AidasCams
Member
Hi!
I always knew at least two manufacturers of Jupiter-3 lenses. Zorki mount J-3 were produced in Optek and Zomz plants. Recently I found J-3 made in Krasnogorsk in early fifties. Is it common one and who could tell me the differencies between Optek, Zomz and KMZ ones?
Regards,
Aidas
www.sovietcams.com
I always knew at least two manufacturers of Jupiter-3 lenses. Zorki mount J-3 were produced in Optek and Zomz plants. Recently I found J-3 made in Krasnogorsk in early fifties. Is it common one and who could tell me the differencies between Optek, Zomz and KMZ ones?
Regards,
Aidas
www.sovietcams.com
AlexBurdov
Member
J-3 in Krasnogorsk in early fiften from CZ optik glass and CZ lens technology. It is very good J-3. After 1955 Jupiters made from USSRs optik-glass and use USSRs techlogy. In other words -
1) bad darkening
2) bubble
and other change for the worse
1) bad darkening
2) bubble
and other change for the worse
Interesting what Google turns up.
I just picked up a "basket Case" 1956 ZOMZ Jupiter-3, actually the second one that I've had. The first was parted out, the optics were "just not right". The focus mount was good, but missing th screw for the focus stop. I turned it into the close-focus J-3 and put a KMZ optics module in it.
The latest one has a lot of "play" or "slop" in the helical. As in almost 1m's worth at 5m! I filled it with vacuum pump grease, so it does not wobble freely- just dampened. I'll be comparing a 1956 KMZ Jupiter-3 (first-rate) with this 1956 ZOMZ Jupiter-3 soon. The last of the KMZ's vs the first of the ZOMZ. I've suspected that production shifted from KMZ to ZOMZ with the introduction of new glass as the German stock of glass ran dry. I have four KMZ J-3's, two 53's, 55, and 56, and they are all good. I had a 1950 KMZ J-3 that was just optically "wrong". My 1949 ZK Sonnar is as good as a Wartime SOnnar.
SO: be wary of first-run J-3's, I think it took a year to get them right. I have a 1959 ZOMZ that is really good, and traded one off that was also good. But not as good as the KMZ's.
I just picked up a "basket Case" 1956 ZOMZ Jupiter-3, actually the second one that I've had. The first was parted out, the optics were "just not right". The focus mount was good, but missing th screw for the focus stop. I turned it into the close-focus J-3 and put a KMZ optics module in it.
The latest one has a lot of "play" or "slop" in the helical. As in almost 1m's worth at 5m! I filled it with vacuum pump grease, so it does not wobble freely- just dampened. I'll be comparing a 1956 KMZ Jupiter-3 (first-rate) with this 1956 ZOMZ Jupiter-3 soon. The last of the KMZ's vs the first of the ZOMZ. I've suspected that production shifted from KMZ to ZOMZ with the introduction of new glass as the German stock of glass ran dry. I have four KMZ J-3's, two 53's, 55, and 56, and they are all good. I had a 1950 KMZ J-3 that was just optically "wrong". My 1949 ZK Sonnar is as good as a Wartime SOnnar.
SO: be wary of first-run J-3's, I think it took a year to get them right. I have a 1959 ZOMZ that is really good, and traded one off that was also good. But not as good as the KMZ's.
brachal
Refrigerated User
As far as I know, the Optek plant is just a misidentification of ZOMZ. The ZOMZ logo changed in '62 or '63 and the old logo somehow got labeled as Optek. According to Princelle, ZOMZ operates under the "KMZ military-industrial umbrella" and produced LTM and Kiev mount Jupiter-3 and Orion-15 lenses. They also produced the MIR-1 and TAIR for SLRs. My Jupiter-3 is 1961 ZOMZ production.
Bingley
Veteran
Several years ago I had the good fortune to borrow a Krasnogorsk J-3 from another member here. It was (and I hope still is) a terrific lens. The owner opined that the Krasnogorsk jupiters were the ones to look for (high likelihood of true CZ glass), and I have no reason to doubt him.
40oz
...
Well I have a 1960 J-3 that doesn't have "bad darkening" or "bubble," or anything I could call a "a change for the worse." Perhaps it's just a way for one group of people to say "ha ha, mine's better than yours." Or perhaps somene had a bad sample and assumed they were all that way. I've got a couple good examples and have no reason to belive they aren't all good when they weren't/aren't "collimated" by a misled hack.
AFAIK, all J-3's are coated, while very few Sonnars from Zeiss Jena are. I'm not arguing that lenses from Jena are inferior in construction, but it seems odd to assume the plants making the Jupiters got all the other technology right but gave up when it came to the image quality. I'm really not buying it.
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Well, the 1956 ZOMZ (triplet logo) that I just took apart has so much slop between the inner and outer helical that the optics and RF cam shifted enough to throw the Rangefinder off my 1m at 5m. The second 1956 ZOMZ that I picked up was just optically "wrong". The glass was in correctly in the barrel- center sharp, just the edges were distorted. The glass was good and I re-used it in other lenses. The optical fixture was just off. I think it took them a while to take over production using the new Russian glass after the German glass stock ran out.
My 1959 ZOMZ was 1st Rate.
I have shot with a lot of Jupiter-3's. The KMZ J-3's from the early 50s are the best that I have used. All 5 of them.
My 1959 ZOMZ was 1st Rate.
I have shot with a lot of Jupiter-3's. The KMZ J-3's from the early 50s are the best that I have used. All 5 of them.
