funkaoshi
Well-known
Are the J3 (50mm f/1.5) and the J8 (50mm f/2.0) different enough that it'd be worth owning both. I know they are both Sonnar lenses. Do they produce similar enough results that getting a J8 (I already own a very nice J3) would be a waste of time? Cheers.
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xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
it would not be a waste of time if you land a good J-8.
they are a bit similar yes, but since J-8's are much more affordable and available then why not get one and give it a try.
you can always re sell it if it is not your cup of tea.
they are a bit similar yes, but since J-8's are much more affordable and available then why not get one and give it a try.
you can always re sell it if it is not your cup of tea.
funkaoshi
Well-known
I'll need to check out the Jupiters Rule group on Flickr perhaps to see how they compare. I really like my J3.
oftheherd
Veteran
You might want to check out Raid's thread on testing 50mm lenses. I think he may have tested those two.
Thardy
Veteran
I've heard good things about the J8 so I bought one. I just opened the box it was mailed in.
It looks about the size of a Nokton 40, and has non clickable f stops, which is a little weird to me, but I already knew about it.
The J8s are usually much newer looking than J3s which may not matter to you.
I hope it performs better than my Industar 61 as far as flare. If it does not, no problem, it was cheap and it will cure me of looking for Russian bargains.
It looks about the size of a Nokton 40, and has non clickable f stops, which is a little weird to me, but I already knew about it.
The J8s are usually much newer looking than J3s which may not matter to you.
I hope it performs better than my Industar 61 as far as flare. If it does not, no problem, it was cheap and it will cure me of looking for Russian bargains.
funkaoshi
Well-known
The J8 is definitely soft wide open. (It is amazing how big a difference stopping down to f4 makes.) Well if this fellow ever replies back I think i'll pick it up. Clearly you can never have enough 50s.
jarski
Veteran
there are so many LTM/M 50's out there to explore, why have two FSU lens of almost the same specs ? yes, Jupiters are cheap but are you sure either would end up collecting dust after the first tests ?
eli griggs
Well-known
ruben, something is up with your font, it's coming across as black on grey on my standard forum page. Please check your settings.
Eli
Eli
funkaoshi
Well-known
jarski, because the one I'm looking at is $60. You don't find too many LTM lenses for that price. If it ends up being a waste I'm sure I can sell it again for that price, or there abouts. Because the US dollar is so high right now, a lot of the lenses in the classifieds which I might have thought about before are a bit too expensive. A shame, really.
R
ruben
Guest
Hi funkaoshi,
Before I bought my Jupiter 3, for my Kievs, (non Leica mount) I opened a thread asking for the practical side of purchasing an f/1.5 while there is a high quality Soviet lens for Kiev mount, the Helios 103, which is f/1.7. At that thread I remember our friend Xayraa33 predicting I will end using the Helios - which became true.
The behind the scene story is as follows: a really good German Sonnar f/1.5 (the prototype of the Jupiter 3) may climb up to over u$ 400 these days, and some times quite over. Hence that this is a highly priced commodity, with its own subindustry of falsifications. Fortunately, as far as I have read, Sonnar falsifications are detectable by clear cut signs.
This brings us to the Jupiters 3, the next cheaper alternative. The problem here is not the falsifications, but that there are a lot of Jupiters-3 which are.... (how may I define it?)... ok, not up to the expectances, or their due performance. So you cannot really know what are you going to get after you buy one.
In all the abovesaid I have referred to the Jupiters 3 taking their due performance as revealed ONLY at f/1.5
Knowing all this background beforehand I decided I will make only one try of Jupiter 3 purchase at a medium price offer, and I think I went somewhat higher than medium price. And I lost in my bet.
But as I re-read your post you are not specially looking for the wide aperture, so you can make a trial at the US seller Fedka.com, whose optical products never deceived me, nor I got any email about a bad lens from other friends. But I will strongly recommend a J-8 with fixed cliks, since they are double aperture scaled.
And of course if we are speaking about Leica mount cameras, there are a lot of alternatives, including the new lenses of Cosina Voightlander.
Cheers,
Ruben
Hi funkaoshi,
Before I bought my Jupiter 3, for my Kievs, (non Leica mount) I opened a thread asking for the practical side of purchasing an f/1.5 while there is a high quality Soviet lens for Kiev mount, the Helios 103, which is f/1.7. At that thread I remember our friend Xayraa33 predicting I will end using the Helios - which became true.
