thegman
Veteran
Hi all,
Not that long ago, I got myself a Mamiya 7 and 65mm lens. I am delighted with the results, it takes outstanding pictures and the lens is faultless.
However, after several trips out with it, I'm just not sure I like how it works, I find the knobs stiff and fiddly, and I don't like the way you have to push a button to unlock the shutter speed dial, exposure compensation etc.
Call me shallow, I also don't like how it looks. When I got my ZI, gasps were heard in awe of it's beauty, not so much with the Mamiya.
So, has anyone gone down this path, regretted it? Or maybe know they made the right choice? I figure the Mamiya traded in could net me a nice Hasselblad like a 501, even a 503 model?
I like the idea of film backs, so easy to swap out film types/speeds. The SLR approach is totally new to me and might be interesting, also extension tubes and the like are cheap and look like fun.
I would not leave range finders entirely of course, the ZI is my main camera and that's unlikely to change.
Thanks!
Garry
Not that long ago, I got myself a Mamiya 7 and 65mm lens. I am delighted with the results, it takes outstanding pictures and the lens is faultless.
However, after several trips out with it, I'm just not sure I like how it works, I find the knobs stiff and fiddly, and I don't like the way you have to push a button to unlock the shutter speed dial, exposure compensation etc.
Call me shallow, I also don't like how it looks. When I got my ZI, gasps were heard in awe of it's beauty, not so much with the Mamiya.
So, has anyone gone down this path, regretted it? Or maybe know they made the right choice? I figure the Mamiya traded in could net me a nice Hasselblad like a 501, even a 503 model?
I like the idea of film backs, so easy to swap out film types/speeds. The SLR approach is totally new to me and might be interesting, also extension tubes and the like are cheap and look like fun.
I would not leave range finders entirely of course, the ZI is my main camera and that's unlikely to change.
Thanks!
Garry
martin s
Well-known
Buy a Hasselblad eventually, keep the Mamiya. Neither replaces the other.
martin
martin
ChrisN
Striving
The Hasselblad will also let you use polariser and ND Grad (neutral density graduated) filters, which are difficult to use with rangefinder cameras. The Hasselblad is relatively slow to use compared to a rangefinder camera.
thegman
Veteran
Thanks for replies, I can't really justify having both, so I do want to try to decide between them. I can use an ND grad on the Mamiya not *too* badly, but of course it's not ideal and a polariser is just about impossible. One issue is that I like IR film/filters, which would be a real pain on the 'blad. I could just restrict my IR work to 35mm though.
Steve_F
Well-known
Swapping film backs and the ability for some stunning close up stuff on medium format. I could never sell my RZ67, no matter how much I want a 7 II.
I also use the RZ for street stuff.
Steve.
I also use the RZ for street stuff.
Steve.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
Most people go from the Blad to the Mamiya but I agree, the Mamiya is kind of crappy feeling. I will admit that is makes great photos, but then all the better cameras do well in this regard.
But, being a forum such as this, I'll behave predictably and suggest something else altogether... a classic Rolleiflex. Not only will strangers stop you to compliment you on your beautiful choice, but you'll experience old-world craftsmanship and smart ergonomics that are at least on par with Leica (it can be argued that it is even better). Of the three cameras in question, the TLR is probably the most reliable, and while you may prefer the 65mm or 60mm focal length, the discipline of a fixed 80mm is not a bad thing. And they are probably the easiest medium format cameras to load.
The Blads are nice too but they are bulkier, they require service every few years and they don't like dirt. All of the 60mm Zeiss lenses are excellent.
For either the Blad or the Flex, the top down viewing and focusing will be the biggest difference to get used to. Be sure to try one with a clean, modern screen and give yourself some time to adapt.
I grew up envying the Blad and eventually got a nice >$10K outfit. Then it was too expensive to take outdoors so I got a cheap Rolleiflex and shot all my best photos with it instead of the expensive kit left in the studio.
But, being a forum such as this, I'll behave predictably and suggest something else altogether... a classic Rolleiflex. Not only will strangers stop you to compliment you on your beautiful choice, but you'll experience old-world craftsmanship and smart ergonomics that are at least on par with Leica (it can be argued that it is even better). Of the three cameras in question, the TLR is probably the most reliable, and while you may prefer the 65mm or 60mm focal length, the discipline of a fixed 80mm is not a bad thing. And they are probably the easiest medium format cameras to load.
