spiderfrank
just a dreamer
Hi guys, I've just bought a beautiful Bessa I with Color-Skopar 105/3.5
http://www.newoldcamera.com/Scheda....Bt4qhlqKk540e8X1W1Gts4IIZdAG6nS7bpWstUi+NkFKv
a friend of mine got it for me from the shop (well known for thier professionality), and told me the camera is in amazingly "good shape": the lens is clear and clean, the shutter works like a watch, the bellows are perfect, everything "sounds good", and I'm sure it's all right with the camera, this is just to say that the camera is working like new.
Now the question: I read a lot of people in the net speaking about problems with the folding cameras (film flatness, lens/film parallelism, light leakage, poor quality lenses, and so on...), but - assuming a PERFECT camera - how much truth is there in all these speculations?
ok, I know I'll have the answer with my first roll out of the camera, but I would like to know what should I pretend from this perfectly cla'd old beauty
Franco
http://www.newoldcamera.com/Scheda....Bt4qhlqKk540e8X1W1Gts4IIZdAG6nS7bpWstUi+NkFKv
a friend of mine got it for me from the shop (well known for thier professionality), and told me the camera is in amazingly "good shape": the lens is clear and clean, the shutter works like a watch, the bellows are perfect, everything "sounds good", and I'm sure it's all right with the camera, this is just to say that the camera is working like new.
Now the question: I read a lot of people in the net speaking about problems with the folding cameras (film flatness, lens/film parallelism, light leakage, poor quality lenses, and so on...), but - assuming a PERFECT camera - how much truth is there in all these speculations?
ok, I know I'll have the answer with my first roll out of the camera, but I would like to know what should I pretend from this perfectly cla'd old beauty
Franco
antonandreas
Established
Wide open it will most likely be soft because the lens design is like a Tessar.
What is lens quality to you? I like the look of old lenses because they have a distinct feel to them. I have a color-skopar on my Perkeo and I really like the gentle tones it gives with color film.
If you are worried about film flatness, just make sure to advance the film before you take a picture. Letting advanced film sit makes it slack after a while on one of these cameras.
Top shutter speeds will still probably be slightly inaccurate.
What is lens quality to you? I like the look of old lenses because they have a distinct feel to them. I have a color-skopar on my Perkeo and I really like the gentle tones it gives with color film.
If you are worried about film flatness, just make sure to advance the film before you take a picture. Letting advanced film sit makes it slack after a while on one of these cameras.
Top shutter speeds will still probably be slightly inaccurate.
Mablo
Well-known
Congrats! It's a nice camera and seemingly in great condition. Folders can be surprisingly airtight and unfolding the bellows can at least in theory create a slight suck on the film plane. This could be one reason why some people complain about film flatness. Remember to wind a new frame as the last thing before taking a shot and the film plane is as flat as it can be.
kuzano
Veteran
Very good camera's
Very good camera's
A Bessa I with a Color Skopar is a great and unusual find. They are sturdy and unless it's really been knocked around, it should be good on both parallelism and film flatness.
It tends to have a very firm front standard, even moreso than the Bessa II, since the Bessa II has the moving front standard due to the coupled rangefinder. The front standard on the Bessa I locks tightly into place when you pop the legs into place.
If you really lucked out, it will come with the mask to convert it to 6X4.5. There are two ruby windows on the back and an interesting mechanism for using both windows for 645, or one for 6X9. Most times the mask has disappeared since it's detached from the camera when shooting 6X9. The mask has special tabs that control the dual window blind, so not easy to create from scratch.
Personally, I think the Color Skopar equipped Bessa I is a top notch folder.
Very good camera's
A Bessa I with a Color Skopar is a great and unusual find. They are sturdy and unless it's really been knocked around, it should be good on both parallelism and film flatness.
It tends to have a very firm front standard, even moreso than the Bessa II, since the Bessa II has the moving front standard due to the coupled rangefinder. The front standard on the Bessa I locks tightly into place when you pop the legs into place.
If you really lucked out, it will come with the mask to convert it to 6X4.5. There are two ruby windows on the back and an interesting mechanism for using both windows for 645, or one for 6X9. Most times the mask has disappeared since it's detached from the camera when shooting 6X9. The mask has special tabs that control the dual window blind, so not easy to create from scratch.
Personally, I think the Color Skopar equipped Bessa I is a top notch folder.
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spiderfrank
just a dreamer
The camera comes with the mask for 6x4.5, yes. I'll be very carefull to not be "the one who lost it" ;-)
I like the "signature" of the Color-Skopar on my Vito II, so if the rendition of the Bessa's lens is the similar, I'm happy.
About film flatness: I've seen there are little bumps on the border of the "film window" in the camera, just where the film slip. It's a feature of the postwar Bessas, not present in the prewar models (am I right?): could it be a trick to avoid the suck when opening the bellows ? It should let the air pass from the rear to the front of the film.