The behind the scene story is as follows: a really good German Sonnar f/1.5 (the prototype of the Jupiter 3) may climb up to over u$ 400 these days, and some times quite over. Hence that this is a highly priced commodity, with its own subindustry of falsifications. Fortunately, as far as I have read, Sonnar falsifications are detectable by clear cut signs.
This brings us to the Jupiters 3, the next cheaper alternative. The problem here is not the falsifications, but that there are a lot of Jupiters-3 which are.... (how may I define it?)... ok, not up to the expectances, or their due performance. So you cannot really know what are you going to get after you buy one.
In all the abovesaid I have referred to the Jupiters 3 taking their due performance as revealed ONLY at f/1.5
Knowing all this background beforehand I decided I will make only one try of Jupiter 3 purchase at a medium price offer, and I think I went somewhat higher than medium price. And I lost in my bet.
But as I re-read your post you are not specially looking for the wide aperture, so you can make a trial at the US seller Fedka.com, whose optical products never deceived me, nor I got any email about a bad lens from other friends. But I will strongly recommend a J-8 with fixed cliks, since they are double aperture scaled.
And of course if we are speaking about Leica mount cameras, there are a lot of alternatives, including the new lenses of Cosina Voightlander.
Cheers,
Ruben
Before I bought my Jupiter 3, for my Kievs, (non Leica mount) I opened a thread asking for the practical side of purchasing an f/1.5 while there is a high quality Soviet lens for Kiev mount, the Helios 103, which is f/1.7. At that thread I remember our friend Xayraa33 predicting I will end using the Helios - which became true.
The behind the scene story is as follows: a really good German Sonnar f/1.5 (the prototype of the Jupiter 3) may climb up to over u$ 400 these days, and some times quite over. Hence that this is a highly priced commodity, with its own subindustry of falsifications. Fortunately, as far as I have read, Sonnar falsifications are detectable by clear cut signs.
This brings us to the Jupiters 3, the next cheaper alternative. The problem here is not the falsifications, but that there are a lot of Jupiters-3 which are.... (how may I define it?)... ok, not up to the expectances, or their due performance. So you cannot really know what are you going to get after you buy one.
In all the abovesaid I have referred to the Jupiters 3 taking their due performance as revealed ONLY at f/1.5
Knowing all this background beforehand I decided I will make only one try of Jupiter 3 purchase at a medium price offer, and I think I went somewhat higher than medium price. And I lost in my bet.
But as I re-read your post you are not specially looking for the wide aperture, so you can make a trial at the US seller Fedka.com, whose optical products never deceived me, nor I got any email about a bad lens from other friends. But I will strongly recommend a J-8 with fixed cliks, since they are double aperture scaled.
And of course if we are speaking about Leica mount cameras, there are a lot of alternatives, including the new lenses of Cosina Voightlander.
Cheers,
Ruben
Hi funkaoshi,
Before I bought my Jupiter 3, for my Kievs, (non Leica mount) I opened a thread asking for the practical side of purchasing an f/1.5 while there is a high quality Soviet lens for Kiev mount, the Helios 103, which is f/1.7. At that thread I remember our friend Xayraa33 predicting I will end using the Helios - which became true.
The behind the scene story is as follows: a really good German Sonnar f/1.5 (the prototype of the Jupiter 3) may climb up to over u$ 400 these days, and some times quite over. Hence that this is a highly priced commodity, with its own subindustry of falsifications. Fortunately, as far as I have read, Sonnar falsifications are detectable by clear cut signs.
This brings us to the Jupiters 3, the next cheaper alternative. The problem here is not the falsifications, but that there are a lot of Jupiters-3 which are.... (how may I define it?)... ok, not up to the expectances, or their due performance. So you cannot really know what are you going to get after you buy one.
In all the abovesaid I have referred to the Jupiters 3 taking their due performance as revealed ONLY at f/1.5
Knowing all this background beforehand I decided I will make only one try of Jupiter 3 purchase at a medium price offer, and I think I went somewhat higher than medium price. And I lost in my bet.
But as I re-read your post you are not specially looking for the wide aperture, so you can make a trial at the US seller Fedka.com, whose optical products never deceived me, nor I got any email about a bad lens from other friends. But I will strongly recommend a J-8 with fixed cliks, since they are double aperture scaled.
And of course if we are speaking about Leica mount cameras, there are a lot of alternatives, including the new lenses of Cosina Voightlander.