The Blads are nice too but they are bulkier, they require service every few years and they don't like dirt. All of the 60mm Zeiss lenses are excellent.
For either the Blad or the Flex, the top down viewing and focusing will be the biggest difference to get used to. Be sure to try one with a clean, modern screen and give yourself some time to adapt.
I grew up envying the Blad and eventually got a nice >$10K outfit. Then it was too expensive to take outdoors so I got a cheap Rolleiflex and shot all my best photos with it instead of the expensive kit left in the studio.
ruby.monkey
Veteran
Have you tried hiring an Hassy to see if it suits you? Since you're in London, someone like John Dellera can give you an intorduction to the camera at a reasonable cost. Also, have you considered non-Hasselblad cameras? The Mamiya RZ, for instance, is a superb system at a price that won't have you selling your kidneys.
I'd also suggest having a look at the Rollei 6000 cameras - possibly the most civilised 6x6 SLR system out there. Not too expensive, but you're pretty much SOL if ever you choose an older model and try to get it serviced or repaired.
I'd also suggest having a look at the Rollei 6000 cameras - possibly the most civilised 6x6 SLR system out there. Not too expensive, but you're pretty much SOL if ever you choose an older model and try to get it serviced or repaired.
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thegman
Veteran
Thanks for the advice Frank, I had not really considered that some screens would be better than others, so I'll watch out for that. At the moment I'm just considering Hasselblad, I like the idea of film backs, and also the SLR is attractive. I like the Rolleiflexes, never used one, but they look the business.
@ruby.monkey, hiring one is a good idea, I'll check it out. At the moment, I'm just thinking Hasselblad, simply because I don't want to confuse the issue right now. Hasselblad appeals to my gut instinct, and also they are not crazy expensive compared to the Mamiya 7.
@ruby.monkey, hiring one is a good idea, I'll check it out. At the moment, I'm just thinking Hasselblad, simply because I don't want to confuse the issue right now. Hasselblad appeals to my gut instinct, and also they are not crazy expensive compared to the Mamiya 7.
thegman
Veteran
Thanks Double Negative, the more I think about it, I think a 'blad makes sense for me, but I'll think on it a while. The size is off-putting, and the difficulty of shooting IR, also I've got so used to RF focusing now. However the benefits might outweigh all that for me, such as using filters and actually seeing what they are doing. The film backs sound good, getting any lens I want and not worrying about frame lines and accessory finders!
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Hasselblads are a class act but I'd have to label them as being a little pedantic design wise and I've never quite grown to love mine. Though when you get it right they can be rewarding to shoot with ... just for that shutter sound actually! 
In spite of the bulk I find my P67ii much more intuative to use ... the same can be said for my RF645.
I think Frank's suggestion of a Rolleiflex is a good idea.
In spite of the bulk I find my P67ii much more intuative to use ... the same can be said for my RF645.
I think Frank's suggestion of a Rolleiflex is a good idea.
Our household had a Hassleblad for a while. It was sooooo slow to shoot with. Great for portraits or macro, but street work or candids .... forget about it. Couldn't wait to sell it. Then got a Mamiya 7ii and loved it. It may be an ugly duckling, but its a much faster and more fun camera to shoot with. Its sold now as well, but if I was to shoot 120 again, I'd get another Mamiya 7ii without hesitation. Just sayin'
P.S. the spelling of "Hassleblad" is intentional
P.S. the spelling of "Hassleblad" is intentional
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thegman
Veteran
Well, I'm not a street shooter really, well, I shoot streets, but not people. I mostly shoot landscape, cityscape, architecture, and what I'd call "urban decay". For out and about shooting fast, I'll take the ZI every time. The Mamiya/Hasselblad is for when I go out explicitly to shoot, not "I'm out, so I'll take a camera" if you see what I mean.
@Keith, what part of the design would you consider pedantic? I've never used one, so I really wouldn't have a clue.
@Keith, what part of the design would you consider pedantic? I've never used one, so I really wouldn't have a clue.
Jamie123
Veteran
I had an extensive Hasseblad kit, sold it and got a Bessa III, then decided it wasn't for me and sold that one, too. I'm currently without a MF film camera (budget restrictions) but will get a Mamiya RZ67 in the near future as I want a 6x7 SLR.
