How many RF's with parallax corrected brightline finders, and interchangeable lenses?

SimonPJ

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Given that the viewfinder is pretty much the defining part of an RF camera, and parallax corrected brightline finders are the highest evolution of the species, I was wondering how many RF's with parallax corrected brightline finders, and interchangeable lenses there have been?

To get the list started:

35mm
-- Leica M's
-- Canon 7
-- Nikon SP
-- CV Bessa's
-- Yashica YF
-- Minolta Super A (?)
-- XPan

MF
-- Mamiya 6 and 7
-- Fuji GL690

What else?

Simon.
 
Interchangeable lens 35's

Kodak Retina IIIS
Canon VI Series (etched lines)
Canon P (etched lines)
Nikon S3M (etched lines, very rare)
Leica CL
 
Konica Hexar RF, auto frameline selection and parallax compensation

Rollei 35RF, cosina based

Zeis Ikon RF, cosina based
 
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Hm, the Contax G has no framelines but is parallax corrected and shows the FoV of the lens as it is focused. So I don't think it qualfies 🙂
 
Brian Sweeney said:
Interchangeable lens 35's

Kodak Retina IIIS
Canon VI Series (etched lines)
Canon P (etched lines)
Nikon S3M (etched lines, very rare)
Leica CL

If we want to get pettifoggingly punctilious, I'd define the Canon and Nikon framelines as "reflective" rather than "etched." The Nikon S2, for example, has a simple etched line (non-parallax-compensating) that shows up as black; the reflected framelines in the Canons involve two reflecting surfaces and show up as white. It's a significant user distinction because the reflective framelines are easier to see but involve a more complex optical system (which means more likely to need cleaning after donkey's years.)

Als... Do the S3M's lines have parallax compensation? I didn't think they did.

Now, getting back to the original list, which -- since the focus is on the "most advanced" form of rangefinder optics -- I would argue should be restricted to interchangeable-lens cameras with projected parallax-compensating framelines, let's not forget:

-- Red Flag 20 [speaking of rare!]
-- Kiev 5
-- Yasuhara T981? (I know it had a projected frameline, but not whether it's parallax-compensated.)
-- Epson R-D 1

To split hairs further, we might argue that the "most advanced" viewfinders incorporate not only multiple framelines, but multiple selectable framelines, i.e., use a moving mask over the frameline optics so you don't have to look at all of the framelines at once. That limitation would bump out the Kiev (since even the later models with the 85mm frameline show both 50 and 85 all the time) and the Yasuhara (which only has a 50mm frameline.)
 
> Als... Do the S3M's lines have parallax compensation? I didn't think they did.

As per the Rotoloni "Nikon Rangefinder", they do. I have not looked through an S3M, so I will take his word for it. The full-frame S3 and S4 do not, have simple marks for parallax.
 
J.Ed said:
Argus Model 21 Markfinder - arguably the first 35mm with a brightline finder, was designed to have interchangeable lenses but only a 50mm ever produced.

I thought the 21 had a projected-frame viewfinder, but no rangefinder -- correct?

Also, we forgot the Agfa Ambi Silette!

And for you larger-format shooters, if you're not picky about the distinction between reflected and projected framelines or parallax compensation, there's always the Linhof Technika 70... right?
 
Mohan said:
The leica IIIG also has paralax corrected brightlines.

Right, although not combined with the rangefinder.

Meanwhile, if we look at combined rangefinder/viewfinder and projected framelines but skip the requirement for parallax compensation, we could add the Steinheil Casca II.
 
Naturally, I have the really oddball entry. The Anscomark M (aka Ricoh 999) with
frame lines for 35, 50 and 100mm, parallax-corrected. There was a model from Aires, the designation escapes me, but I believe its viewfinder has a similar set-up.

Fred
 
The GOMZ Leningrad takes LTM lenses, has 50, 85, and 135mm framelines, and a viewfinder that shifts horizontally relative to a fixed rangefinder patch as you focus. I guess this would be partly corrected for parallax.
 
