Has anyone ever successfully converted an M body to metal shutter curtains?

[Ken Ford]

The only serious complaint I have with Leica M cameras is the fabric shutter - without an SLR mirror to protect them, they're very susceptible to burning. I know it makes me hypersensitive about keeping the lens capped when outdoors.

Has anyone ever successfully converted their M to foil curtains? I've heard of this being done to Nikon RFs, but never for an M.

 

[Al Kaplan]

Turn the camera around when haging from your shoulder so the lens faces your body. With longer lenses the lens is usually hanging pointed down anyway. As easy as it is to patch a cloth curtain I can't see where it would be economical to pay for a custom installation of metal curtains. If metal curtains are all that inportant to you several of the last RFDR Canon models had metal foil curtains.

 

[Ken Ford]

Al, I wouldn't convert a body unless it needed new curtains anyway.

And M lenses don't fit too well on a Canon. 😉

 

[ZorkiKat]

And you must consider too the M shutter's design. The mechanism was designed to work with fabric shutters- of a certain flexibility, of a certain thickness, and a particular weight.
Substituting anything else may cause an erratic function at worst. At best, you may get a shutter with burnproof shutter curtains which can move erratically. Or require more tensioning causing heavier winding and harder firing.

The Nikon shutter mechanism had been altered to suit the metal blinds.

Fabric shutters aren't really that delicate. I use a lot of RF with fabric shutters and I've not seen one burn a hole yet- and they are here in the tropics.

 

[jmcd]

I had surmised that burned holes were allowed by pointing the uncapped lens to a light source and holding steady, such as setting the camera on a table and leaving it to sit there while the light burns in a concentrated location.

When I am walking around photographing my lens is pointing all over the place, so I don't make a big effort to protect it unless I am walking right into the sun. Time will tell if this is a good practice or not.

 

[Pablito]

The fabric shutter makes for a quiet shutter. I would not give that up. In 25 yrs of using Leicas professionally and not worrying about it, I never burned a hole in the shutter. You know it can happen, that's precaution enough AFAIC.

 

[Beemermark]

The only shutter I've ever had to replace was in a 60 year old IIIF body. In 40 years I've never burned a hole in a Leica shutter. Of all the thing s to worry about this isn't one of them.

However, I was taught a long time ago never to argue with anyone who wanted to spend money - no matter how ridiculous. I'm sure you can someone to do it.

 

[aizan]

it happens, but you never lose more than one roll of film or one day of taking photos. use liquid rubber to fill in any holes.

 

[Ken Ford]

The only shutter I've ever had to replace was in a 60 year old IIIF body. In 40 years I've never burned a hole in a Leica shutter. Of all the thing s to worry about this isn't one of them.

However, I was taught a long time ago never to argue with anyone who wanted to spend money - no matter how ridiculous. I'm sure you can someone to do it.

Ridiculous, eh?

http://leica.nemeng.com/025b.shtml

Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's not a risk. Try being a little more openminded, or at least polite.

 

[Ken Ford]

My experience is with Nikon pro bodies which have been titanium since almost day one. Yes, they will wrinkle and dent, but they last forever. And an F2 is almost as quiet as an M when the mirror is locked up - I think the noise difference between a horizontally traveling cloth and metal shutter is negligible.

 

[Ken Ford]

Here at RFF, a shutter burning test...

With my Canon 50mm f1,2 mounted the shutter burns instantly. Really, directly. At f2 it burns within a second, at f4 there is smoke within 10 seconds. Very alarming!
I could not mount my 90mm collapsible Elmar M on the Zorki, but handheld at focus distance the shutter burned at f4 within a second. At 5,6 it took only a few seconds.

 

[jmcd]

from the above linked shutter burning test "In other words, at minimum focus the sun is projected sharply on the curtain. That means highest energy."

Al Kaplan suggest to leave your lens at rest at infinity, as that way you always know which way to turn the lens to bring your subject in focus. According to the lens burning test, keeping the lens at infinity will also reduce the chance of burning a hole in your cloth shutter.

I'm glad you brought up the topic, Ken.

As an aside, I have Canon F1 slr cameras, and their metal shutters do not seem to wrinkle as readily as the Canon P (not that this causes a problem, anyway).

 

[Ken Ford]

I usually leave my lenses at something approaching hyperfocal distance while I wander so I can grab shots quickly. As I said, I deal with it by keeping my lenses capped when I think there's a risk of burning - I just feel a metal curtain would be preferred if one were available.

 

[awilder]

After burning a hole in my MP and subsequently replacing it's curtain, I bought a Hexar RF. The rf build quality, 28-135 framelines, metal shutter with super accurate speeds to 1/4000, AE, motor and many other features make it a great user. The relatively low price beats most other rfs. Use this in bright daylight and save your cherished Leica M for low light and quiet indoor shots where it really shines and sunburned shutters can't happen.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Like other long-term Leica users -- nearly 40 years -- I have never burned a hole in a shutter (this should guarantee it happens tomorrow...)

Yes, it can happen. Yes, I've heard of it happening. But as someone else said, there are an awful lot of things that are higher on my list of worries than this happening.

Look at it this way: why would any sane person be carrying an f/2 or faster lens at full aperture in bright sunlight, except by accident? And at f/5.6 and below, burning takes so long you'd need to leave the camera on a table pointing into the sun.

Cheers,

R.

 

[BillBingham2]

Ken, Buy an old

Ken, Buy an old

Ridiculous, eh?

http://leica.nemeng.com/025b.shtml

Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's not a risk. Try being a little more openminded, or at least polite.

Your answer is to buy an old Nikon SP or S3! Come the darkest side, we have cookies! While my rf has a cloth shutter, I love it. Prices are really good right now.

I even have a 35/2.5 CV in Nikon/Contax mount I will sell you for a good price!

B2 (;->

 

[marke]

Ridiculous, eh?

http://leica.nemeng.com/025b.shtml

Just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's not a risk. Try being a little more openminded, or at least polite.

Yeah, this was the scary one!
http://leica-users.org/v27/msg06731.html

 

[jmkelly]

Ken Ruth replaced the stuck/melted-looking shutter curtains in an old Nikon S with Ti curtains from an organ donor F for me. Yes my cloth-curtain Leicas are quieter, but my cloth-curtain S2 is not. I'm saving up to ask Ken for another transplant for the S2 - that will be my bright-daylight street camera.

 

[jonmanjiro]

After burning a hole in my MP and subsequently replacing it's curtain, I bought a Hexar RF.

Another option is a Zeiss Ikon, or any Bessa body. Metal shutters all the way!

 

[laptoprob]

And at f/5.6 and below, burning takes so long you'd need to leave the camera on a table pointing into the sun.

Well, that's the scary thing from my test. At f4, a 50mm lens started burning within 10 seconds. Focused at the curtain, about close focus.

Setting the lens at infinity only reduces the burn intensity. Not enough to be safe.

Use a lens cap!