physiognomy
Confirmed RF addict...
I just thought I'd start this thread to doccument & ask questions about my first serious fsu repair attempt... Apart from adjusting the rangefinder on my FED 5B I've really not had to do much to my various Kiev, FED, & Zorki's. I guess this was more through luck & choosing the right sellers than anything else, but I figured it was time to get my hands dirty.
Recently I bought a Kiev 2a here in RFF from Solinar (nice guy to deal with!) & have enjoyed using a non-metered kiev body. Almost immediately I knew that this one would be a keeper & not having seen too many 2a's around wondered what I would do if I ever needed parts. I guess it was a bit of a funny thought because there are so many 4's to be had, but a part of me likes to keep things original... Anyway, I saw a mislabeled listing for a 'parts Kiev 4' on ebay that was actually a 2a, so I picked it up fairly cheaply & my problem was solved.
Why I initially thought I'd just pack this 2a with it's stuck shutter away for latter is beyond me because before it even got here I was looking up the Kiev Survival Site & asking a question or two here... The camera has arrived now & while I think this project will take some time I am happy to say that I think I might be able to restore it to working order. Here is a list of the first obvious problems that I will have to fix (in the order I noticed them):
Some minor external 'corrosion' from being stored in it's ERC
Broken lens lock on helical (should be able to get one from a parts 4)
Lots of cleaning marks on front element of J8 (might send it to Arax for a recoat)
Very stiff aperture ring on the J8 (looks like I'm going to buy a lens spanner)
Missing screws on faceplate (another swap from a parts 4?)
Broken shutter ribbons
At the moment the list above is a little daunting (esp. the last one), but assuming nothing else is wrong with the shutter I think it should all be possible to fix myself. At the moment my motivation for the repair is being fuelled by a couple of good points:
The RF patch is as bright as I have ever seen in a Kiev
RF alignment seems right on
Helical is smooth & probably will be ok without a relube
ERC has older ??e? insignia on the front (they really made them well back then!)
Cosmetics pretty good overall for a camera made in 1957
Oh, and I saw an amazing '57 T-bird yesterday... definitely my favourite american classic car... I'm getting side tracked!
Here is a picture taken this morning after I removed the face plate (one of the masks was floating around loose in there) & the film plane casting to see what was up with the shutter. Not really a pretty sight at the moment, but I'm hoping in the next month or so I'll get enough time to restore it to working order. Any help/info/advice/encouragement is welcomed... I will post updates of any progress or setbacks, but for now I'm in search of some suitable shutter ribbon.
Cheers!
Peter
Recently I bought a Kiev 2a here in RFF from Solinar (nice guy to deal with!) & have enjoyed using a non-metered kiev body. Almost immediately I knew that this one would be a keeper & not having seen too many 2a's around wondered what I would do if I ever needed parts. I guess it was a bit of a funny thought because there are so many 4's to be had, but a part of me likes to keep things original... Anyway, I saw a mislabeled listing for a 'parts Kiev 4' on ebay that was actually a 2a, so I picked it up fairly cheaply & my problem was solved.
Why I initially thought I'd just pack this 2a with it's stuck shutter away for latter is beyond me because before it even got here I was looking up the Kiev Survival Site & asking a question or two here... The camera has arrived now & while I think this project will take some time I am happy to say that I think I might be able to restore it to working order. Here is a list of the first obvious problems that I will have to fix (in the order I noticed them):
Some minor external 'corrosion' from being stored in it's ERC
Broken lens lock on helical (should be able to get one from a parts 4)
Lots of cleaning marks on front element of J8 (might send it to Arax for a recoat)
Very stiff aperture ring on the J8 (looks like I'm going to buy a lens spanner)
Missing screws on faceplate (another swap from a parts 4?)
Broken shutter ribbons
At the moment the list above is a little daunting (esp. the last one), but assuming nothing else is wrong with the shutter I think it should all be possible to fix myself. At the moment my motivation for the repair is being fuelled by a couple of good points:
The RF patch is as bright as I have ever seen in a Kiev
RF alignment seems right on
Helical is smooth & probably will be ok without a relube
ERC has older ??e? insignia on the front (they really made them well back then!)
