Avotius
Some guy
Over here in Chinaville we are getting ready for a new photo project that will be in and out of the studio. This time what it going to be interesting though is we are going to be shooting most of the project with large format film, either 4x5 or 8x10. I have a Sinar Norma with both so that is what we will be using.
However I do not have the required support for such a setup. My usual Benro tripod and Velbon head seems strained with this 4x5 so I want to upgrade.
I have been looking around and it would seem the tripod that I want is the Manfrotto 057 carbon fiber which can hold 40 pounds, which I know is probably overkill for my setup but there is nothing wrong with overkill in buying a tripod in my mind because who knows what will come later.
I do not however know which head I should buy. I was looking at the Manfrotto 400 geared head, but am not sure if this is the right choice?
I would love your suggestions, even for tripod legs too if I am missing something. I think I would prefer geared adjustments but am always open to other options. I really dislike those hand tightening collars on tripod legs and prefer the flip lock type as I have stripped too many collars over the years.
I have used a Manfrotto 405 geared head on a Hassalblad H setup and that worked fine for that camera but a large format camera with lens and all those things seem to be around the max that head could take and that would not give any wiggle room and I don't think I feel comfortable with that?
However I do not have the required support for such a setup. My usual Benro tripod and Velbon head seems strained with this 4x5 so I want to upgrade.
I have been looking around and it would seem the tripod that I want is the Manfrotto 057 carbon fiber which can hold 40 pounds, which I know is probably overkill for my setup but there is nothing wrong with overkill in buying a tripod in my mind because who knows what will come later.
I do not however know which head I should buy. I was looking at the Manfrotto 400 geared head, but am not sure if this is the right choice?
I would love your suggestions, even for tripod legs too if I am missing something. I think I would prefer geared adjustments but am always open to other options. I really dislike those hand tightening collars on tripod legs and prefer the flip lock type as I have stripped too many collars over the years.
I have used a Manfrotto 405 geared head on a Hassalblad H setup and that worked fine for that camera but a large format camera with lens and all those things seem to be around the max that head could take and that would not give any wiggle room and I don't think I feel comfortable with that?
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
For light stuff I settled on Bogan 3662 long ago. It is solid on my Gitzo carbon fibre tripod. For larger stuff such as 4x5 I would only consider Arca Swiss Ball Head. Arca Swiss is solid, with positive controls easily handling micro movements.
Pioneer
Veteran
Mount it right to the tripod. Requires a bit more work to line things up but it is solid.
Either that or find a geared platform head.
Either that or find a geared platform head.
ChrisN
Striving
My Manfrotto 410 geared head works fine with an Ebony 4x5.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
When I want a strong and heavy ball head, I use my Fancier FT-6665H. These are made in China. Mine was very inexpensive. It comes with one quick-release plate which, although not Arca-Swiss compatible, is very good. I found mine on eBay a couple of years ago.
R
rpsawin
Guest
I use a Manfrotto 410 ball head with my Toyo 45AII. I find it to be a very stable platform.
Jerevan
Recycled User
If you can find the Sinar head that was designed for these cameras, go for that. I am using Slik DX700 legs with a Manfrotto 229 head for Sinar Normas (4x5 and a 5x7), but I think the legs might be too flimsy for an 8x10 (a Norma 8x10 is a dream camera, indeed). If I would do it again, I think I would go for a good ballhead. But, if you want to do exacting work (say architecture) then a three-way might be better.
DamenS
Well-known
I use a Gitzo 1570m low-profile magnesium head.
It will support up to 10kg, and the large plate size makes it ideal for Large Format cameras.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/170918-REG/Gitzo_G1570M_G1570_3_Way_Head.html
It will support up to 10kg, and the large plate size makes it ideal for Large Format cameras.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/170918-REG/Gitzo_G1570M_G1570_3_Way_Head.html
Avotius
Some guy
Will check out some of these heads, the selection here can be pretty bad sometimes and I can only buy online sight unseen.
I used to use a Horseman 45 FA (I think? The folder one...) and that was fine on a medium sized head but the Sinar Norma is huge and extremely heavy so that is why I was worried about my choice of head. The tripod legs seem to be the right ones to get though, the 057 looks like a good set. From what I see, the Sinar Norma with lens and stuff is around 8-9 kg depending on which back I have on it.
As you can see from this picture, the camera dwarfs my Velbon 263 ball head. Absolutely inappropriate for this monster.
I used to use a Horseman 45 FA (I think? The folder one...) and that was fine on a medium sized head but the Sinar Norma is huge and extremely heavy so that is why I was worried about my choice of head. The tripod legs seem to be the right ones to get though, the 057 looks like a good set. From what I see, the Sinar Norma with lens and stuff is around 8-9 kg depending on which back I have on it.
As you can see from this picture, the camera dwarfs my Velbon 263 ball head. Absolutely inappropriate for this monster.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
The most common configurations for that actually have a levelling head or bowl under whatever head you choose, to uncouple the task of levelling from panning. Being out of level position complicates working with movements to the point where you'd need a programmable calculator (and good mathematical skills) to set up the movements, so you would have to re-level the camera any time you pan if the head itself is not already in level at its base.
Once you are in level, a two-way head like the Sinar one will do, as the third axis on three-way heads is merely needed for levelling or sometimes as a quick landscape/portrait switch. And the latter won't do on large format cameras as that will tip over the tripod.
Jerevan
Recycled User
The Sinar Normas is are lightweights compared to the later F and P models... 
Sevo, good points on the levelling.
Sevo, good points on the levelling.