I did like the Hasselblad a lot but I got bored of the square format. Also, Frank is right in pointing out that a Hasselblad will need servicing every few years. That wouldn't be so bad if it only applied to the body but since it's a modular system you'll find that the more extensive your kit gets (various lenses, backs) the more often a part of your kit will need servicing. In my case, even though my equipment was fairly current, this happened around every 6 months which gets really annoying and expensive.
That being said, I liked the Hasselblad a lot both in regards to useability and image quality. If my funds allowed it I'd certainly get one to use alongside other cameras.
The obvious advice is to try before you buy. However, if your funds allow it it's even better to buy the Hasselblad prior to selling the Mamiya 7. Keep both cameras for a while, wait until the novelty of the Hasselblad wears off and then make an informed decision on which one to keep.
I did like the Hasselblad a lot but I got bored of the square format. Also, Frank is right in pointing out that a Hasselblad will need servicing every few years. That wouldn't be so bad if it only applied to the body but since it's a modular system you'll find that the more extensive your kit gets (various lenses, backs) the more often a part of your kit will need servicing. In my case, even though my equipment was fairly current, this happened around every 6 months which gets really annoying and expensive.
That being said, I liked the Hasselblad a lot both in regards to useability and image quality. If my funds allowed it I'd certainly get one to use alongside other cameras.
The obvious advice is to try before you buy. However, if your funds allow it it's even better to buy the Hasselblad prior to selling the Mamiya 7. Keep both cameras for a while, wait until the novelty of the Hasselblad wears off and then make an informed decision on which one to keep.
oftheherd
Veteran
See entry #8 at http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92061 for a thumbnail report of the Mamiya Super Press. May not be your cup of tea since you seem to be leaning towards an MF SLR. And it's not as light as the Mamiya 7s, but so much more versatile. Using polarizer filters is tricky, but not impossible. IR filters are no problem since it is an RF. It does have extension tubes and GG backs if you would want.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
If you've ever owned an early Volvo (240 or 740) you'll understand!
Just a little quirky and there's a definite procedure involved with loading the fim back, having a dark slide to lose etc etc! A lot of fun though and the lenses are phenominal ... as are all Zeiss lenses IMO.
maddoc
... likes film again.
While Jon's household had a Hassy for a while, our household had a Mamiya 7ii for some time I shot maybe 10 rolls or so at least with the Mamiya in the short time that I had it and not a single roll with the Hassy for over a year now ... If one likes the RF concept and is not so used to SLR, then the Mamiya is more intuitive to use.
Also, from my experience, Hasselblad equals tripod ... I have used the 500 C/M hand-held, even at night but the full potential of a modern Zeiss Planar 80/2.8 CF T* can only be seen when the camera was used from a tripod, IMHO. The Hassy is great for studio-work with a neat strobe-system but for landscape and similar, I prefer a 4x5 from tripod, for candids any 135 rangefinder and for the occasional 6x6 photo, my Rolleiflex is better suited than my Hasselblad....
I shot maybe 10 rolls or so at least with the Mamiya in the short time that I had it and not a single roll with the Hassy for over a year now ... If one likes the RF concept and is not so used to SLR, then the Mamiya is more intuitive to use. Also, from my experience, Hasselblad equals tripod ... I have used the 500 C/M hand-held, even at night but the full potential of a modern Zeiss Planar 80/2.8 CF T* can only be seen when the camera was used from a tripod, IMHO. The Hassy is great for studio-work with a neat strobe-system but for landscape and similar, I prefer a 4x5 from tripod, for candids any 135 rangefinder and for the occasional 6x6 photo, my Rolleiflex is better suited than my Hasselblad....
Jamie123
Veteran
I think the Mamiya Super Press is a nice camera but it's quite big, ugly and, frankly, other than price it doesn't have much going for it compared to a rangefinder equipped LF camera.
thegman
Veteran
Thanks Keith, never owned a Volvo, but I think I see what you mean, it's not just slap a film in the back and off you go... If I get say 3 film backs though, I can load them all at home and not have to change in the field at all. For MF, I tend to only shoot 2-3 rolls at a time.
@maddoc: Well 4x5 is not for yet, although maybe one day when I have more time on my hands. A Rolleiflex is interesting, I do find myself drawn to an SLR though. Maybe I need the discipline of a tripod, I used to go out with one often when I first became interested in photography, I don't now, and it's very limiting when out at night.
