Houston, we got a light leak (M2)

[Ronald_H]

The last two rolls from my M2 both show a light leak. It's on only one frame on each roll, but it's there. Light obviously comes from the front (can be seen quite well in color). I have a band of light about three quarters up from the bottom of the frame, running almost the full width. Don't have a scan at hand right now, I will add that later.

I inspected the shutter curtains thoroughly with a small torch, no pinholes to be seen. The only thing i can think of is light getting in while changing lenses. However, I changed lenses all the time, also outside. Never saw any problems. The last two rolls were shot inside in dim lighting!

The only thing I can think off is a not completly light tight seal between the shutter curtains and the film gate. My FED5c showed this too.

Howevr, I changed lenses quite a few times on both rolls, so why is only one frame affected?

Any thoughts?

 

[johannielscom]

Let Will van Manen in Zoetermeer have a look at it before you bring it along to India. Also, tell him you will be going there.

IMHO, considering your travel destination tinkering with this one is out of the question.There's a lot more sunlight in India, things will probably get worse once arriving over there. I remember Payasam shipping an M2 back and forth to Youxin Ye because of light leaks. He sold it in the end.

 

[Ronald_H]

I guess the M2 is out of the question for India then 🙁

When I bought this M2 two years ago Will CLA'd it. I have a lot of faith in him, but it might very well be he will also have trouble finding and solving such an intermittent problem. But no harm in contacting him.

 

[Sparrow]

That’s a typical M2 intermittent leak, I have one that very occasionally does the same thing, I just ignore it

 

[payasam]

I've had this problem with an M2 and with a IIIc, and there is no way it can be intermittent. Probably depends on the angle at which the camera body is held and, therefore, the angle at which light strikes it. If you change lenses often, it makes the camera unusable.

Johan, the M2 whose story you remember actually came - twice - with one bad curtain.

 

[Sparrow]

Very infrequently I get this, maybe one frame in 10 rolls, it’s so infrequent I’ve never been able to pin down which body it is.

I seldom change lenses so it’s nothing to do with that, my best guess is a poor fitting trap in the shutter gully

 

[Ljós]

Keeping track of camera bodies

Keeping track of camera bodies

Very infrequently I get this, maybe one frame in 10 rolls, it’s so infrequent I’ve never been able to pin down which body it is.

That's a moment when you realize Al Kaplan is no longer with us. If he were, he would have chimed in with something like this: "You can file little notches in the film gate, then blacken the metal with a Sharpie. Every body will produce negatives with its distinctive mark."
RIP, Al!

 

[Ronald_H]

Very infrequently I get this, maybe one frame in 10 rolls, it’s so infrequent I’ve never been able to pin down which body it is.

I seldom change lenses so it’s nothing to do with that, my best guess is a poor fitting trap in the shutter gully

That's exactly what I see. I also found another thread on RFF dealing with the same problem:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1216239

Even if I see it rarely, it will eventually ruin an important shot. I obviously use the Leica when I want the best possible 35mm quality. No matter how hot, cold, bright or dark it might be.

What puzzles me is that you see it even without changing lenses. When I saw it know for a fact that I was changing them. Not that it proves anything... I mailed my repair guy, maybe he knows. Without the oppurtunity to change lenses at a whim, wherever I want, I might just as well sell the M2...

 

[Sparrow]

That's a moment when you realize Al Kaplan is no longer with us. If he were, he would have chimed in with something like this: "You can file little notches in the film gate, then blacken the metal with a Sharpie. Every body will produce negatives with its distinctive mark."
RIP, Al!

he probably did, the last time this came up, and I probably would if it were more of a problem

 

[Sparrow]

That's exactly what I see. I also found another thread on RFF dealing with the same problem:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1216239

Even if I see it rarely, it will eventually ruin an important shot. I obviously use the Leica when I want the best possible 35mm quality. No matter how hot, cold, bright or dark it might be.

What puzzles me is that you see it even without changing lenses. When I saw it know for a fact that I was changing them. Not that it proves anything... I mailed my repair guy, maybe he knows. Without the oppurtunity to change lenses at a whim, wherever I want, I might just as well sell the M2...

In that case I would have the gully light traps replaced, one per roll is too often

I think they fit the plastic M6 type these days the M2’s are a textile material

 

[braver]

That's exactly what I see. I also found another thread on RFF dealing with the same problem:

Even if I see it rarely, it will eventually ruin an important shot. I obviously use the Leica when I want the best possible 35mm quality. No matter how hot, cold, bright or dark it might be.

