msbarnes
Well-known
I'm looking for a 6x6 coated folder, and from my limited research it seems that the zeiss ikonta's and agfa isolette's are the more favorable models. And with the Iskra's not-so-bad. With the coupled versions being more expensive...not sure which I want. Coupled obviously, but I can probably live with an uncoupled one for economy.
I know that these are old so I'd probably go with a reputable dealer (certo6 and fedka, any others?) or from this forum.
I assume that both lenses and builds are top-notch so, I'm wondering what are the differences between the Ikonta and Isollette's in terms of ergonomics, features, and viewfinders?
And in general, how accurate are these folders? Are they sufficient for wide-open performance? Is film flatness an issue? What is the closest focus distance?
The iskra seems to be the best value but how is the build? Is it noticably dodgy? I've never handled an FSU but avoided them because I figured that I'd eventually want the real thing.
I know that these are old so I'd probably go with a reputable dealer (certo6 and fedka, any others?) or from this forum.
I assume that both lenses and builds are top-notch so, I'm wondering what are the differences between the Ikonta and Isollette's in terms of ergonomics, features, and viewfinders?
And in general, how accurate are these folders? Are they sufficient for wide-open performance? Is film flatness an issue? What is the closest focus distance?
The iskra seems to be the best value but how is the build? Is it noticably dodgy? I've never handled an FSU but avoided them because I figured that I'd eventually want the real thing.
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graywolf
Well-known
When looking for an old camera like these to use, there are three things to look for 1. working condition. 2. working condition. 3. working condition.
That is the lens, shutter, film advance, rangefinder, and bellows need to be in good working condition. Looks may or may not matter to you. Almost any folding RF camera that is in good working condition is good camera..
Beyond working condition it is a matter of personal choice. I have an Iskra, it is not real pretty, but it is 100% functional since I sorted out the stiff focusing. I also have a Hapo 66e (rebranded Balda Mess Baldix) with an uncouple RF. Which do I prefer? The Iskra gets the nod for serious photography. The Hapo fits nicely in my pants pocket, so it get carried a lot more.
That is the lens, shutter, film advance, rangefinder, and bellows need to be in good working condition. Looks may or may not matter to you. Almost any folding RF camera that is in good working condition is good camera..
Beyond working condition it is a matter of personal choice. I have an Iskra, it is not real pretty, but it is 100% functional since I sorted out the stiff focusing. I also have a Hapo 66e (rebranded Balda Mess Baldix) with an uncouple RF. Which do I prefer? The Iskra gets the nod for serious photography. The Hapo fits nicely in my pants pocket, so it get carried a lot more.
P C Headland
Well-known
The build quality on my Iskra seems as good as most of my other CRF folders, the exception being the Certo Six. The Certo is better built than any of the others, Super Ikontas included. It also has a marginally better lens (IMHO), probably the best of all the folders.
A good Iskra or Super Isolette will be really nice to use, and assuming everything is in order, both would be capable of giving good results, even wide open. Film flatness is not an issue with these cameras. Close focus is 1 metre on the Iskra.
If you want a good shooter, concentrate on working condition rather than looks alone.
A good Iskra or Super Isolette will be really nice to use, and assuming everything is in order, both would be capable of giving good results, even wide open. Film flatness is not an issue with these cameras. Close focus is 1 metre on the Iskra.
If you want a good shooter, concentrate on working condition rather than looks alone.
Ken Smith
Why yes Ma'am - it folds
If you're looking at a coupled 6 X 6 rangefinder and have a Super Isolette in mind, be prepared to shell out some money for a good one. Because a lot of other folks are prepared to do so and there is competition for them. One just went for steep price (to me) on the big auction site. At the price it went for, I could have picked up a nice 6 X 6 SLR, TLR, or even a Fuji 690 in great condition.
martinsmith99
Established
I've found the cheap Agfa Isolette (not the Super version) with Apotar lens to be good, but until my Iskra arrives, I have no other 120 camera to compare it with.
