Graflex Expert(s)

dazedgonebye

dazedgonebye

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Would the expert of Graflex please raise your hand?

I've been looking at these for awhile, but I remain far too ignorant to make any decisions on purchasing one.
 
No Expert

No Expert

But own a pretty extensively equiped Speed Graphic and have used a Graphlex 2.25 X 3.25 a bunch.
 
Wayne R. Scott said:
Steve,

This site answers a lot of questions:

http://www.graflex.org/cameras/.

What are you looking for in a camera? Perhaps I can answer some of your questions.

Wayne
Click to expand...

There are lots of 4x5 press cameras.
I second Wayne, spend some time at Graflex.org and get a feel for the varities of Graflex press cameras.

You may also want to consider a Busch Pressman 'D' or Meridian etc...

I have a side mount rangefinder 4x5 Crown Graphic, so I can answer question you may have on that model:)
 
Steve,

I have 4x5 Graphics in the following flavors: Speed Graphic Anniverary, Crown Graphic, Super Graphic, Graphic View I, and Graphic View II. I can probably answer a lot of questions (but not all questions, as I am far from an expert) on these particular models. I have some of the accessories, graphmatics, 2773 flash guns, RH10 roll film back, polaroid backs, reducing backs, and odds and ends of parts.

Wayne
 
Steve,

If you want maximum flexibility, opt for a 4x5 Pacemaker Speed Graphic with Kalart vertical rangefinder and Graflok back.

- 4x5 because it is the most versatile format. 6x9 is better left for MF cameras. 5x7 or larger is difficult to handle and recent Speed Graphic models are not available in these formats.

- Pacemaker, because it is the last Speed Graphic model with focal plane shutter, which is the raison d'être of the Speed Graphic. Older models do not offer the drop bed, tilting front standard and adjustable infinity stops. You can find a more recent, smaller and lighter Crown Graphic or Century Graphic, but these don't have the focal plane shutter, precluding the use of old barrel and other experimental lenses. Same for the most recent Super Speed Graphic or Super Graphic, which are nonetheless excellent cameras.

- There were 3 different rangefinders offered on the Speed Graphic: the side mounted Hugo Meyer rangefinder, the side mounted Kalart rangefinder and the top mounted Kalart rangefinder. Only the second one is user adjustable to accommodate different lenses. With the other models, you'll be stuck with just one rangefinder-coupled lens.

- The Graflok back will allow you to mount anything on your camera: all type of roll film backs, Polaroid backs, sheet film holders, plate or magazine backs, Grafmatics, etc.

Of course, your kilometerage may vary. If you plan to shoot with super wide lenses (65mm or shorter), you'll fare better with the Crown Graphic, if you want a nice looking 5x7 camera with a focal plane shutter and great dark gray finish, opt for the pre-anniversary Speed Graphic, etc.

Prices are highy variable on eBay. Look for complete camera sets, because you won't pay more than for the camera body only and you could get a wealth of accessories in the box. You can find a nice Pacemaker complete with lens and rollfilm back for $152.50 (I just got one today: 130072776925, that's about the price for the back alone) or pay $1248 for almost the same camera with an unusable flash gun and no rollfilm back (270085490161). Usually, models with a Graflok back sell for more, so you could buy a cheaper camera without one and find some donor junk camera to cannibalize its back.

Cheers,

Abbazz
 
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Thanks for the responses guys. I'm trying to buy a book on the subject as well.

Abbazz,
I doubt I'd find the need for wider than 65mm, I was thinking 90mm. I
I think I'd like to have the higher speeds of the speed graphic.
I was thinking that super-speed graphic would be worthwhile for the rotating back. I'm not sure I understood what you were saying about the super....
Because I was thinking of wide (90mm) and tele (250ish?), I'd like the adjustable rangefinder. Did I understand you to say that is only available on the top mounted Kalart finders?

From what I'm reading here, it sounds like I want a Speed graphic with a top mounted Kalart finder and the graflok back.
That would give me the movements and lens flexibility.
 
Definitely a Graflok back (not a spring back) as it is the standard 4x5 interchangeable back system.

get a roll-film back eventually so you can use, doh, roll film when you don't feel like mesing with sheet film

get a few Grafmatic backs eventually. these hold 6 pieces of sheet film and facilitate quick changes from one to the next

4x5 size

Speed Graphic with focal plane shutter so you can experiment with funky lenses in barrel (without built-in shutters)
 
dazedgonebye said:
I was thinking that super-speed graphic would be worthwhile for the rotating back. I'm not sure I understood what you were saying about the super....
Because I was thinking of wide (90mm) and tele (250ish?), I'd like the adjustable rangefinder. Did I understand you to say that is only available on the top mounted Kalart finders?
Click to expand...

Steve,

Sorry, my first post was not very clear.

The Super Speed Graphic and the Super Graphic are wonderful pieces of craftsmanship. Their overall build quality is better than the other Speed Graphics' and they offer better front movements, but they lack a focal plane shutter, so they are not quite as useful as the older cameras when it comes to experiment with old barrel lenses. You'd better stay away from the Super Speed Graphic, as its 1/1000sec Graflex shutter (imagine that: flash sync. at 1/1000sec!) is very prone to failure.