Avotius
Some guy
More looking around and it seems a Manfrotto MH057MO-RC4 might fit the bill. The Arca stuff is way way overpriced here in China, almost triple the cost of B&H. The RC4 plate looks like it might be able to do some job that I want but I wonder because it seems the plate has the screws on the side more and that means that it wont have the full of the rail's mounting plate on it. I also thought about this mounting directly to the tripod and later I may, however I may as well kill two birds with one stone and get a new good head for future digital work, and especially since I have been doing more and more 360x180 panoramics the last few years.
Sevo does have good points about the leveling plates, I have one for when doing panoramic photos, pretty handy.
Oh, and if the Norma is a lightweight compared to later F and P models.....then I guess you need a reinforced concrete obelisk for those.
Sevo does have good points about the leveling plates, I have one for when doing panoramic photos, pretty handy.
Oh, and if the Norma is a lightweight compared to later F and P models.....then I guess you need a reinforced concrete obelisk for those.
Nokton48
Veteran
I use four or five Sinar Norma pan/tilt heads on my 4x5/5x7/8x10 Sinar Normas.
I really wouldn't consider any other type of head, at least for my uses.
Sinar is the best. It was designed to become part of the camera.
The FOBA C40 is the original 8x10 Norma tripod. Heavy but highly usuable.
Mine shown below:
I really wouldn't consider any other type of head, at least for my uses.
Sinar is the best. It was designed to become part of the camera.
The FOBA C40 is the original 8x10 Norma tripod. Heavy but highly usuable.
Mine shown below:
Attachments
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
I'm using a Zone VI tripod with a Bogen 3047QR...more than enough to hold your 4x5 camera...
I have often thought of getting a metal tripod so I can place it in water if needed...not too comfy about putting a wood one in water...
I have often thought of getting a metal tripod so I can place it in water if needed...not too comfy about putting a wood one in water...
keytarjunkie
no longer addicted
Some advice from a fellow 4x5 and 8x10 shooter. I have a "lightweight" Benro carbon fiber tripod and Benro ballhead that I use for my DSLR, mamiya 7, and 4x5 no problem. 8x10 is so ridiculously larger, and I'm still using that tripod with a ballhead and I need something larger but I can't afford it. I think not using a head at all is good, as it removes another part of the setup that can break or be too strained. It allows you to always know when you're level, but you can adjust the legs a bit or rise/fall for perspective. A ballhead with such a large camera is really impractical. If you're going to get a head for 8x10, I think those three-way heads (as posted above) are the way to go.
csxcnj
Well-known
Manfrotto 410 works nicely and not a bank breaker.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
It would be a mistake not to use the Sinar Pan Tilt head, they should have been sold with every camera as they are designed to be part of it. It is the best designed piece in the entire Sinar system. Just get it, don't waste your time with anything else.
Scroll down, I wrote an article about my Normas: http://frankinstan.tumblr.com
Tripod: with 8x10 you want a tripod that weighs as much or more than the camera... Gitzo 5-series. With 4x5 a 3-series will work OK but bigger is always better. You can find old Gitzo Giantluxes for $200 with Miller video heads.. Sell the heads, keep the legs.
Of course asking for large format advice on this forum is like asking for Leica advice on Fred Miranda....
Scroll down, I wrote an article about my Normas: http://frankinstan.tumblr.com
Tripod: with 8x10 you want a tripod that weighs as much or more than the camera... Gitzo 5-series. With 4x5 a 3-series will work OK but bigger is always better. You can find old Gitzo Giantluxes for $200 with Miller video heads.. Sell the heads, keep the legs.
Of course asking for large format advice on this forum is like asking for Leica advice on Fred Miranda....
Avotius
Some guy
I went in search of this Sinar Pan Tilt head. Being here in China I figured that I might find one but it may be in iffy condition and a bit overpriced. I was half right. I found one! It was in pretty good condition, looked pretty solid, 48888 yuan or 8014 dollars. What a deal. I did find another one in user condition, only 6400 dollars, better.
peter_n
Veteran
Arca-Swiss heads and Gitzo tripods will be ridiculously expensive in China. The Benro tripods made in Guangdong go very cheaply in HK and maybe cheaper in the mainland and a used one would be even better. The C4470T is their sturdiest model and is a copy of the Gitzo systematic tripods; very well made and with a system architecture that will accept video bowls, leveling bases, geared center columns etc. in the tripod's spyder base.
Nokton48
Veteran
I have paid between 50US and 250US for Sinar Norma Pan/Tilt Heads. Even one that is dirty and very well used can be easily taken apart and cleaned. I use electronic contact cleaner, acetone, nitrile gloves, and alot of ventiliation, when I work on mine.
I also have the lightweight wooden Zone VI tripod. I have even used mine partially submerged in the Atlantic, also the Gulf of Mexico. I used to take my 8x10 Norma hiking for long distances with it, just slung the whole thing over my shoulder. Did rollup a beach towel, to add some padding and shoulder comfort. The whole thing was surprisingly well balanced. Also have a Manfrotto #3040 legs with #3047 Manfrotto three-way head. This works OK with 8x10 Norma. But I still prefer the Sinar Norma Pan/Tilt head
The size and weight of the 8x10 holders adds up quickly. I carry mine in a soft shoulder bag.
I also have the lightweight wooden Zone VI tripod. I have even used mine partially submerged in the Atlantic, also the Gulf of Mexico. I used to take my 8x10 Norma hiking for long distances with it, just slung the whole thing over my shoulder. Did rollup a beach towel, to add some padding and shoulder comfort. The whole thing was surprisingly well balanced. Also have a Manfrotto #3040 legs with #3047 Manfrotto three-way head. This works OK with 8x10 Norma. But I still prefer the Sinar Norma Pan/Tilt head
The size and weight of the 8x10 holders adds up quickly. I carry mine in a soft shoulder bag.