How you select your gear between Nikon and Leica?

[DNN]

Hi, I have Leica Ms. I have been dreaming of Nikon RF. The reason I started with Leica is due to variations of the lenses easily available for "me."

Like vehicles (which I am more familiar with), each has unique characteristics. We cannot tell which is superior easily unless one of two is very bad. So I appreciate if those who own both Nikon RF and Leica RF give me comments on which characteristics of Nikon you love more than Leica and vice versa. In addition, I would like to hear how you decide which gears you bring with you for photo shooting in a particular situation/envirionment?

Thanks in advance. I guess posts relevant to my question have already appeared many times but search function does not help me very much. Somebody could kindly give me a pointer that would be also very much appreciated.

 

[NIKON KIU]

It's like asking which is better, a Mercedes or a Lexus!

Aside from the better RF patch on the Leica, the Nikon is more reliable and requires less maintenance.

These days, the Nikon re-issues are much better priced than their Leica counterparts. Example, a Nikon S3 2000 with the lens is priced under $2000, Nikon SP limited with 35mm lens priced around $4000.
Leica MP without lens is priced around $4000 and M7 with 50mm f2.0 lens is priced at $4795 (ouch). Even the chrome M7 body is priced at $3695

All Leica prices from B&H Photovideo.

Kiu

 

[DNN]

It's like asking which is better, a Mercedes or a Lexus!...

Well, that is not my intention because both are good. I was wondering if people have some specific feature which they like better in Nikon than Leica.

No my newbie question (I never touched Nikon S*) are
(1) do you usually use the unique focusing dial on the top (you know what I mean, right?) of the body?
(2) do you think the position of the shutter button more comfortable in Nikon?

I have very small hands (accordingly, short fingers). Though they look cute like baby's hands, they might be a little disadvantage in using cameras 😛
My baby hands may limit comfortable control of Nikon S*. This is my concern.

By the way, I never have a chance to drive a Mercedes. I will not be even allowed to test drive...😱

 

[dexdog]

Well, that is not my intention because both are good. I was wondering if people have some specific feature which they like better in Nikon than Leica.

No my newbie question (I never touched Nikon S*) are

(1) do you usually use the unique focusing dial on the top (you know what I mean, right?) of the body?


(2) do you think the position of the shutter button more comfortable in Nikon?

I have very small hands (accordingly, short fingers). Though they look cute like baby's hands, they might be a little disadvantage in using cameras 😛
My baby hands may limit comfortable control of Nikon S*. This is my concern.

By the way, I never have a chance to drive a Mercedes. I will not be even allowed to test drive...😱

The focusing wheel is useful for the normal 50mm lenses, but not recommended for other lenses, especially the longer focal length ones. You can sometimes use the wheel for 35m lenses, but only if the focus ring turns very easily.

The shutter release location is my only complaint about my Nikon SP- totally in the wrong location, i.e., about 1/2 inch to far to the rear of the body. Very annoying if you use a variety of different cameras, like I do.

 

[furcafe]

(1) I only occasionally use the focus wheel on a Nikon or Contax RF, e.g., when I'm holding an umbrella or something w/my left hand. So it's not a feature I use very often, but it also doesn't get the way of anything (I don't find it annoying to have the infinity lock there, either, as I'm used to it).

(2) In contrast, I much prefer the position of the shutter release on the Leica M cameras, which is actually 1 of the better things they borrowed from the Zeiss Ikon Contax II/III (shutter release centered within the wind knob), along w/the combined RF/VF. I think the Nikon position is their own carryover from the early RF models that more directly copied the shutter design of the TM ("Barnack") Leicas; they probably could have "fixed" it in the SP & later models, but chose not to (whether that was for legacy ergonomic or engineering reasons, I don't know, I think VinceC posted that it's easier to build). That said, it's not like it renders Nikon RFs unusable or anything, it's just annoying have to reach my finger back.

No my newbie question (I never touched Nikon S*) are
(1) do you usually use the unique focusing dial on the top (you know what I mean, right?) of the body?
(2) do you think the position of the shutter button more comfortable in Nikon?

 

[dexdog]

Agree, not unusable, but I often find myself punching an empty section of the top deck, instead of the shutter release. My finger normally "remembers" where the shutter release is by mid-roll.

 

[furcafe]

Yeah, whether or not it was easier to make the SP, et al. w/the shutter release in back, it was clearly possible to move it forward (after all, Canon was able to do it).

Agree, not unusable, but I often find myself punching an empty section of the top deck, instead of the shutter release. My finger normally "remembers" where the shutter release is by mid-roll.

 

[VinceC]

>>That said, it's not like it renders Nikon RFs unusable or anything, it's just annoying have to reach my finger back.<<

Remember that the Nikon F used the same shutter button layout up through the 1970s. So this was the standard placement for Nikon for a long time, changed, I think, for the F2 (I'm too lazy to go downstairs and look at my F2). For millions of F users, the shutter on Nikon RFs isn't in the "wrong" place.

