jonboy2312
Newbie
Hello there... I joined the forum in order to help an acquaintance of mine, he owns a Leica that has us really confused and he asked me to find some answers on the internet, so here I am.
So, what we're looking at is clearly and without any doubt, a Leica F. 1/500, slow speeds, viewfinders far apart etc.
What has us so confused, however, is the odd PC-sync socket. We're assuming it was a hack job.
But what the heck is it with the serial number? According to the s/n charts, it should be a 1930 Leica I. Well, it's obviously not. A member of another forum suggested that someone could have filled the last digit and repainted the camera. Odd, as there are no other layers of paint nor chrome finish underneath... and such a s/n "adjustment", if made for profit, can easily be blown just by looking at the s/n charts. I'm so confused my brain is boiling.
Can anyone please post a good macro of the top plate engravings on a similar black Leica for comparison? I'd like to compare the paint chippings around the engravings... maybe that will verify the theory...
Please help!
So, what we're looking at is clearly and without any doubt, a Leica F. 1/500, slow speeds, viewfinders far apart etc.
What has us so confused, however, is the odd PC-sync socket. We're assuming it was a hack job.
But what the heck is it with the serial number? According to the s/n charts, it should be a 1930 Leica I. Well, it's obviously not. A member of another forum suggested that someone could have filled the last digit and repainted the camera. Odd, as there are no other layers of paint nor chrome finish underneath... and such a s/n "adjustment", if made for profit, can easily be blown just by looking at the s/n charts. I'm so confused my brain is boiling.
Can anyone please post a good macro of the top plate engravings on a similar black Leica for comparison? I'd like to compare the paint chippings around the engravings... maybe that will verify the theory...
Please help!
jonboy2312
Newbie
Here's an extra shot of the engravings in high resolution. Any ideas? Anyone?
jesse1dog
Light Catcher
Hi - I'm no expert either but .....
I would guess that at some time or another the original camera was returned to Leitz for an upgrade. That explains the addition of the slow speed dial quite easily. Your 'PC' type socket is for simple flash sychronisation. This sort of modification was done in other places than the Leitz factory. The top plate was probably replaced on upgrade at the Leitz factory. They would get a new top plate from the 'stores spare parts bin' and engraved the number that was on the old top plate, then junked the old plate. I would be looking to see if the paint on the top platewas quite the same as the paint on the bottom plate - differences in wear and sometimes colour because of age difference. A difference would confirm things.
I suggest this because I have an upgraded IIf which has a IIc number and the chrome on the top and bottom plates don't quite match.
Well - that's my guess for what its worth. Now the 'experts' will tell us I have it all wrong!
I assume your friend has put some film through the camera and got some results - now that is where matters get really interesting!!
Whatever. Have great fun with the camera. Use it and love it.
I would guess that at some time or another the original camera was returned to Leitz for an upgrade. That explains the addition of the slow speed dial quite easily. Your 'PC' type socket is for simple flash sychronisation. This sort of modification was done in other places than the Leitz factory. The top plate was probably replaced on upgrade at the Leitz factory. They would get a new top plate from the 'stores spare parts bin' and engraved the number that was on the old top plate, then junked the old plate. I would be looking to see if the paint on the top platewas quite the same as the paint on the bottom plate - differences in wear and sometimes colour because of age difference. A difference would confirm things.
I suggest this because I have an upgraded IIf which has a IIc number and the chrome on the top and bottom plates don't quite match.
Well - that's my guess for what its worth. Now the 'experts' will tell us I have it all wrong!
I assume your friend has put some film through the camera and got some results - now that is where matters get really interesting!!
Whatever. Have great fun with the camera. Use it and love it.
jonboy2312
Newbie
Thanks for your reply! 
The finish DID seem marginally different, now that I think of it. We'll need to have a closer look once I visit him again.
Let's wait for the experts now
The finish DID seem marginally different, now that I think of it. We'll need to have a closer look once I visit him again.Let's wait for the experts now
VictorM.
Well-known
jonboy2312
Newbie
A person on a different forum came up with photos of two very similar examples, one IIIf in 40k s/n range, and one III s/n 4387... woohoo! Mystery solved
Thank you very much!
Thank you very much!
reagan
hey, they're only Zorkis
Looks like a fake to me. Have your friend just box up the whole dreadful mess, body, lens, case, whatever and ship it to me. I'll dispose of it properly. :angel:
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Okay, just kiddin'. Sweet lookin' Barnack, and looks like youi're on the track of solving the mystery. I know Leica did lots of upgrades, and I'm sure that was a wonderful service and a good thing to all involved... but it really played heck with the "track it by serial number" scenario, didn't it? I mean, especially (and "...who knew?") with the onslaught of so many fakes after all these years. It often takes some real diggin' around to discover "what is it/was it?"
History is sure interestin' stuff, huh! Good luck, jonboy2312, and welcome to RFF.
Xmas
Veteran
Lots of Leicias were upgraded e.g. such that if you are collector and want a IIc you will search long and hard, as they are almost all IIf, apart from the ones already on shelves, (e.g. the film did not run properly on IIc).
Flash and slow speed were a popular upgrade, they would probably have left the origional serial number, the flash PC connector appears anywhere on upgrades and probably would have been done a lot later than the slow speeds.
The lens looks ok the Ru copies have the iris between 2nd and the 3rd group Leitz between 1st and 2nd, Leitz lenses Ive looked at have had multiple baffles at the rear, if you want to check, the feds have a single baffle. The infinity lock should be available from a scrap lens if you want to search around.
I've not examined as early a leica, but the wheel on the rangefinder, the viewfinder front window, and diopter adjustement on the eyepiece means that someone has gone to a lot of trouble mechanically, none of the Ru Feds I've seen have had a wheel or diopter. I dont know if the shutter internals on the Leicias were exposed like on this pic, an expert will confirm, soon, no doubt. It looks ok to me.
I'd only buy a leicia in hand or from a rep dealer myself, the leitz build quality is easy to distinguish from Fed's or Zorki's, although parts will interchange, like the ring around the shutter release and take up spools.
Noel
Flash and slow speed were a popular upgrade, they would probably have left the origional serial number, the flash PC connector appears anywhere on upgrades and probably would have been done a lot later than the slow speeds.
The lens looks ok the Ru copies have the iris between 2nd and the 3rd group Leitz between 1st and 2nd, Leitz lenses Ive looked at have had multiple baffles at the rear, if you want to check, the feds have a single baffle. The infinity lock should be available from a scrap lens if you want to search around.
I've not examined as early a leica, but the wheel on the rangefinder, the viewfinder front window, and diopter adjustement on the eyepiece means that someone has gone to a lot of trouble mechanically, none of the Ru Feds I've seen have had a wheel or diopter. I dont know if the shutter internals on the Leicias were exposed like on this pic, an expert will confirm, soon, no doubt. It looks ok to me.
I'd only buy a leicia in hand or from a rep dealer myself, the leitz build quality is easy to distinguish from Fed's or Zorki's, although parts will interchange, like the ring around the shutter release and take up spools.
Noel
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reagan
hey, they're only Zorkis
jonboy, please know that my "Looks like a fake..." was a total joke. Tongue in cheek lango for "I'm jealous of [your friend's] Leica." IMO, it's a very nice looking example.
jonboy2312
Newbie
CVBLZ4 said:
Of course I know that, silly
You gave me quite the laugh I was a bit too busy to reply, though. I had three different shoots in one day...