rolleistef
Well-known
Hello,
do you think Leica has finally been saved by the M8? Or will the situation get worse because of the importance of the investment? Or will it change nothing?
do you think Leica has finally been saved by the M8? Or will the situation get worse because of the importance of the investment? Or will it change nothing?
ywenz
Veteran
Has the M8 been released and sales figure on it come out yet? Nope.. I guess we'll have to wait and see
markinlondon
Elmar user
Not yet...
Should the question be "will the M8 save Leica?"
Personally I think Leica will occupy the same pro/rich amateur niche they've always been in except now they have a top-rank digital RF as well. It may make a difference to their finances, but as ywenz said only time will tell.
Should the question be "will the M8 save Leica?"
Personally I think Leica will occupy the same pro/rich amateur niche they've always been in except now they have a top-rank digital RF as well. It may make a difference to their finances, but as ywenz said only time will tell.
S
sreidvt
Guest
Yes, I think the M8 (and other new products over time) will indeed save Leica.
Cheers,
Sean
Cheers,
Sean
Xmas
Veteran
It may be another M5, they could have saved a lot of money and left the Drgfdr to Cosina and Epsom.
Noel
Noel
BillBingham2
Registered User
IMHO the M8 is a great first step. They are working with one of their strengths, but the need to be more than just the M8 if they are going to stay the same size (or grow). They need to bring the R suite of lenses out in 4/3s mount. They have a great stable of glass, they need to leverage it. I think the R line of lenses and bodies might not be contributing as much as it should (read turning a profit) but it should be leveraged, not dumped.
Lets give it three quarters to see. The M8 might be their iPod, but I doubt it.
B2 (;->
Lets give it three quarters to see. The M8 might be their iPod, but I doubt it.
B2 (;->
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Xmas said:
Noel,
That's an interesting comparison. The M5 as much as it was a disaster when it was released has subsequently become a collectable item if recent prices are any indication. It's also an excellent, if rather ugly, camera though!
If the M8 was to fail would the same thing happen ... you would have to doubt it! Twenty five years from now, are certain digitals going to be collectable. The way technollogy is progressing there may not be the software etc available to support their continued use!
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Not yet -but it will
iml
Well-known
Without a digital M it was only a matter of time until Leica either downsized radically or disappeared, IMO.
Ian
Ian
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Has this Christmas brought me what I wished for?
devils-advocate
Member
It's still only a prediction, but I would say "yes" , to the extent that a viable product-line is sufficient to save the company. With the M8, Leica appears to have done two crucial things:
(i) they promised and delivered. Admittedly, the promised development time-line was agonizingly slow when first announced, but they met their commitment. This is crucial to customer-confidence in the turbulent times of digital (witness the Mamiya ZD fiasco).
(ii) they have remained remarkably true to the aesthetic of the M-family in the transition to digital capture. Since a huge dimension of the Leica mystique (or "brand" as it would now be termed) is the look/feel/sound/size of the M cameras, they will be able to leverage every once of loyalty to their platform.
That said, many companies with great, successful products go broke for other reasons, but it certainly looks as if Leica is doing the right things.
(i) they promised and delivered. Admittedly, the promised development time-line was agonizingly slow when first announced, but they met their commitment. This is crucial to customer-confidence in the turbulent times of digital (witness the Mamiya ZD fiasco).
(ii) they have remained remarkably true to the aesthetic of the M-family in the transition to digital capture. Since a huge dimension of the Leica mystique (or "brand" as it would now be termed) is the look/feel/sound/size of the M cameras, they will be able to leverage every once of loyalty to their platform.
That said, many companies with great, successful products go broke for other reasons, but it certainly looks as if Leica is doing the right things.
phototone
Well-known
I heard somewhere that the initial first "run" of M8 was presold out. That doesn't mean you can't acquire one, that means that the dealers committed to all bodies Leica built in its first run. I would guess, as small a company as Leica is, that all their products are built in "batches".
BillBingham2
Registered User
No, but the Bears will again!!!
B2 (;->
B2 (;->
boilerdoc2
Well-known
I agree with Sean - the M8 is going to save a great company. After the whirlwind subsides and my bank account recovers I will order a second body.