Borghesia
Well-known
The Iskra has a great lens, but its body is prone to like leaks and mechanical problems.
If you get a good working Iskra, then it is the folder with the best bright big VF.
The Super Isolette has an even better lens, giving more refined results. Like a Rolleiflex Tessar. It is better build though delicate by its age.
The other Isolettes - II and III with Solinars - are also very nice folders giving you the best folder camera results.
A tip : I bought my Super Isolette for the same price as my Iskra (125,- euro's).
A way to get camera's cheap is to contact a Flickr member using the desired camera and sent him a mail asking if he want to sell the camera.
A year after I mailed a Super Isolette owner, he mailed me back for a deal.
My Super Isolette is working fine, my Iskra is suffering from a body lightleak that I never resolved.
If you get a good working Iskra, then it is the folder with the best bright big VF.
The Super Isolette has an even better lens, giving more refined results. Like a Rolleiflex Tessar. It is better build though delicate by its age.
The other Isolettes - II and III with Solinars - are also very nice folders giving you the best folder camera results.
A tip : I bought my Super Isolette for the same price as my Iskra (125,- euro's).
A way to get camera's cheap is to contact a Flickr member using the desired camera and sent him a mail asking if he want to sell the camera.
A year after I mailed a Super Isolette owner, he mailed me back for a deal.
My Super Isolette is working fine, my Iskra is suffering from a body lightleak that I never resolved.
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250swb
Well-known
There was a recent discussion on RFF about 6x6 folders that prompted me to get an Isolette and its a very nice camera. I got mine from Ebay for £18, in excellent (almost new) condition, with a lens hood and rangefinder, and at that price it is easy to take a risk. The Apotar lens is OK, but just OK, and the overall size is easy to put in a coat pocket. It's not going to produce Hasselblad images, but with a grainy film its a delight for expressing yourself.
Steve
Steve
literiter
Well-known
Of the cameras mentioned the Super Ikonta B is the easiest to find in good shape and lower price. It may not have the best lens of the three but it is good stopped down and acceptable wide open.
These old cameras need a lens hood.
These old cameras need a lens hood.
jnoir
Well-known
IIRC, in square format the Super Ikonta B has coated Tessars only from post-war 532/16 - easily identified by its chrome front, as opposed to the black enameled front of previous model - and later.
I have and use lots of MF folders, from Germany, France, UK, Japan... I find that each one has its own character, and it's hard to pick only one. That said, the Super Ikonta is more on the league of the Super Isolette, both coupled RFs. Super Ikonta is havier than the Super Isolette. The Isolette III with Solinar (4-element lens) is also a great performer and you may find it with the 75/3.5 lens model - uncoupled RF though. The Isolette III with Apotar (3-element lens) is not that bad. I'd say it mostly depends on your budget. As I have often said, I've repaired enough Iskras to know better than to buy one for personal use.
As for sharpness, film flatness, etc. I have never had an issue with a serviced camera. With a camera that comes "as-is", after being kept in a closet for 30+ years, chances are that issues will appear. Wide-open performance is best when lens is multicoated and, of course, 4-element lenses perform best than 3-element lenses. Nevertheless, some people think that CZ went a bit too far pushing the Tessar design up to f/2.8.
Closest focus distance in most folders comes down to 1 meter or about 3 feet.
I have and use lots of MF folders, from Germany, France, UK, Japan... I find that each one has its own character, and it's hard to pick only one. That said, the Super Ikonta is more on the league of the Super Isolette, both coupled RFs. Super Ikonta is havier than the Super Isolette. The Isolette III with Solinar (4-element lens) is also a great performer and you may find it with the 75/3.5 lens model - uncoupled RF though. The Isolette III with Apotar (3-element lens) is not that bad. I'd say it mostly depends on your budget. As I have often said, I've repaired enough Iskras to know better than to buy one for personal use.