As for the Speed Graphic, I think the best rangefinder is the side-mounted Kalart, which is easy to adjust (link). The top-mounted Kalart requires a custom shaped cam for every lens. You will usually get one cam for the lens attached to the camera when you buy it, but unfortunately cams for other lenses are virtually unobtainable. The side-mounted Hugo Meyer has a fixed cam, which is dedicated to one particular lens and cannot be replaced.

Cheers,

Abbazz
 
Steve,

Good advice from everyone so far. If you are wanting a press-type camera for the large format negative then the Pacemaker Speed Graphic is an excellent way to go.

If you are looking for a "field view camera" for outdoor landscape photos the Super Graphic or Super Speed Graphic (the camera bodies are the same as neither of them have a focal plane shutter. The Super Speed had a lens mounted in a leaf shutter that had 1/1000 speed that has a tendency to explode and not be repairable) allows more lens movements for front rise, tilt, shift and swing. Plus they are composed of a robust metal body. In the real world very few movements are required for landscape photos. The Crown Graphic is a lighter and narrower body than the Speed Graphics because it does not have the shutter curtain built into the body. The Crown has a second tripod mount located on the left side under the hand strap. I use two quick release plates on my Crown, one on the side and one on the bottom. If I need a portrait view I simply remove the camera from the tripod and mount it on its side for the portrait view.

If you want to use a variety of lens that are not mounted in shutter the Speed Graphic is the way to go.

Lens that are very common with the Graphics are the 127mm Ektar and 135mm Optar. Both of these are slightly wider than a normal lens in 35mm speak. Their image circle will just barely cover 4x5 negative with no camera movements (tilt, swing, rise, etc.).

If you are looking for a longer focal length I can reccomend the Kodak Ektar 203mm f7.7. This is a small and sharp older lens.

If you are shopping for a Graphic on line be aware that the Speed Graphics were made in 2x3, 3x4, 4x5 and 5x7 format. Often sellers will list a 3x4 camera as a 4x5 camera mainly out of ignorance. To them the 3x4 is much bigger than 35mm (which it is) so it has to be a 4x5 camera:) 3x4 film is a lot harder to find than 4x5. If you find a 5x7 Graphic for around say $50 do NOT buy it, send me the information and I will make sure that it is removed from the market place.

Wayne
 
Ok...refining things a bit.
It looks like a crown graphic or speed graphic with side mounted kalart rangefinder is the way for me to go.
I do intend to do landscapes as well as hand-held. I'd like the idea of extra speed, but do I really need it? I mean, I can just slip in 100 iso film when there is plenty of light and 400 when there is not. Or does that just make life too complicated from a practical point of view?
I won't care for the "Normal" lenses very much. I tend to like wide and short-tele. I use, in this order, 35mm, 75mm, 21mm, 50mm in 35mm photography.
So I'm thinking something equivalent to 28-35mm and 75-90mm on the long end (I need to do the conversions for 4x5, I think I know a web based converter).
I would use both lenses for landscapes. Coverage to allow for movement at the wide end would be important. How about at the tele end? I'd think it would be....
 
Ok, I've done a littel piddling with the numbers and comparing diagonal FOV (a less than perfect tool I know, but close enough for me), I've come up with these equivalents.

65mm on 4x5 = 18mm on 35mm
90mm on 4x5 = 26mm on 35mm
127mm on 4x5 = 35mm on 35mm
135mm on 4x5 = 38mm on 35mm
250mm on 4x5 = 70mm on 35mm
300mm on 4x5 = 85mm on 35mm

So....
The standard lenses end up being very handy for my purposes as a walk around lens.
A 90mm that allowed for movement would be highly desireable, as would something in 250-300mm.

Are lenses as long as 250-300mm practical on a Graflex?
 
dazedgonebye said:
Are lenses as long as 250-300mm practical on a Graflex?
Click to expand...


I would say no, unless all of your shots will be at infinity. A non tele-photo lens requires an equivalent length of bellows. A 10" lens requires 10" of bellows. Most of the Graphics bellows are maxed out in the 11" to 12" range. If your subject is closer than infinity you will need more bellows length in order to focus. This is one of the reasons I suggested the 203mm f7.7 Ektar. It will allow for movements on the 4x5 format and it will cover 5x7 format. I think that you will find that in the real world 4x5 is different than 35mm in your lens equivalents. I know mathmatically they appear to be the same, but for me at least they do not "look" the same on 4x5. I actually like a 190mm Ektar f4.5 for portraits, which by 35mm standards is too short of a focal length. But then I probably am not quite right in the head when it comes to this photo stuff.

A 90mm lens that allows movements will be large in size and fairly big bucks to obtain. I would look for a Kodak 100mm Wide Field Ektar for a small wider angle lens with some coverage for movements.

Wayne
 
I'm just poking around on the internet a bit, and I'm having a hard time finding lenses that are said to have enough coverage for movements on 4x5. I don't get it.
 
dazedgonebye said:
I'm just poking around on the internet a bit, and I'm having a hard time finding lenses that are said to have enough coverage for movements on 4x5. I don't get it.
Click to expand...