Cosmetics pretty good overall for a camera made in 1957
Oh, and I saw an amazing '57 T-bird yesterday... definitely my favourite american classic car... I'm getting side tracked!
Here is a picture taken this morning after I removed the face plate (one of the masks was floating around loose in there) & the film plane casting to see what was up with the shutter. Not really a pretty sight at the moment, but I'm hoping in the next month or so I'll get enough time to restore it to working order. Any help/info/advice/encouragement is welcomed... I will post updates of any progress or setbacks, but for now I'm in search of some suitable shutter ribbon.
Cheers!
Peter
physiognomy
Confirmed RF addict...
Xmas
Veteran
physio...
Suggest you need to work over a deep tray, (or buy a Dyson and a big magnet). And some pressure sensitive tape to keep the parts in a strip rebuild sequence.
You will need to remove the top plate to allow the shutter module to be removed from the main chassis, access is easier.
When you get the shutter out if you release the shutter tension I think you can replace the ribbons without distrubing the logic, otherwise putting it back together again is more difficult.
Paint the edges of the viewfinder cover glass and rangefinder cover glass with black board paint, they are easier to see afterwards, and also work better. if you lose you will need 2x2" slide glass and diamond cutter for near match.
Parts cameras are really cheap.
Buy a lens hood for the J8, dont worry about scratches it will still work ok. The J8 only needs small screwdriver set to strip, dont stress the grub screws they will fail like they are made of butter...
Dont flood with fine oil.
Brouse Russ Pinchbecks survivial site for details.
Noel
Suggest you need to work over a deep tray, (or buy a Dyson and a big magnet). And some pressure sensitive tape to keep the parts in a strip rebuild sequence.
You will need to remove the top plate to allow the shutter module to be removed from the main chassis, access is easier.
When you get the shutter out if you release the shutter tension I think you can replace the ribbons without distrubing the logic, otherwise putting it back together again is more difficult.
Paint the edges of the viewfinder cover glass and rangefinder cover glass with black board paint, they are easier to see afterwards, and also work better. if you lose you will need 2x2" slide glass and diamond cutter for near match.
Parts cameras are really cheap.
Buy a lens hood for the J8, dont worry about scratches it will still work ok. The J8 only needs small screwdriver set to strip, dont stress the grub screws they will fail like they are made of butter...
Dont flood with fine oil.
Brouse Russ Pinchbecks survivial site for details.
Noel
dexdog
Veteran
Phys, best of luck with this repair. I was never brave enough to tackle a Contax II shutter repair. The Kiev Survival Site looks like a great resource. Keep us up to date as you work on it.
fidget
Lemon magnet
From FED rangefinder adjustment to a Kiev shutter repair
In at the deep end, that's the way to learn.
Good luck and please keep us posted.
BTW what will you use for new ribbons?
Dave...
In at the deep end, that's the way to learn. Good luck and please keep us posted.
BTW what will you use for new ribbons?
Dave...
physiognomy
Confirmed RF addict...
Thanks guys, I appreciate your help/encouragement...
I'm not sure what I'll use for the shutter ribbons just yet. In another thread someone mentioned buying some from alex-photo & Russ' site mentions Oleg as a source. I do need a lens lock & a couple of screws (at least), so I have looked up parts bodies on ebay... Maybe I can salvage the ribbons from another camera? Not sure if that is just asking for trouble down the line though? Anyway, until I can find a Kiev with all the bits I need (ebay ones are missing the entire helicoid) I will keep looking.
Cheers!
Peter
-edit- Just found alex-photo's listing for 1m of shutter ribbon (click) It would cost me $13 just for the ribbon, so I'm going to write to him & ask if he has the other parts I need. Maybe I'll write to Oleg as well & compare prices...
-edit- Looked up Oleg's website (click) & found that he sells a foot of the same 'arsenal' ribbon for $6.50 or $20 per meter. I also found that alex-photo has a set of Kiev shutter curtains (with ribbons)...