Generally speaking, could be the film flatness problem generated by moving the bellows with the film sit? If I wind the film after the shot (like I'm used), I'll probably fold the camera and put it away 'til te next shot. Then, when I unfold it to shoot... The film pop!
And, last but not least, I often read of blur borders as a film unflatness conseguence: shouldn't be the blur in the centre ?
I like the "signature" of the Color-Skopar on my Vito II, so if the rendition of the Bessa's lens is the similar, I'm happy.
About film flatness: I've seen there are little bumps on the border of the "film window" in the camera, just where the film slip. It's a feature of the postwar Bessas, not present in the prewar models (am I right?): could it be a trick to avoid the suck when opening the bellows ? It should let the air pass from the rear to the front of the film.
Generally speaking, could be the film flatness problem generated by moving the bellows with the film sit? If I wind the film after the shot (like I'm used), I'll probably fold the camera and put it away 'til te next shot. Then, when I unfold it to shoot... The film pop!
And, last but not least, I often read of blur borders as a film unflatness conseguence: shouldn't be the blur in the centre ?
spiderfrank
just a dreamer
4 days, no reply? Come on...
spiderfrank
just a dreamer
thank you for your long and detailed explanation, Chippy! Sorry for my bad English:
with "moving the bellows with the film sit" I meant "opening the bellows after having advanced the film".
I'm a newby in the 6x9 word (I'll receive my "new" camera tomorrow) and I'm reading a lot of scary tales about these old ladies. I'm sure my doubts will be blown away when I'll can shoot with the camera, people often speaks without really know how the thing are
ps: I'm italian but I have some relatives in Sydney (I visited them last time in 2007), I like Australia!
with "moving the bellows with the film sit" I meant "opening the bellows after having advanced the film".
I'm a newby in the 6x9 word (I'll receive my "new" camera tomorrow) and I'm reading a lot of scary tales about these old ladies. I'm sure my doubts will be blown away when I'll can shoot with the camera, people often speaks without really know how the thing are
ps: I'm italian but I have some relatives in Sydney (I visited them last time in 2007), I like Australia!
kuzano
Veteran
Chippy very right on on many points.....
Chippy very right on on many points.....
Perhaps the best one is to NOT wind on the film after shooting if you are closing the camera. Wait to wind on until the camera is open. BUT develop this as a habit.... particularly on the Bessa...
There is no film count on the Bessa I, so you have to have a specific pattern to your procedures, meaning, whenever you open the camera, you wind on, set your focus, set aperture and set the shutter. Then, never wind on after your last shot before closing the camera. A short cheat sheet on the back of the camera helps until the pattern is set in your mind.
If you don't adopt a specific process, it's really easy to double expose a frame, or skip a frame. Close the camera on an exposed frame, and leave the shutter uncocked to keep spring tension off the shutter mechanism.
That solves the film flatness problem, and, in fact, I believe I agree on the "wives tale" or "arm chair quarterback" notions of film flatness. After all, these were the cameras of the day for many years and the distinction between a consumer grade camera and a Professional model were primarly in the lenses (number of elements) and the shutters used.
The two areas of real concern are bellows and self timers on Prontor shutters.
Agfa had lousy bellows material
And NEVER use the self timer on an old Prontor unless you want to send the shutter in for CLA or repair. Just don't do it.
Re: Voigtlander... I've quite a few Bessa, Bessa II and Perkeo models and never experienced a bad bellows. I've always sought out the Color Skopar on both of those models, but have also gotten some very good images with Vaskar and Braunschweig lenses. I even had a Helomar (not Heliar) on a Bessa RF that delivered decent images.
Sometimes, I think if I were smart, I would abandon GAS and just shoot old Voigtlander folders.
Chippy very right on on many points.....
Perhaps the best one is to NOT wind on the film after shooting if you are closing the camera. Wait to wind on until the camera is open. BUT develop this as a habit.... particularly on the Bessa...
There is no film count on the Bessa I, so you have to have a specific pattern to your procedures, meaning, whenever you open the camera, you wind on, set your focus, set aperture and set the shutter. Then, never wind on after your last shot before closing the camera. A short cheat sheet on the back of the camera helps until the pattern is set in your mind.
If you don't adopt a specific process, it's really easy to double expose a frame, or skip a frame. Close the camera on an exposed frame, and leave the shutter uncocked to keep spring tension off the shutter mechanism.
That solves the film flatness problem, and, in fact, I believe I agree on the "wives tale" or "arm chair quarterback" notions of film flatness. After all, these were the cameras of the day for many years and the distinction between a consumer grade camera and a Professional model were primarly in the lenses (number of elements) and the shutters used.
The two areas of real concern are bellows and self timers on Prontor shutters.
Agfa had lousy bellows material
And NEVER use the self timer on an old Prontor unless you want to send the shutter in for CLA or repair. Just don't do it.
