load wet reels (make sure they are 100% dry) use a hair dryer on low if necessary. Be gentle - don't put kinks and creases in the film.

I load my film so the emulsion side is loaded onto the inside curves of the spiral - this is how it should be done, and that will minimize friction.

 

[jamiewakeham]

Thanks, chaps! I'll let you know tomorrow how it went...

Cheers
Jamie

 

[wyk_penguin]

Get those reels with an oversized lip or get stainless stell ones. Those won't kink you film.

 

[Goodyear]

I've had no problems with patersons.

I did much better when I figured out to seperate the film and backing completely before I tried to load it on the reels. In the dark bag, they both roll up by themselves, so I have a roll of paper and a roll of film. The film goes on the reel dead easy.

 

[hth]

It can be a bit fiddly to get 120 onto the spiral, I had one film that was extremely stubborn. I think the problem is due to the wide film, getting it aligned properly on both sides can be a bit tricky. But most of the time it works quite fine with some minor bad language.

/Håkan

 

[jlw]

Here's a tip that makes it easier to load 120 rollfilm onto a Paterson spiral reel:

As others have said, you begin (in the dark) by letting the paper backing fall loose from the film and then removing the paper backing, which will be taped onto the film at one end.

When you do this, though, DON'T cut or tear through the tape; instead, just peel the paper backing loose from it, leaving the tape adhered on the film. Then, fold the tape over the end of the film. (Practice once in the light with a scrap film so you'll understand what you're trying to do.) Introduce this taped end into the reel and load normally.

The fold of tape reinforces the film so it's much less likely to buckle as you slip it into the grooves of the reel. I've never had a loading problem since I started using this method.

 

[Solinar]

Patterson plastic spirals have a ball bearing along the entry track to lock the film in place. I blow a shot of canned air across this to make sure the ball bearing moves freely. Sometimes these balls get stuck and become a hindrance.

To avoid kinking the film, use the folded tape method.

Also, wiith the hand that holds the Patterson reel, hold the reel so that two of your fingers lay outer entry entry tracks. Your curled fingers act as a guide to prevent the film dislodging from the outer entry tracks and let you know immediate when things don't feel right.

 

[jamiewakeham]

Thanks, all. I'll (hopefully) post results tomorrow...

I assume, btw, that the dev time is identical to that for 35mm film?

On a different note, I've just managed to expose a roll of Delta 100 at ISO 400, through reasons of stupidity! The Massive Dev Chart doesn't have a time for this in DD-X... any ideas? It shows exposure at 100 needing twelve minutes, and exposure at 200 needing 14 min. I'm thinking about 17 min?

Cheers
Jamie

 

[GeneW]

A footnote to the above: you might want to save some of the rolls of paper backing if you ever intend to set up a temporary darkroom. Back in the day before scanners, I used to tape up the black backing paper to block light leaks. It's very useful opaque material.

Gene

 

[jamiewakeham]

A nice idea, Gene! I've actually given up with converting my bathroom - I'm getting on fine with setting up dev in a changing bag, and having just bought a scanner I think the gf would kill me if I tried to borrow my friend's enlarger right now...

Anyone got any ideas on the underexposed Delta 100?

Cheers
Jamie

 

[titrisol]

Thanks, all. I'll (hopefully) post results tomorrow...

I assume, btw, that the dev time is identical to that for 35mm film?

On a different note, I've just managed to expose a roll of Delta 100 at ISO 400, through reasons of stupidity! The Massive Dev Chart doesn't have a time for this in DD-X... any ideas? It shows exposure at 100 needing twelve minutes, and exposure at 200 needing 14 min. I'm thinking about 17 min?

Cheers
Jamie

35mm times are approximately equalt to those on 120.

Now for the underexposed Delta100..... shadow detail will be the main problem, and avoid blooming the highlight.
EXPOSE FOR THE SHADOW, DEVELOP FOR THE HIGHLIGHT

In DDX 1+4 17 muinutes may give you decent results, but if you want to get as much shadow detail as possible develop for 18 minutes, but agitate only for the first 20-30secs, then every third minute in that way you avoid blooming the highlights.
Diluting developer can help you avoiding burnt highlights, you can use DDX 1+9 for 35 minutes agitating every 5 minutes.

 

[jamiewakeham]

Damn. I learned several things last night.

Firstly, I learned that loading a 120 roll isn't that hard.

Then I learned why they say you need to scrupulously clean your squeegee...

Then I learned that my scanner still doesn't want to talk to my computer, so I still don't have anything to show you guys 🙁

But worst of all, I learned that there seems to be a light leak. That's the right diagnosis, isn't it, if every frame has a funny little triangular dark patch in the same place? Extending from out on the film base into each frame... I'll shoot another test roll tonight and see what happens.

This all annoyed me so much that I couldn't bring myself to dev the 35mm roll, so I'll do that tonight as well.

Bother. More tomorrow...

Cheers,
Jamie

 

[titrisol]

If the triangles are all in the same place, it looks like a light leak in the camera.

I would strongyl reccomend against squeeging film, i is a lot better to use a little of photoflow and hang the film to Dry.
You can use your bathroom, but first run the shower for a couple of minutes to humidify the room and make the dust settle.

 

[lushd]

Just a footnote. Some film is more troublesome than others. I find Fomapan loads onto Paterson reels without a struggle whereas EFKE/ADOX curls and won't play happily. This causes swearing! Much also depends on the weather, in the UK the mildness and humidity all year round helps to keep film relaxed and easier to load. Dry and cold weather makes it a bit harder. I find just holding a roll of EFKE in my hand or keeping it in my pocket for a few minutes before loading warms it enough to make it relax. Have fun!

 

[kaiyen]

I'm with Pablo (and many others) on this - don't squeegee. Too much chance of scratching the film, and ther really isn't any reason to bother IMO.

And I am impressed that folks can get 120 film onto Paterson reels with the small, triangular guides so easily. Maybe I just sweat too much, but I could never get good at it, and often had little UFOs in my negatives from where the film kinked and got bent.

My big-lipped AP Photo/Samigon style reels, in comparison, are a dream.

allan

 

[markinlondon]

I was dreading loading my first rolls of 120 onto my Paterson reels having read so many horror stories on the interweb. I was pleasantly surprised how easily it went on.

Mark

 

[titrisol]

Alan, geting 120 in the paterson reels is no biggie.
I normally just roll the paper enough to expose the film, push the film thorugh the ball bearings and pull it a bit more forward.... after that is just twist and shout....

 

[kaiyen]

For some reason I've just never had consistent success with the regular Paterson reels. Guess it's just me.

allan