I've shot with a lot of Jupiter-3's, from a ZK Sonnar to a 1986 J-3. Late 40's, early 50s, mid 50s, late 50s, early 60s, "mod 60s", late 60s, 70s, and the 80s.
So far the best that I have used are the 50 KMZ lenses, with the ZOMZ lenses made after 1956 into the early 60s being close.
Some shots here:
http://ziforums.com/album.php?albumid=97
And more comparison albums here:
http://ziforums.com/album.php?u=15
This is with a 1983 J-3, wide-Open
Another 1980s J-3 wide-open
I have shot with 6 1980s J-3's.
1969 J-3 wide-open,
1958 ZOMZ J-3 with a new front element from a 1974 J-3 that I put in it:
Wide-Open
(the 1959 ZOMZ with new front element from a 1986 J-3 was even sharper)
A pre-war 5cm F1.5 Sonnar, uncoated, made into LTM,
Wide-Open
Wartime Zeiss Sonnar, "basket Case" with 1/3rd of the front coating rubbed off.
Wide-Open
And a 1953 KMZ J-3, wide-open,
Tight Crop with the '53 J-3, wide-Open
Of all of them, I think my 1953 J-3 is the sharpest. I am "just biased".
And who would ever use an uncoated Sonnar, anyway...
'38 Sonnar at F4
'53 J-3, at F4
So far the best that I have used are the 50 KMZ lenses, with the ZOMZ lenses made after 1956 into the early 60s being close.
Some shots here:
http://ziforums.com/album.php?albumid=97
And more comparison albums here:
http://ziforums.com/album.php?u=15
This is with a 1983 J-3, wide-Open
Another 1980s J-3 wide-open
I have shot with 6 1980s J-3's.
1969 J-3 wide-open,
1958 ZOMZ J-3 with a new front element from a 1974 J-3 that I put in it:
Wide-Open
(the 1959 ZOMZ with new front element from a 1986 J-3 was even sharper)
A pre-war 5cm F1.5 Sonnar, uncoated, made into LTM,
Wide-Open
Wartime Zeiss Sonnar, "basket Case" with 1/3rd of the front coating rubbed off.
Wide-Open
And a 1953 KMZ J-3, wide-open,
Tight Crop with the '53 J-3, wide-Open
Of all of them, I think my 1953 J-3 is the sharpest. I am "just biased".
And who would ever use an uncoated Sonnar, anyway...
'38 Sonnar at F4
'53 J-3, at F4
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jmkelly
rangefinder user
I will take Brian's word for it that the early KMZ J-3's are among the best - he has worked with a lot more examples of the lens than I have. I have had one KMZ lens and it had a bit of fungus and was not shimmed for Leica. I had a 1962 "arrow-eye" logo ZOMZ that had a sloppy mount but made excellent pictures. I had a 1960 triplet logo ZOMZ that was among the best J-3's I have used, and a 1958 that was among the worst. Brian has had poor experiences with newer lenses; on the other hand I have had three Valdai J-3's ('77, '82 & '84) that have been stellar. You pays your money and you takes your chances.
I would like to see the images from the Valdai lenses. I ended up parting mine out to replace front elements on older lenses. The glass elements were not the problem- I think it was the cheaper fixtures being used.
The '55 KMZ J-3: cleaned out Fungus, converted to Contax Mount.
At F1.5, focus on the one blade cutting across the background:
The '55 KMZ J-3: cleaned out Fungus, converted to Contax Mount.
At F1.5, focus on the one blade cutting across the background:
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jmkelly
rangefinder user
Here is a test shot with the 1982 Valdai J-3 in its original LTM with a CV adapter on the R-D1; wide open at minimum distance. Focus was on the "C" on the middle can. I have not made any changes to this lens - it arrived properly shimmed for Leica back-focus.
My other two Valdai J-3's are just optics. I bought this 1984 optic module from Leon, dropped it into a spare Contax-mount Zeiss Sonnar shell; mounted on the R-D1 with an Amadeo adapter. Same wide open and minimum focus distance. Focus was on the "G" on the mug.
This next shot was made with the lens elements from a 1977 Valdai J-3, which I dropped into the optic module of a Contax-mount Zeiss Sonnar. The finished lens was shot on a Contax II; wide open and minimum distance on Kodak Gold 200. Focus was on my daughter's right eye.
The LTM from this 1977 J-3 now has a 1945 CZJ Sonnar optic module in it. I can't find any shots I made with this 1977 lens before hacking it for parts, but I recall it needed shimming. Here is a shot with the Zeiss hybrid, on Kodak BWCN 400 in a IIIf. I recall this was at f2. Focus was on my son's eye.
My other two Valdai J-3's are just optics. I bought this 1984 optic module from Leon, dropped it into a spare Contax-mount Zeiss Sonnar shell; mounted on the R-D1 with an Amadeo adapter. Same wide open and minimum focus distance. Focus was on the "G" on the mug.
This next shot was made with the lens elements from a 1977 Valdai J-3, which I dropped into the optic module of a Contax-mount Zeiss Sonnar. The finished lens was shot on a Contax II; wide open and minimum distance on Kodak Gold 200. Focus was on my daughter's right eye.
The LTM from this 1977 J-3 now has a 1945 CZJ Sonnar optic module in it. I can't find any shots I made with this 1977 lens before hacking it for parts, but I recall it needed shimming. Here is a shot with the Zeiss hybrid, on Kodak BWCN 400 in a IIIf. I recall this was at f2. Focus was on my son's eye.