Jollylook instant, another failed Kickstarter

zuiko85

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Jollylook just posted what amounts to a 'kiss off' update. The will now send out rewards only if and when they sell product at retail. This means backers might as well give up, they lost whatever money the put into this turkey.

And a preemptive answer to any who say 'but Kickstarter is not a store'.

Well no, they are not a store. Bur KS project creators do state that if 'you give me this much money, then I will send this thing to you.'

I'm so done with Kickstarter, 2 out of 4 projects were total failures and of the other two only one delivered as promised.
 
Having looked at a youtube video review I can think of better ways to spend sixty five dollars.
 
So they changed the terms AFTER people bought in under a different agreement? That's unethical in the extreme. I wonder if someone could get a charge back on their credit card on these kickstarter things and avoid this sort of stuff. If they don't deliver the product under the terms that they originally stated, I'd expect a full refund from my CC provider. If people are just gambling w/ their money, the casinos or a weekend poker game are safer bets.

I'm giving good odds on how long it takes Fuji to drop their "new" B&W films that they're introducing. You know, like they did w/ their other films?
 
Well, the website actually says:

"Straight to the news:

It turned out that we were too optimistic, after solving all the problems with production and setting it up, we don’t have enough money to buy film and continue shipping rewards in the planned quantities and time.

Although we were forced, as we wrote earlier, to sell some of the cameras, sales are not going as well as expected and do not provide sufficient funds.

Continuing to produce cameras and paying the production personnel is expensive. Today, after all what we went through, we are in a situation where we need to sell two cameras in order to be able to ship one reward to you, our backers. We really really really need your support and patience once again.

Many of our backers are angry and upset, and we can understand that, but this is Kickstarter. Making something new is always hard. Some projects will stall or change direction. Many will go on to impact the world in ways both small and large. When you back a project, you’re not buying something that already exists. You’re supporting a creator’s right to try to make that thing—and agreeing to go along for the ride. Our ride has been and still is very bumpy, but we won't give up.

We will be sending rewards in small batches every two weeks. The sooner we will be able to sell more cameras, the sooner we will be able to ship all the rewards. It is hard to predict how things will go at this moment.

We will continue to work very hard to fulfil our obligationsand will keep you informed.

All of you will receive your rewards!

We thank you for your patience and for sharing your emotions, even when some of you are unhappy with us.

Without you, this project would not be possible, and because of you, it is still going on and will succeed.

We will keep you updated on our progress.

THANK YOU!

Until next time,

The Jollylook team."

Seems to me that they are selling and shipping still... but made a decision that isn`t popular with their backers, but ultimately could get everyone their product while keeping the company in business. Now, has anyone really received a "reward" or is that BS? Seems to be the key.
 
It looks like they're selling cameras - they are available from several online retail outlets.



I've been very careful about backing kickstarters because most seem to be run by people who don't know how to account for all the costs their project involves. The only one that hasn't delivered to me yet is Ferrania...
 
I've supported somewhere on the order of twenty Kickstarters over the past several years. 14 have delivered, 9 or 10 of those are darn good products. The others are meh, but they did what they promised: it just didn't really turn out as well as hoped.

5 are still outstanding and in process; 2 or 3 of them are nearing completion and should ship within the next month or three.

I don't invest in KS projects with the same attitude that I buy products online. I invest in a KS project because I think the project and the project team has merit and ought to get a chance. To me, it's a way to give entrepreneurs a bit of a boost, and I only do it with money that I can afford to see disappear. It's a way of giving back to (mostly) young people some of the support that was given to me as a young person.

When a project turns left in the middle of the process, I talk with the person or people running it. Most of them are well-intentioned and really want to get their project finished, and hope that the results are as cool as they hoped when they started it. Few are truly aware of just how much work it takes to really get a project from the idea to the physical object until they do their second or third project. I think they deserve a bit of understanding and patience if it's their first project...

G
 
I've supported somewhere on the order of twenty Kickstarters over the past several years. 14 have delivered, 9 or 10 of those are darn good products. The others are meh, but they did what they promised: it just didn't really turn out as well as hoped.

5 are still outstanding and in process; 2 or 3 of them are nearing completion and should ship within the next month or three.

I don't invest in KS projects with the same attitude that I buy products online. I invest in a KS project because I think the project and the project team has merit and ought to get a chance. To me, it's a way to give entrepreneurs a bit of a boost, and I only do it with money that I can afford to see disappear. It's a way of giving back to (mostly) young people some of the support that was given to me as a young person.

When a project turns left in the middle of the process, I talk with the person or people running it. Most of them are well-intentioned and really want to get their project finished, and hope that the results are as cool as they hoped when they started it. Few are truly aware of just how much work it takes to really get a project from the idea to the physical object until they do their second or third project. I think they deserve a bit of understanding and patience if it's their first project...

G
I agree with your assessment in the last paragraph Godfrey. I believe most KS project creators have good intentions. Trouble is that a common human failing is to just go silent when problems arise. Photo related hardware seems to have very high failure rate. I guess ‘Hardware is hard’ is a true fact.