If you are doing landscape photography then you will not need a lot of movements, you need about 150mm image circle for 4x5 coverage. So any lens with more than 150mm coverage will work fine (depending on edge softness for that lens). The wide field lenses are more expensive and harder to find but they are out there.

Another link to Large Format Photography Info
Lens buying guide for Graphics
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=477141
 
Hey guys, would one of the convertibles work on a Graphic?

Convertible Lenses
At one time, many large format lenses were convertibles. These lenses were attractive because they are, essentially, two or more lenses in one. Removing the front element of the lens increases the focal length. With a triple convertible, rearranging the elements according to the manufacturer's design gives the photographer three different focal lengths.

Without going into great detail regarding these interesting lenses, it is safe to say that there are compromises with these designs. While the shorter focal length is usually a good lens, "converting" it generally is considered to reduce image quality. One way to improve image quality when using black and white film with a "converted" lens is to use a yellow filter.

Many photographers feel that these older convertible lenses are greatly inferior to today's excellent range of single focal length view camera lenses. On the other hand, it is undeniable that many outstanding photographs were made with convertibles. Some of Ansel Adams' classic photographs, including "Moonrise," Hernandez New Mexico, "Clearing Winter Storm," Yosemite National Park, "Aspens," Northern New Mexico, and "Mount Williamson" from Manzanar, California were all taken with a Cooke Series XV triple convertible lens. (We should all be similarly hampered by such inadequate equipment!)

Users can often find excellent values in used convertible lenses, which will give them a fine prime focal length, and, at the very least, a serviceable longer focal length when converted. If you are interested in a used convertible, older Schneider Symmar lenses (not the APO-Symmar or the Symmar-S models) are good choices. Other classic convertible lenses include the Bausch and Lomb Protar, and the Turner Reich triple convertible.

Wisner Classic Manufacturing offers the only newly manufactured convertible lenses available today, called the Wisner Convertible Plasmat. The set is a replica of the Protar, and is made up of several single lens cells that can be combined to create a variety of focal lengths. The 4x5 and 5x7 sets are mounted on a Copal No. 1 shutter. The 8x10 set is mounted on a Copal No. 3 shutter. A yellow filter is required with black and white film. An item called a "zero power corrector" is required to correct color fringing and other issues when using color film. The sets and accessories are quite expensive. Schneider manufactures the optics to Wisner's specifications. The lenses are assembled and tested by Wisner.
Click to expand...

I remember seeing several on ebay recently.

Grinning. I'm a closet 4x5 kind of person. I had one complete with darkroom way back when and let it all get away from me. I've been harboring the need to repurchase since forever. So far I have resisted.

I see the other Wayne posted the large format lens link I've been using.

OH DROOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wide Grandagons and long Nikkors on ebay.
 
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kmack said:
If you are doing landscape photography then you will not need a lot of movements, you need about 150mm image circle for 4x5 coverage. So any lens with more than 150mm coverage will work fine (depending on edge softness for that lens). The wide field lenses are more expensive and harder to find but they are out there.

Another link to Large Format Photography Info
Lens buying guide for Graphics
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=477141
Click to expand...

See, my ignorance is so deep that I've not been asking the right questions or properly defining my needs.
I don't anticipate doing much in the way of architectural photography with this thing. The main movement I'm really interested in would be tilt. So, I need lenses to support that.
 
Imagine shining a flashlight on a 4X5 card and the goal is to cover all the card equally with light as one tilts or swings either the card or the flashlight so the light still covers the card equally. This is more than a vignetting issue, in large format it's an image circle. So, a lens that is good for a 5 X 7 is great for swings and tilts on a 4 X 5, likewise a 2.25 X 3.25 lens will generally work on a 4 X 5 but with no swings or tilts. Get the 203 Ektar if you want great coverage. It's what I have. They are readily available, cheap and they are SHARP (but SLOW).

The advantage to the press cameras is that they are easily transported, and small when collapsed. They are physically smaller and weigh less than the latest Canon Digital Monsters with a zoom. However, they do not extend very far, they rise and fall and tilt but may not swing (but in all cases only from the front, not the back too). They can be rangerfinder coupled, and believe me, focusing on ground glass with a slow lens can be tough.

If you really want to get into 4 X 5 I recommend the Graphic View II over a press camera. You really don't need the focal plane shutter, and you can more freely experiment with lenses and they usually cost under $100 to get into. As others have already said, it's best to get a package that already has everything you need to get started. They still turn up all the time for next to nothing.

Although Ansel would cringe at this, Edward Weston said, 'I don't shoot anything I can't get to with a car'. Just consider your priorities.

I also own a Zone VI for 4 X 5 back packing. It is very light, but a pain to set up. There is a point of diminishing returns in large format, hence my recommendation for the Graphic View. It's a far better introduction to ALL photography than a press camera. I was very lucky to learn large format before I got into 35mm, and I applaud you for your desire to get into real cameras. Now there are cheap used scanners that easily managed 4 X 5 transparencies, and large format is cheap, usually around a buck a shot. Images that are 400 Megs to a Gig in size are breathtaking!
 
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