Cheers,
Ruben
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KenD
Film Shooter
I have both, and find them very different lenses. My j-3 arrived with <<big issues>> in back focus - it was totally out of focus everywhere, but worse close in. After Brian Sweeney had a go at it I have been using it as my favorite portrait lens wide open. Maybe I will one day get around to shooting a brick wall to see if the lens is good for brick walls. The j-8 is a crisp high contrast lens that is technically good but a lot like my way-too-many collection of LTM normals. If you already have an f /2 that you are happy with I don't think there is a lot of benefit to a j-8. My i-61's are basically as good if you don't need the speed.
Attachments
eli griggs
Well-known
I just received these two lenses along with a nice Zorki 4 and a black J12 in a trade and have yet to try them out, having been in bed over a week with Grim Death, in the guise of 'the flu' but I expect to do so soon, this next week if i can get caught up on other art related chores.
Perhaps I should try mounting my Leica IIIc to a tri-pod and hot glue a bunch of dominoes so some such to a long board, along with a few charts, to shoot all my ltm lenses in a test. Any suggestions on how to conduct such a test?
By-the-way, what should an adjustment of a lens like this cost and does that include a CLA? Who would you recommend?
Cheers
Perhaps I should try mounting my Leica IIIc to a tri-pod and hot glue a bunch of dominoes so some such to a long board, along with a few charts, to shoot all my ltm lenses in a test. Any suggestions on how to conduct such a test?
By-the-way, what should an adjustment of a lens like this cost and does that include a CLA? Who would you recommend?
Cheers
KenD
Film Shooter
Brian Sweeney, an RFF member, is considered my many the master of j-3 tweeking. He did wonders on mine.
KenD
KenD
yanidel
Well-known
I own both. My J-3 has significant back-focus which make it basically useless if not used at F8. The J-8 has a very slight back focus which is not annoyance.
Both have a draw I like, especially J-3 wide open. Yet, they are no competition for the Summicron, which has better resolution, contrast and color rendition.
The worst of these lenses is ergonomics as they do not have F clicks.
This being said at 5 to 10 times less cost than the Summicron, if 50mm is not used a lot, I would go for it. Note that chances to find a great sample from day one are pretty low.
Both have a draw I like, especially J-3 wide open. Yet, they are no competition for the Summicron, which has better resolution, contrast and color rendition.
The worst of these lenses is ergonomics as they do not have F clicks.
This being said at 5 to 10 times less cost than the Summicron, if 50mm is not used a lot, I would go for it. Note that chances to find a great sample from day one are pretty low.
raid
Dad Photographer
I had several J-3 lenses in the test [maybe 6-7], and also one or two J-8 lenses. Both are excellent lenses. One is a copy of the excellent Zeiss Jena 5cm/2.0 and one of the outstanding Zeiss Jena 5cm/1.5. You cannot lose with either one.
My J-3 lenses all went at one time to Brian to have them optimized in sharpness. He also put together for me several ZJ Sonnar lenses in LTM [they usually were made in Contax mount]. Ruben refers to the expensive Zeiss lenses in Leica mount. They usually are repackaged J-3 lenses.
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jarski
Veteran
guess you're right, money loss is small if it turns out either of these wont be for you. but needs to note that $60 is not enough, if lens needs an adjustment (which many of these do).
would be nice to see them side by side, how much smaller J8 is ?
funkaoshi
Well-known
Yeah, I ended up deciding against buying it. Even though it's only 60 bucks, its still something I may not need. Seems like a waste to buy it when someone else who actually needs a new 50mm could pick it up. I think I should try and find a more modern 50 like the Zeiss Plannar or Hexannon 50mm.
Paul T.
Veteran
it's good to turn down bargains. Seriously!
I have a couple of great J8s in Kiev mount, plus an even better early J3 which Darkavenger found - which certainly gives better results than my (exellent) Summicron Collapsible. And I don't really use them. I won't sell them because they won't fetch enough money (and I'm reasonably ruthless, I'm just parting with an excellent Nikkor 85/1.4) . I just feel guilty every time I look at all those lenses in the cupboard...
I have a couple of great J8s in Kiev mount, plus an even better early J3 which Darkavenger found - which certainly gives better results than my (exellent) Summicron Collapsible. And I don't really use them. I won't sell them because they won't fetch enough money (and I'm reasonably ruthless, I'm just parting with an excellent Nikkor 85/1.4) . I just feel guilty every time I look at all those lenses in the cupboard...