On a different note, kickstarter could also be a lot more transparent about the risk involved in backing any projects. They should remove the ‘learn about Accountability’ on kickstarter and delete the ‘report this project’ field also.

These ‘feel good’ features on their site gives the unfounded impression that somehow they can influence creators to follow those guidelines.
The facts are that Kickstarter has absolutely no legal or otherwise ability to enforce their ‘terms of service’ and they should be upfront and honest about this. True, it would impact their business model....but there you are.
 
yah well at least u didnt dump $400 into Reflex like I did!
😱:bang:
Didn’t bite on that one. Didn’t like the design.
However have been logging in just out of morbid curiosity.
If I had an idea to produce a new 35mm reflex it would be dead simple.
Basically just tear down and copy a Ricoh KR5 and add DoF preview and top shutter speed of 1/1000. The PK mount is ok, still plenty of used Takumar and third party lenses out there.

Been following Film Ferrania and The Box is Back for the same reason, morbid curiosity, but didn’t back either.
 
Kickstarter

Kickstarter

In the last 3 or 4 years I've looked at two photo-related KS projects requiring a commitment costing more than the price of a good lunch. The first was Lab-Box. As the completion dates slipped, I got a lot of razzing from friends for pouring $150 down a hole, but it now looks like a solid investment, soon to deliver in full. The other project was Reflex. After 15 minutes looking at their presentation and their KS financial goal, I (correctly) concluded that they would need at least 5 times the investment they were seeking to afford their goal. The Reflex folks are either poor crooks or so deluded that they had no hope of getting anywhere. The only surprise this that they have not yet declared an end to the project. IMO anyone who put money into Reflex needs a financial keeper.
 
Oh, for the days of real entrepreneurs who mortgaged their homes to finance their own company, to realize their dream of making widgets of their own design.

Having backed several Kickstarter projects, I do so with crossed fingers and some hope. Kickstarter is a novel and useful idea, but people who are playing with other people’s money never act the same way as people who are playing with their own, in any sphere of life. People behind Kickstarter projects, and people who have taken put loans and mortgaged their homes to bring a project to fruition, may both sincerely say, if the project is behind schedule, that “we are doing all we can”, but you can bet that those playing with other people’s money will be doing a lot less of it than the guy who will lose his home if the project fails. It’s just human nature.

Example, Jobs and Wozniak:

“To buy supplies to create the first products for sale, Wozniak sold his HP 65 Calculator for $500 and Jobs sold his VW bus for $750. With that working capital, a design for the product and a plan to sell units for $50 each, they expected to clear $700 after costs. On April 1st 1976 they drew up a partnership agreement for Apple Computer.

The audience at the Homebrew Computer club was not impressed when the Jobs and Wozniak presented their first printed circuit boards, but one person stayed afterwards to talk for a while. Paul Terrell had three computer stores and visions of building a national chain.

Jobs followed up with Terrell the next day. But Terrell wanted assembled computers, not printed circuit boards, to sell to end users, not tinkerers. He was willing to pay $500 each on delivery.

The new company needed $15,000 of parts to fill the order. Atari would only sell the parts for cash up front.

A bank turned the two scruffy guys down for a loan and another computer parts store declined an equity stake in the new venture. “Finally Jobs was able to convince the manager of Cramer Electronics to call Paul Terrell to confirm that he had really committed to a $25,000 order,” Terrell confirmed it and then Jobs got the parts on 30 days credit.

When after 30 days the computers were delivered and paid for, “Apple was on the verge of being profitable.”

In January 1977, Apple was valued at $5,309. By the end of December 1980, it went public for $1.79 billion.”

For what it’s worth, their idea was so vague they likely would never have been approved for a KS project.
 
had to go look at this, although am vaguely remembering it. seems their estimated delivery varies from Dec 2017 to Aug 2018.

They are now claiming delivery this August but I dont think they have a working prototype yet.

...IMO anyone who put money into Reflex needs a financial keeper.

lol

One thing that soured Reflex is that instead of focusing on the dev of the camera they went off to make 40mm lenses instead. Which never was mentioned during the fund raising stage.
 
For what it’s worth, their idea was so vague they likely would never have been approved for a KS project.

As long as they get their 5% (and that is collected off the top) Kickstarter will approve any project.
Really, what risk do they take on? If the project reaches it's goal, they get paid regardless of what happens after that.
Have you noticed that there is no 'contact information' on their website.
Has anyone who has used the "report this project to Kickstarter"
button ever received a verified, personal response to a complaint?
Anyone? Ever?
What a great business model. A guaranteed percentage of the take for every successfully funded campaign, and absolutely zero responsibility after that.
 
Oh, so Kickstarter is now a bad guy. Really?

Come on. Kickstarter runs the servers and such to enable the promotion and all that. That costs money, and is why they get their 5% regardless.

I've never looked on Kickstarter as being anything more than a communications enabler. I take it on me to evaluate whether a proposal is worth my putting in a dime, and don't seek for some higher authority to approve or disapprove of a project. 🙂

G
 
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