Okay, let's tighten up the officiating in this game a bit.

I hereby posit that the most advanced type of optical rangefinder camera yet produced has the following features:

  • Rangefinder combined with viewfinder
  • Rangefinder coupled to interchangeable lenses
  • Projected, parallax-compensating selectable framelines for multiple lenses

Herewith the somewhat exclusive list of cameras having these features:

  • Leica M series
  • Leica CL, Leitz/Minolta CL and Minolta CL
  • Minolta CLE
  • Konica Hexar RF
  • Cosina-Voigtlander Bessa R, R2, R2a, R3a and variants (incl. Rollei etc.)
  • Epson R-D 1
  • Zeiss Ikon
  • Canon 7 series
  • Nikon SP
  • Red Flag 20
  • Mamiya 6
  • Mamiya 7
  • Fujica 690 -- these do have parallax compensation, don't they?
  • Minolta Super A -- ditto?
  • Agfa Ambi Silette -- ditto?
  • Yashica YF
  • Anscomark 990 plus suspected Aires parent
  • (later addition) Koni-Omega/Rapid Omega family

The Yasuhara T981 doesn't make the cut because it has only a 50mm frameline. The Kiev 5 doesn't make the cut because its framelines aren't selectable. The Steinheil Casca II doesn't have parallax compensation. The Leningrad misses the list because its finder frames are etched (although extremely clear) and not selectable. I had to delete the Canon 110ED when I remembered that its lens wasn't interchangeable (add-on converters don't count in this game.)

Also, I'll concede that the Red Flag hardly counts as a "production" camera, and that if you include it you might as well include the near-mythical Minolta Sky and whatever that FSU prototype in the late '50s was called. But it's surprising how few cameras in this category have been made, and their origins.

Anyone got another?

It could further be argued that the really most advanced RFs also have a collimated (sharp-edged) rangefinder patch, and if we impose that restriction, the list becomes:

  • Leica M series
  • Leica CL and siblings
  • Minolta CLE
  • Red Flag 20
  • Konica Hexar RF
  • Cosina-Voigtlander R family
  • Epson R-D 1 (admittedly a Cosina relative)
  • Zeiss Ikon
  • Do the Mamiya 6 and 7 have collimated patches?

And that's all (unless someone can think of others.) A rather exclusive list!
 
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jlw said:
Okay, let's tighten up the officiating in this game a bit.

I hereby posit that the most advanced type of optical rangefinder camera yet produced has the following features:

  • Rangefinder combined with viewfinder
  • Rangefinder coupled to interchangeable lenses
  • Projected, parallax-compensating selectable framelines for multiple lenses

Herewith the somewhat exclusive list of cameras having these features:

Wonderful jlw! The definitive pecking order.
 
I know others here in the forum have one and will chime in, but let me be the first: The Mamiya Universal and Super Press 23. Selectable framelines for 100mm (normal), 150mm and 250mm. Those frame lines are parallax compensating, that is, the frame lines move in and down the closer you are focusing. I don't remember positively, but I think the accessory viewfinders for the 65mm and 50mm may also compensate. I don't have one in front of me and haven't used one in a long time so I don't remember. The 65mm and 50mm lenses do use the rangefinder for focusing, but of course, the builtin viewfinder won't work for them, and you must use the accessory viewfinders for composing. Add interchanging backs and you have a nice system.

This is of course a MF camera, not a 35, but allowed by the originator of the thread where he mentions two MF cameras.

Cheers.
 
the Koni-Omega series fits the original post, but is nudged out of the jlw's hot list on the selectable framlines. Bright, parallax-corrected projected framelines that move freakishly as you focus, but all at once for the 90mm, 135 and 180 lenses.

But the great little 60mm is left out, and has an external finder with lines to correct for parallax error at closer than 6 feet. I can never seem to frame things tight and well at close distances with it.

*edit* oops, it was mentioned. And this is a huge thread bump!
 
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