By the way, Sean, I hope you are ready to release that 'second' installment of the M8 evaluation. We're waiting with bated breath!
steve
By the way, Sean, I hope you are ready to release that 'second' installment of the M8 evaluation. We're waiting with bated breath!
steve
jlw
Rangefinder camera pedant
ferider said:
There's not much time left in 2006. Didn't we read in another thread that the initial production batch (for the first round of sales) was 2,000 cameras? If so, I'd guess they'll be able to sell out that batch on pre-orders and early-adopter sales.
The real test will be what happens after that.
rolleistef
Well-known
wow that was super fast answering. Sorry, I should have written "will the m8...etc".
If the M8 is reliable enough, I think it will be a great success. If not, I may be the same as for citroën and the Traction Avant (you know, the French ufo-car).
And anyway, it shows that Leica is not THAT expensive. A new M7-MP with a lens is actually cheaper than a lot of d-slr (say the 5D) and the M8 less expensive than a 1Ds Mk2 or a D2Xs, as most of the custommers already have lenses.
cheers
stéphane
If the M8 is reliable enough, I think it will be a great success. If not, I may be the same as for citroën and the Traction Avant (you know, the French ufo-car).
And anyway, it shows that Leica is not THAT expensive. A new M7-MP with a lens is actually cheaper than a lot of d-slr (say the 5D) and the M8 less expensive than a 1Ds Mk2 or a D2Xs, as most of the custommers already have lenses.
cheers
stéphane
washy21
Established
m8
m8
I think it will save Leica. That said, I also think that the majority of photographers will still make awesome images with a range of cameras that cost far less than the M8.
I love the look of the M8, and I fully expect it to be a quality product. I have an RD 1, so appreciate the rangefinder pros, but the price of this machine is just too much for me to jusify a purchase, and I suspect that whilst everyone knows about the leica niche brand position it would be nice if Leica could somehow present this or a similar camera at a price that would attract a vastly increased audience.
I hope Leica does pull through because the history of the camera and its pedigree is superb.
m8
I think it will save Leica. That said, I also think that the majority of photographers will still make awesome images with a range of cameras that cost far less than the M8.
I love the look of the M8, and I fully expect it to be a quality product. I have an RD 1, so appreciate the rangefinder pros, but the price of this machine is just too much for me to jusify a purchase, and I suspect that whilst everyone knows about the leica niche brand position it would be nice if Leica could somehow present this or a similar camera at a price that would attract a vastly increased audience.
I hope Leica does pull through because the history of the camera and its pedigree is superb.
grantray
Established
BillBingham2 said:
Actually, R lens owners will be able to use their lenses, via an adapter, on the D3. I learned this while at Photo Village yesterday. Knowing that, the D3 just got a lot cooler.
-grant
B&W Norway
Established
To soon to tell and it realy depends on more than the M8
AndyPiper
Established
The M8 was necessary to save Leica. Whether it is sufficient to save Leica we'll have to wait and see (by sufficient I don't mean the camera's actual specs and limitations, but just its existence as a reasonably competent digital RF in the marketplace).
We may never know precisely. Leica lumps all M-system sales together, so it won't necessarily be possible to look at 2005/2006/2007 sales figures and determine which part of any improvement is due specifically to M8 sales or additional M lenses sales DUE TO the M8 - and which part is due to a change in film camera sales. Unless Herr Dr. Spichtig chooses to reveal something in his annual report next June.
Plus, Leica may be "saved" as much by the middle market cameras (Digilux 3, D-Lux etc.) as by the M8 and DMR. At least financially.
Personally, I think what is far more important in saving Leica is the change in corporate culture that has been instilled by the new managers and owners. Of which the M8 and its development are but symptoms.
We may never know precisely. Leica lumps all M-system sales together, so it won't necessarily be possible to look at 2005/2006/2007 sales figures and determine which part of any improvement is due specifically to M8 sales or additional M lenses sales DUE TO the M8 - and which part is due to a change in film camera sales. Unless Herr Dr. Spichtig chooses to reveal something in his annual report next June.
Plus, Leica may be "saved" as much by the middle market cameras (Digilux 3, D-Lux etc.) as by the M8 and DMR. At least financially.
Personally, I think what is far more important in saving Leica is the change in corporate culture that has been instilled by the new managers and owners. Of which the M8 and its development are but symptoms.
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