 

[furcafe]

I realize that, & Nikon may have wanted to keep the shutter release in the same place as the S2 for that very reason. Same probably goes for the focus direction (FWIW, even Zeiss Ikon didn't stick w/the Contax focus direction when they made the Contarex SLRs). All I'm saying is that if Nikon had chosen to move the button forward in the SP, I'm pretty sure that all those millions of F users would have gotten used to that position, too (just like all Leica M users since the M3).

And those of us who own too many cameras, like me (& maybe dexdog), would be happier. 😀

>>That said, it's not like it renders Nikon RFs unusable or anything, it's just annoying have to reach my finger back.<<

Remember that the Nikon F used the same shutter button layout up through the 1970s. So this was the standard placement for Nikon for a long time, changed, I think, for the F2 (I'm too lazy to go downstairs and look at my F2). For millions of F users, the shutter on Nikon RFs isn't in the "wrong" place.

 

[MikeL]

I always thought the shutter button was in only position it could be in with the wheel. I use the wheel (when the time is available to) and it does change your hand position, but it helps me not have the momentary brain cramp when turning the lens differently from an M.

That's one thing holding me back from getting an adapter for the 50mm Millenium, it will still turn the other way.

 

[dexdog]

Yeah, whether or not it was easier to make the SP, et al. w/the shutter release in back, it was clearly possible to move it forward (after all, Canon was able to do it).

furcafe, I think that when you use the C-word in this forum, you are required to follow it up with frowny-face emoticon, or something. Right, Kiu?

 

[furcafe]

Getting away from the (apparently) controversial shutter release position for a moment, 1 feature of both the Nikon & Contax RFs that I really like is that having the focus helical built into the body allows for very small 50mm lenses. But I also happen to like the 50mm focal length.

I was wondering if people have some specific feature which they like better in Nikon than Leica.

 

[splitimageview]

It's odd, but even though I knew the S3/2000 shutter release was in a different position than on my other cameras, in practice, I never had to think about it, the finger just fell into place.

I've had an F2 for nearly 30 years and the release is 'up front' and the release is up front on the Leicas. Never an issue.

I don't use the focus wheel, it's weird. Have to focus left handed. 🙂

 

[Charles Woodhouse]

It's a bit like riding motorcycles with left or right gear change.If you are adaptable you get used to it very quickly.
I have a stack of screw Leicas and one usually has a film in it.I have six M's but the only one I use is an elcheapo M5 (very occasionally).
But my SP is an absolute delight and with an almost full range of lenses to match the frame lines (no 28mm) it makes for a very usable outfit,and the RF Nikkors are
excellent glass.
The Nikon F is basically a stretched SP with a mirror box and IMHO is the finest SLR ever made because of its strength and simplicity.
I think the Leitz engineers went slightly mad in 1954 with the overengineered M3 and went completely mad in 1965 with the ridiculously overengineered Leicaflex sans TTL metering!

 

[Mackinaw]

Aside from the better RF patch on the Leica, the Nikon is more reliable and requires less maintenance.

Do you have any hard data to back this up Kiu?

Jim B.

 

[VinceC]

>>Do you have any hard data to back this up Kiu?<<

As a longtime Nikon user, I never heard the term "CLA" until I started visiting forums frequented by Leica users.

 

[Mackinaw]

As a longtime Nikon user, I never heard the term "CLA" until I started visiting forums frequented by Leica users.

My Nikon M needed a CLA when I first bought it. Had a cloudy 50/2.0 lens and a sticky shutter.

Jim B.

 

[VinceC]

When the M was introduced, Nippon Kogaku had been making cameras for about two years and had built fewer than 800 cameras, largely copying the internal mechanisms of Leicas.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

All of my Leica's required CLA when I bought them. Two M3's, an M2, Leica CL, Leica IIIf, and a Leica III. The M3's and IIIf had shutter problems. Of sixteen Nikon RF's, The Nikon M required a CLA. The others "just work".

I compare it with Dual-Point distributers on High-Performance engines. The Leica M shutter has a lot more adjustments than the Nikon RF's. More to adjust, more to re-adjust and more often. Maybe the Leica M shutter is quieter, more accurate, or just over-engineered. They require more frequent maintenance than do the Nikon's.

 

[splitimageview]

The only Leicas I've had that needed CLA were the ones I bought at bargain prices. Any camera of unknown history, ownership, and origin may require a CLA. My Nikon F2 I've owned for nearly 30 years never has had a CLA, but the chain of ownership begins and ends with me, and I don't abuse equipment.

I've bought many M mount bodies, some of which were 40+ years old with the L seal...never been opened...worked perfectly.

None of my Nikon RFs needed CLA, but ony one was vintage (an SP.) But it had a very dim viewfinder and useless rangefinder patch...

I would venture that both Nikon RFs and Leica M (film) bodies are as a rule, extremely reliable if cared for properly. Any differences are more likely due to use, and abuse, than brand.