As for sharpness, film flatness, etc. I have never had an issue with a serviced camera. With a camera that comes "as-is", after being kept in a closet for 30+ years, chances are that issues will appear. Wide-open performance is best when lens is multicoated and, of course, 4-element lenses perform best than 3-element lenses. Nevertheless, some people think that CZ went a bit too far pushing the Tessar design up to f/2.8.
Closest focus distance in most folders comes down to 1 meter or about 3 feet.
msbarnes
Well-known
I was looking into this some more and I read that the isollettes have unit cell focusing and so they are inherently better wide-open? For the experienced, is there a noticeable difference in wide-open performance between the Isolettes and Ikontas? And I guess the Certo Six's because those seem to be very popular too. Are those unit or front cell focusing?
What I want in a lens is nice/decent wide-open performance. Uncoupled and a coupled rangefinder isn't that important; I'd rather start with an uncoupled rangefinder to save money.
What I want in a lens is nice/decent wide-open performance. Uncoupled and a coupled rangefinder isn't that important; I'd rather start with an uncoupled rangefinder to save money.
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t6un
Established
The only unit focussing Isolette is the Super Isolette, others are front cell focussing. And yes, my limited experience says that front cell focussing lenses are truly good at one distance only. But it should be a little less evident in 6x6 than for example in 6x9...
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Brian Legge
Veteran
There are plenty of other unit focusing folders - the Iskra, Certo Six, Mamiya Six, etc.
The Super Ikonta IV is front cell focusing but isn't at all bad up close. It just has a softer look. Here is an example shot I just took fairly wide open and perhaps a touch front focused:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/6327723099
Here is a Super Speedex at a similar fstop - maybe one or two stops down:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/6234496939
I should shoot a comparison some day if I can resolve a few issues with the Super Ikonta as these are so different that they aren't really comparable. They do represent the general characteristics of the lenses I've seen.
While I generally prefer the look of the Super Isolette/Super Speedex the Super Ikonta lens could go very well with portraits.
The lens on the Iskra has been about as nice as the Super Isolette/Super Speedex lens but the cameras seem much more finicky elsewhere. I have one which works wonderfully... except with really thin film where the film wind auto detection failed and only gets 6 frames a roll. Fortunately thats only been one or two types of film, both out of production.
The Super Ikonta IV is front cell focusing but isn't at all bad up close. It just has a softer look. Here is an example shot I just took fairly wide open and perhaps a touch front focused:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/6327723099
Here is a Super Speedex at a similar fstop - maybe one or two stops down:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannelbrae/6234496939
I should shoot a comparison some day if I can resolve a few issues with the Super Ikonta as these are so different that they aren't really comparable. They do represent the general characteristics of the lenses I've seen.
While I generally prefer the look of the Super Isolette/Super Speedex the Super Ikonta lens could go very well with portraits.
The lens on the Iskra has been about as nice as the Super Isolette/Super Speedex lens but the cameras seem much more finicky elsewhere. I have one which works wonderfully... except with really thin film where the film wind auto detection failed and only gets 6 frames a roll. Fortunately thats only been one or two types of film, both out of production.
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msbarnes
Well-known
After looking into this some more, it seems that it comes down to a Super Isolette or Super Ikonta if I want a coupled rangefinder then an Isolette III or a Mess Ikonta if I'm ok with an uncoupled rangefinder. Of the 4 I listed, it seems that the Super Isolette would be the most ideal because it is unit-focusing but also the most expensive. And I figure that Isolettes and Ikontas are the easiest to sell and most likely to appreciate in value.
I'm going to dismiss the Certo 6 because it doesn't fold when the shutter is cocked, the Perkeo because they are scale focus only (besides the IIIe which is rare and more expensive), and the Iskra because the quality is spotty. I haven't heard too much about the Mamiya Six so maybe that's something I'll look into.
Any comments on the uncoupled Isolettes and Ikontas? They are both popular front-focusing and Tessar-types so I'd expect them to have comparable lens performance, builds, and viewfinders. But since I've never handled one before, I'm curious to know if there is something worth mentioning besides the fact the original Isolette bellow leaks. I know that condition is the most important but I might as well search and wait for the one that suits me best.