What puzzles me is that you see it even without changing lenses. When I saw it know for a fact that I was changing them. Not that it proves anything... I mailed my repair guy, maybe he knows. Without the oppurtunity to change lenses at a whim, wherever I want, I might just as well sell the M2...

I had that same issue with my M6, figured it probably happened while changing lenses too. Sent it to Will for CLA and he replaced all the light seals and guards. He ensured me it had nothing to do with changing lenses, as basically it either got in through the back door or the black box you peer into through the lens mount started leaking (I don't remember). Will will be able to fix it no doubt.

 

[johannielscom]

I had that same issue with my M6, figured it probably happened while changing lenses too. Sent it to Will for CLA and he replaced all the light seals and guards. He ensured me it had nothing to do with changing lenses, as basically it either got in through the back door or the black box you peer into through the lens mount started leaking (I don't remember). Will will be able to fix it no doubt.

The answer to your problem might be in this post already.

If the light were to get in past the rear door, that would explain the sharp edge on one side of Stuarts shot, and the 'fade-out' on the other side. Any play on the rear door while it is closed?

If so, why not cut two narrow strips of tape (preferably real gaffers tape or duct tape, something that sticks very well) and put these on the sides of the rear doors 'door posts', which are covered by the closed rear door.

I actually like the filed-notches idea and might do this with my camera's.

 

[Sparrow]

The answer to your problem might be in this post already.

If the light were to get in past the rear door, that would explain the sharp edge on one side of Stuarts shot, and the 'fade-out' on the other side. Any play on the rear door while it is closed?

If so, why not cut two narrow strips of tape (preferably real gaffers tape or duct tape, something that sticks very well) and put these on the sides of the rear doors 'door posts', which are covered by the closed rear door.

I actually like the filed-notches idea and might do this with my camera's.

I always reasoned that it had to be from the front because the pressure plate is against the film so even if the door leaked light it couldn’t get to the back of the film

 

[Ronald_H]

If the light were to get in past the rear door, that would explain the sharp edge on one side of Stuarts shot, and the 'fade-out' on the other side. Any play on the rear door while it is closed?

quote]

Actually, there is some play... but if the light comes via the back, the stripes would be orange, not whiteish, right? Assuming C41 color film, not chromes. Mine definitely are white.

If Will says it btw, I believe him. Any idea what he charged? His work is excellent, but my pockets aren't overly deep at the moment... Leica's are supposed to last forever, but owning and using such an old camera starts to feel like owning a classic sports car... My Nikon FM is 20 years younger, but looks battered like hell and sees a lot more use. And it has been absolutely flawless. I think it will see India soon.

 

[payasam]

It's from the front.

"I might just as well sell the M2...". Not the solution, as you will probably buy another M body and that may develop the same problem.

 

[Philip Whiteman]

This problem seems to have beset M Leicas of all vintages and with some frequency – but few people know what causes it/what's the fix (it's those light seals).

As I've suggested before; we really ought to have a sticky on the forum dealing with faults like this – it would save an awful lot of misunderstanding/searching/duplicate effort!

 

[Ronald M]

New light seals around the shutter will cure it.

You can screw around with a lens cap for while, but eventualyy it must be repaired.

Both my M6 camera bought new in 198X when they first came out, developed the problem after 15 years and very little use. There is a mylar replacement which will not go bad.

My M3 also has been upgraded also.

 

[mooge]

these are the light seals, by the way.

this baffle is the one you see when you take the lens off... it's upside down on the photo.

maybe it's something with the shutter?...


good luck!
(sorry the pic is so bad...)

 

[Philip Whiteman]

Actually, that is a very good and very informative photo, dragunov. A picture is worth a thousand words and all that…

One thing that caused worse and ever more frequent fogging with my M6 was the lens mount working loose. This allowed light to get behind the box-like pressed metal baffle shown in dragunov's picture, and was cured easily enough by tightening the screws that secure the mounting ring to the body.

 

[spyder2000]

There are several seals that can be out of place or misplaced. My light leak occurred in all types of light and ONLY on the important frames. It was light leaking in from the rf window, down a shaft, and into the frame. It exposed film whether the shutter opened or not.

I spotted it and my tech fixed it.