wgerrard
Veteran
I need advice in shooting in a location characterized by bright harsh sunlight, water, white boats, white frame and/or modern buildings and dark brick buildings. Using b&w or color negative film.
I occasionally visit Wilmington, NC. I find myself shooting soon after noon along the city's river walk. That's a stretch along the Cape Fear River, which is probably about one-half mile wide there. The sun is usually very bright, harsh, and the sky is almost entirely cloudless. (Wilmington is just about at the same latitude as Las Vegas.) The water is dark. The ships and boats docked along the river are almost always bright white. The modern buildings along the river are painted white, while older buildings are aged, dark brick. The river runs along a north-south axis, so river-side buildings, etc. are in deep shade in the morning and in harsh sun in the afternoon.
I have problems with exposure and contrast. I can't seem to hit a happy medium. If I wait until late afternoon and then shoot to the east, with the sun behind me, I'm OK. Otherwise, not so much.
I occasionally visit Wilmington, NC. I find myself shooting soon after noon along the city's river walk. That's a stretch along the Cape Fear River, which is probably about one-half mile wide there. The sun is usually very bright, harsh, and the sky is almost entirely cloudless. (Wilmington is just about at the same latitude as Las Vegas.) The water is dark. The ships and boats docked along the river are almost always bright white. The modern buildings along the river are painted white, while older buildings are aged, dark brick. The river runs along a north-south axis, so river-side buildings, etc. are in deep shade in the morning and in harsh sun in the afternoon.
I have problems with exposure and contrast. I can't seem to hit a happy medium. If I wait until late afternoon and then shoot to the east, with the sun behind me, I'm OK. Otherwise, not so much.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
HP5+ pulled to 50 will easily cover this range of contrast.
Microdol-X 1:1 per the Massive Development Chart.
Microdol-X 1:1 per the Massive Development Chart.
ChrisN
Striving
Three stops - wow! Would you have any examples to show?
Steve Karr
Film tank shaker
Hey,
Well if you do this often there is a trick we use in the motion world. UltraCon filters. Tiffen makes 'em and if you are at RFF you will need a small size so they are affordable. They flash the shadows. Before you make a face, the look is stunning. You see it all the time in filM & HI end TV.
That's what I would do ... and maybe pull 1 stop.
Steve
Well if you do this often there is a trick we use in the motion world. UltraCon filters. Tiffen makes 'em and if you are at RFF you will need a small size so they are affordable. They flash the shadows. Before you make a face, the look is stunning. You see it all the time in filM & HI end TV.
That's what I would do ... and maybe pull 1 stop.
Steve
Bob Michaels
nobody special
I find it fairly simply using negative film with normal processing once I learned to ignore the light meter and use my brain, sunny 16, and estimate zones. Below is an example where I knew Captain Ford's black face in the shadows needed 2+ steps more than sunny 16 but the white shrimp boats in the background needed 2+ steps less. Well within the tonal range of HP5 in Rodinal. f8 @ 1/500th (one over sunny 16) got everything on the neg. The rest was post processing. I believe there was no singular meter reading; incident, reflective or spot that would not have either blown out the white shrimp boats in the background or blocked up the shadows in his face. But a minimal amount of brain power worked fine with normal processing.
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The usual advice is to rate the b&w film slower than box speed [as above] and underdevelop. Also, yellow filters are suggested in many postings for bright, harsh light. Or, use a chromogenic b&w film, e.g. Kodak BW400CN [it has a huge range of brightness tolerance] or Ilford XP2 Super [range: less so, I believe]. Colour: can't give advice.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
I second the recommendation to use C41 b/w films. These films are so flat they seemed to have been made for harsh lighting.
wgerrard
Veteran
Thanks for the advice. I've been dropping down one or two stops and cutting back on development time a bit, so next time I'll be less timid.
Turtle
Veteran
No problem. Firstly use a film known for manageable highlights and then a developer known for the same. Find a way of getting your metering right for the shadow values with the mono film (grey card/incident reading/spot meter/compensation from experience) and you will be fine. Combinations I would recommend would be HP5+ and dilute Xtol (1+2/1+3) with three agitations per minute, or with pyrocat HD.