And are the Super Isolettes and Super Ikonta's reliable and self-serviceable? It seem's that they have more auto-features which equates to more failure points. If I'm going to pay extra for a coupled rangefinder, I wouldn't want it to break on me.
Brian, how did you scan those? Another thing that is important to note is that I only have a Epson 4990, not a dedicated film scanner and I scan most of my negatives and print my favorites. So maybe I won't even be able to tell the difference in sharpness between the Super Isolette and Super Ikonta on my computer....
I'm going to dismiss the Certo 6 because it doesn't fold when the shutter is cocked, the Perkeo because they are scale focus only (besides the IIIe which is rare and more expensive), and the Iskra because the quality is spotty. I haven't heard too much about the Mamiya Six so maybe that's something I'll look into.
Any comments on the uncoupled Isolettes and Ikontas? They are both popular front-focusing and Tessar-types so I'd expect them to have comparable lens performance, builds, and viewfinders. But since I've never handled one before, I'm curious to know if there is something worth mentioning besides the fact the original Isolette bellow leaks. I know that condition is the most important but I might as well search and wait for the one that suits me best.
And are the Super Isolettes and Super Ikonta's reliable and self-serviceable? It seem's that they have more auto-features which equates to more failure points. If I'm going to pay extra for a coupled rangefinder, I wouldn't want it to break on me.
Brian, how did you scan those? Another thing that is important to note is that I only have a Epson 4990, not a dedicated film scanner and I scan most of my negatives and print my favorites. So maybe I won't even be able to tell the difference in sharpness between the Super Isolette and Super Ikonta on my computer....
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graywolf
Well-known
Then you might as well decide upon the Super Ikonta, unless you are willing to hunt for a long time, or are extremely lucky.
OTOH, some people are simply lucky, I know of someone that was given a Linhof Super Technika outfit easily worth $5K.
jett
Well-known
what size hood can be used for the super isolette?
Brian Legge
Veteran
I scanned these photos with a Canoscan 8800f - basically on par with your scanner. Any of the cameras discussed here will produce great results.
I don't have any experience with the Mamiya Six though I'd try one out some time. I've seen some very nice results taken with them (though there are a lot of versions which make talking about the camera a bit more difficult than some of the other camera lines).
The Super Isolette can take 29.5mm threaded or 32mm push-on hoods/filters.
A friend as a Isolette III. Very nice camera and she gets good results with it. Hers has the f4.5 Apotar lens - nice over all. If you can find one with the Solinar lens you have a camera very close to the Super Isolette/Speedex.
I don't have any experience with the Mamiya Six though I'd try one out some time. I've seen some very nice results taken with them (though there are a lot of versions which make talking about the camera a bit more difficult than some of the other camera lines).
The Super Isolette can take 29.5mm threaded or 32mm push-on hoods/filters.
A friend as a Isolette III. Very nice camera and she gets good results with it. Hers has the f4.5 Apotar lens - nice over all. If you can find one with the Solinar lens you have a camera very close to the Super Isolette/Speedex.
msbarnes
Well-known
Another q: Will the FSU cases fit on the German Cameras? e.g. Iskras and Super Isolettes; Moskvas and Super Ikonta C's.
nonuniform
Established
If I had the money, I would have gone with a Mamiya 6, but, I have a Super Ikonta instead.
Does anyone have a suggestion about a lens shade for the Super Ikonta IV, I could use one!
Does anyone have a suggestion about a lens shade for the Super Ikonta IV, I could use one!
charjohncarter
Veteran
I can only speak for Isolette II(s). They are toughly built and really not pro types. If you buy one, be sure to get ready for a bellows unless you buy one from a good (as above) dealer:
F/4.5 at 1/25 with the Apotar.
F/4.5 at 1/25 with the Apotar.
jnoir
Well-known
The ERC from an Iskra will fit a Super Isolette, I know that for sure.
I have no experience with Moskvas, I cannot say for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised either.