@maddoc: Well 4x5 is not for yet, although maybe one day when I have more time on my hands. A Rolleiflex is interesting, I do find myself drawn to an SLR though. Maybe I need the discipline of a tripod, I used to go out with one often when I first became interested in photography, I don't now, and it's very limiting when out at night.
thegman
Veteran
I haven't needed to service anything on my 503CW (or three CF lenses) since getting it over a year ago... I think the biggest issue are the light seals on the backs (I've had no problems so far though) - and it's a cheap fix (<$10) for new seals. If you exercise the gear regularly, I suspect it'll be fine, like any.
As for needing a tripod, I would agree that's the best way to shoot. I'm too lazy myself - and actually shoot mine handheld 99% of the time.
LOL! Boxy, chrome accents. Hey, there's a certain kind of aesthetic there.
I was just about to ask about servicing, if it's just light seals, I can live with that. I agree about tripods, I love the flexibility, at night with Velvia 50, at f/22, I can still get the shot I want, even if it takes a 2 minute exposure.
The more I think about it, I think my mind is made up now...
pevelg
Well-known
I went the route of switching from the Mamiya 7ii to a Hasselblad.
First, I absolutely was in love with the Mamiya. It was my first introduction into Medium Format. I took it on several Alaska trips and have always loved the results. However, I was finding I rarely used the camera beyond my infrequent outdoor adventures. It's limitations regarding close focus were another hurdle. Changing film was a pain, especially if I was at a wedding or other event. I had used a Hassy before and got to play around with one during my photo class, right before I made my decision. I ended up trading my Mamiya 7ii kit with a RFF members Hassy kit (two full bodies, 60mm and 150mm lenses) and have yet to regret the trade. I am finding that I am shooting more with the Hassy. It is a slower camera, but that helps me in getting the picture right. After all, cost/shot is higher with MF. I also do prefer the 6x6 format. Something about the square is quite alluring. I've used the 150mm lens on the Mamiya and also on the Hassy. Let me tell you, it is WAYYYYYY easier on the Hassy. And it is also and amazing lens (as all Zeiss are). I do think trying a Rolleiflex, as Frank mentions, would be fun and maybe an easier shooter compared to the Hassy.
I have the Mamiya Press Universal and let me tell you that it is huge and heavy!!! Due to a leaf shutter though, it is easy to hand hold shots at low shutter speeds. You can also get 6x6, 6x7, or 6x9 backs for it. And its lenses, especially the 75mm and 100/f2.8 one, are extremely sharp and sweet lenses. However, if I was to keep one camera, it would be the Hassy. With the Mamiya Press, you have the added bonus of using Polaroids, which is my main film used in the Mamiya.
My only "regret" regarding the Mamiya 7ii is that when I go on one of my outdoor adventures again, I am going to be caring a rather heavy Hassy or Press instead of the lightweight Mamiya 7ii.
First, I absolutely was in love with the Mamiya. It was my first introduction into Medium Format. I took it on several Alaska trips and have always loved the results. However, I was finding I rarely used the camera beyond my infrequent outdoor adventures. It's limitations regarding close focus were another hurdle. Changing film was a pain, especially if I was at a wedding or other event. I had used a Hassy before and got to play around with one during my photo class, right before I made my decision. I ended up trading my Mamiya 7ii kit with a RFF members Hassy kit (two full bodies, 60mm and 150mm lenses) and have yet to regret the trade. I am finding that I am shooting more with the Hassy. It is a slower camera, but that helps me in getting the picture right. After all, cost/shot is higher with MF. I also do prefer the 6x6 format. Something about the square is quite alluring. I've used the 150mm lens on the Mamiya and also on the Hassy. Let me tell you, it is WAYYYYYY easier on the Hassy. And it is also and amazing lens (as all Zeiss are). I do think trying a Rolleiflex, as Frank mentions, would be fun and maybe an easier shooter compared to the Hassy.
I have the Mamiya Press Universal and let me tell you that it is huge and heavy!!! Due to a leaf shutter though, it is easy to hand hold shots at low shutter speeds. You can also get 6x6, 6x7, or 6x9 backs for it. And its lenses, especially the 75mm and 100/f2.8 one, are extremely sharp and sweet lenses. However, if I was to keep one camera, it would be the Hassy. With the Mamiya Press, you have the added bonus of using Polaroids, which is my main film used in the Mamiya.
My only "regret" regarding the Mamiya 7ii is that when I go on one of my outdoor adventures again, I am going to be caring a rather heavy Hassy or Press instead of the lightweight Mamiya 7ii.
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