If you are not using materials you are familiar with you will need to do some testing before you go, but I have no hesitation shooting straight into the setting/rising sun with most B&W material as long as I know I have given ample exposure and that I can give modest development with only modest agitation.
I suspect that in the earlier post sepiareverb means to set the TTL meter at 50 shooting towards bright water and white boats (which is like adding +2-3 stops compensation) rather than rate it at 50 and use a spot meter for shadows as this would result in massive overexposure.
If you are not using materials you are familiar with you will need to do some testing before you go, but I have no hesitation shooting straight into the setting/rising sun with most B&W material as long as I know I have given ample exposure and that I can give modest development with only modest agitation.
I suspect that in the earlier post sepiareverb means to set the TTL meter at 50 shooting towards bright water and white boats (which is like adding +2-3 stops compensation) rather than rate it at 50 and use a spot meter for shadows as this would result in massive overexposure.
Merkin
For the Weekend
alternately, you could try a graduated neutral density filter.
Turtle
Veteran
That will help for bright skies but not for white boats below the horizon or bright reflections off the water, white clad sailing types etc. Mono film can handle bright skies with ease with correct development and some burning in (assuming you have a darkroom)
bmattock
Veteran
For color print film, I would suppose Kodak Portra 160 NC would do. Good range, low contrast, designed for high-contrast situations (weddings).
Whether using B&W film, color print, or digital, I'd use a spot-meter and take a reading of the darkest part of the scene and the lightest point of the scene and make sure my exposure was within those two extremes, if the latitude of the sensor / film permitted it. If it did not, I'd use my noggin to decide where I wished to lose detail, in the shadows or the highlights or both and how much.
I have read that diffusion filters lower contrast and can be used in such situations, but I have not tried this and so cannot recommend it. The book "Professional Filter Techniques for Digital Photographers," by Stan Sholik, also recommends the use of the Tiffin Ultra-Contrast filter in such situations, but I do not have that filter and have therefore never used it.
Whether using B&W film, color print, or digital, I'd use a spot-meter and take a reading of the darkest part of the scene and the lightest point of the scene and make sure my exposure was within those two extremes, if the latitude of the sensor / film permitted it. If it did not, I'd use my noggin to decide where I wished to lose detail, in the shadows or the highlights or both and how much.
I have read that diffusion filters lower contrast and can be used in such situations, but I have not tried this and so cannot recommend it. The book "Professional Filter Techniques for Digital Photographers," by Stan Sholik, also recommends the use of the Tiffin Ultra-Contrast filter in such situations, but I do not have that filter and have therefore never used it.
oftheherd
Veteran
I find it fairly simply using negative film with normal processing once I learned to ignore the light meter and use my brain, sunny 16, and estimate zones. Below is an example where I knew Captain Ford's black face in the shadows needed 2+ steps more than sunny 16 but the white shrimp boats in the background needed 2+ steps less. Well within the tonal range of HP5 in Rodinal. f8 @ 1/500th (one over sunny 16) got everything on the neg. The rest was post processing. I believe there was no singular meter reading; incident, reflective or spot that would not have either blown out the white shrimp boats in the background or blocked up the shadows in his face. But a minimal amount of brain power worked fine with normal processing.
Well done! AA would be proud. Even the water came out well.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
HP5+ @ ISO 50 in Microdol-X 1:1:
This is one from a big group of woods images. Detail throughout in the prints- from the sunlit leaves, clouds in the sky and into the bark.
This is one from a big group of woods images. Detail throughout in the prints- from the sunlit leaves, clouds in the sky and into the bark.
wgerrard
Veteran
HP5 has been mentioned several times. I might give it a try next time.
The path of least resistance is to avoid shooting at noon and early afternoon and wait until late afternoon and early evening, if and when that's practical for me.
The path of least resistance is to avoid shooting at noon and early afternoon and wait until late afternoon and early evening, if and when that's practical for me.
beultchri
Newbie
Hi
Hi
I am glad to find your site - now I know what a good one looks like.
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Very good topic to share with us. Great info.
Hi
I am glad to find your site - now I know what a good one looks like.
wow!! itz an amazing job!!
Very good topic to share with us. Great info.