Re: Voigtlander... I've quite a few Bessa, Bessa II and Perkeo models and never experienced a bad bellows. I've always sought out the Color Skopar on both of those models, but have also gotten some very good images with Vaskar and Braunschweig lenses. I even had a Helomar (not Heliar) on a Bessa RF that delivered decent images.
Sometimes, I think if I were smart, I would abandon GAS and just shoot old Voigtlander folders.
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oftheherd
Veteran
I too am inclined to think there is more attention paid to film flatness on most folders than needs to be. I suspect there would be more of a problem with lens standards being parallel and that may have been mistaken for a film flatness problem. And the lens not being parallel isn't so often a problem as some old wive's tales imply either. At least not in my experience. Nor is film flatness so often a problem if you wind on and leave the film set a while in my experience. Not saying the above advice isn't good mind you.
I also agree folders don't get as much use as they deserve; even from me. And not only Voigtlanders.
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
Had a bessa with a light leak, so check the back door carefully, you might have to change the fillings.
Further, a 105mm lens on a 6x9 camera seems hard to focus - therefore I only bought the ones with rangefinder coupling. I had two bessas with coupled rangefinder, the famous black I and the 1951 II model. Both where hard to handle handheld, so most of the time I used these cameras only on tripods. Btw both had the Heliar lenses: on this format you will clearly see differences when using different quality lenses any case when using lenses wide open.
Further, a 105mm lens on a 6x9 camera seems hard to focus - therefore I only bought the ones with rangefinder coupling. I had two bessas with coupled rangefinder, the famous black I and the 1951 II model. Both where hard to handle handheld, so most of the time I used these cameras only on tripods. Btw both had the Heliar lenses: on this format you will clearly see differences when using different quality lenses any case when using lenses wide open.
spiderfrank
just a dreamer
Thank you all, tomorrow is the "day 0" of my life with a 6x9 camera ;-)
Kuzano, you say: "NEVER use the self timer on an old Prontor unless you want to send the shutter in for CLA or repair. Just don't do it."
The camera is just been fully revisioned and it has a one year warranty, so I'm not worried about this: if there must be a failure, I prefer it's during this year ;-)
Kuzano, you say: "NEVER use the self timer on an old Prontor unless you want to send the shutter in for CLA or repair. Just don't do it."
The camera is just been fully revisioned and it has a one year warranty, so I'm not worried about this: if there must be a failure, I prefer it's during this year ;-)
RichL
Well-known
One of the nice things about 6x9 is that it is a great snap shooter.
If, like me you like the minimalist approach then a piece of glass, a piece of paper, a red bulb and a couple of chemicals will do a perfect job of making album ready pictures in your kitchen. If you really like a print the negative can be sent out for a 5x7 or 8x10 with barely a loss of detail.
However you do it have fun and let is see some of the results.
If, like me you like the minimalist approach then a piece of glass, a piece of paper, a red bulb and a couple of chemicals will do a perfect job of making album ready pictures in your kitchen. If you really like a print the negative can be sent out for a 5x7 or 8x10 with barely a loss of detail.
However you do it have fun and let is see some of the results.
pagpow
Well-known
Buona fortuna, Franco. Goditi la macchina.
Giorgio
Giorgio
spiderfrank
just a dreamer
Thank you, Giorgio, yesterday i finally had the camera and tested it with a roll of HP5+ (exposed at 800 iso).
I'm happy for the results
I'm happy for the results
spiderfrank
just a dreamer
kuzano
Veteran
My apologies....
My apologies....
I should have made allowances for a shutter that may have been serviced already.
My rule comes from "stuffing" enough old prontors by using the self timer to learn my lesson. Surely, if your Prontor has been serviced.... use it... and keep using it to keep it from gumming up.
My apologies....
I should have made allowances for a shutter that may have been serviced already.
My rule comes from "stuffing" enough old prontors by using the self timer to learn my lesson. Surely, if your Prontor has been serviced.... use it... and keep using it to keep it from gumming up.
JPD
Retina and Rollei user
Nice results.
I bought a Bessa I a couple of years ago, and it was a very nice camera. I found the Color-Skopar to be on par with the Agfa Solinar and Zeiss Jena Tessar. I sold the Bessa and Agfa Record II (with new bellows) and kept my Ercona II and E-Bessa (with Heliar) because I felt I had too many 6x9 folders, not because of quality problems.
I always wind the film after each shot. Never had any problems with that. If you are afraid that the bellows might suck in the film, just open it slowly.
I bought a Bessa I a couple of years ago, and it was a very nice camera. I found the Color-Skopar to be on par with the Agfa Solinar and Zeiss Jena Tessar. I sold the Bessa and Agfa Record II (with new bellows) and kept my Ercona II and E-Bessa (with Heliar) because I felt I had too many 6x9 folders, not because of quality problems.
I always wind the film after each shot. Never had any problems with that. If you are afraid that the bellows might suck in the film, just open it slowly.