I'm not sure what I'll use for the shutter ribbons just yet. In another thread someone mentioned buying some from alex-photo & Russ' site mentions Oleg as a source. I do need a lens lock & a couple of screws (at least), so I have looked up parts bodies on ebay... Maybe I can salvage the ribbons from another camera? Not sure if that is just asking for trouble down the line though? Anyway, until I can find a Kiev with all the bits I need (ebay ones are missing the entire helicoid) I will keep looking.
Cheers!
Peter
-edit- Just found alex-photo's listing for 1m of shutter ribbon (click) It would cost me $13 just for the ribbon, so I'm going to write to him & ask if he has the other parts I need. Maybe I'll write to Oleg as well & compare prices...
-edit- Looked up Oleg's website (click) & found that he sells a foot of the same 'arsenal' ribbon for $6.50 or $20 per meter. I also found that alex-photo has a set of Kiev shutter curtains (with ribbons)...
Last edited:
R
rpinchbeck
Guest
Phys, I haven't add this nugget of knoledge yet to the Kiev Survival Site, but I did find a good cheap source for ribbon. If you are man enough to walk into a fabrics and crafts store you can find the mother load. Jo-Ann Fabrics had a roll of ribbon that looks exactly like the Arsenal stuff. It is made by Offray called Simply Grosgrain. SKU # 7573801 (Not sure if Jo-Ann's has a similar stock number in all their locations.) The full UPC code is: 79856 42364.
At 99 cents for 6 yards you'll have a life's supply.
Good Luck!
At 99 cents for 6 yards you'll have a life's supply.
Good Luck!
V
varjag
Guest
Great news Russ! Does it seems resistant enough to wear in the shutter?
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
I have dealt with Alex-photo, bought a meter of that shutter ribbon from him(and some other things, like, plastic round lens hood for the jupi-8 type lenses). Excellent cheap material, excellent service.
Rick Oleson's site has good descriptions on the shutter ribbon replacement procedure. It helped me a lot.
Be patient with re-tensioning the shutter. Be prepared that it's a PITA. Don't drink coffee at least a few hours before attempting that.
Rick Oleson's site has good descriptions on the shutter ribbon replacement procedure. It helped me a lot.
Be patient with re-tensioning the shutter. Be prepared that it's a PITA. Don't drink coffee at least a few hours before attempting that.
ZeissFan
Veteran
You're going to have one hell of a time, because the tension has been lost on the lower spindle.
There are three springs inside the spindle, and what often happens is that when the tension is lost you try to reapply the tension and the springs inside can become horribly tangled.
If possible, find Rick Oleson's note on the Contax II (it's the same shutter). Once you get those new straps installed, it should run nicely.
Best of luck.
There are three springs inside the spindle, and what often happens is that when the tension is lost you try to reapply the tension and the springs inside can become horribly tangled.
If possible, find Rick Oleson's note on the Contax II (it's the same shutter). Once you get those new straps installed, it should run nicely.
Best of luck.
physiognomy
Confirmed RF addict...
rpinchbeck said:
Thanks Russ!!! I was thinking about checking out Michael's or JoAnn's, but from the number of people buying it from the Ukraine I assumed there was no acceptable substitute... I'll try to get there latter on this afternoon/tonight & post what I find.
I guess I'll have to dig out my man bag & get ready to face the dreaded cutting table line... JoAnn's is a bit of a joke among my friends. I had an incident where I lost my cool waiting for a foot of ribbon to be cut by the ladies who were more interested in seeing pix of other customers grand kiddies... Apparently the people at the checkout don't know how to use a pair of scissors! Live & learn I guess, but for the sake of the Kiev I will break my vow of never returning.
Cheers!
Peter
JohnM
Well-known
Shutter ribbon
Shutter ribbon
Fedka.com, out of NYC, sells the original Arsenal shutter ribbon -
Shutter Ribbon
Shutter ribbon
Fedka.com, out of NYC, sells the original Arsenal shutter ribbon -
Shutter Ribbon
physiognomy
Confirmed RF addict...
Thanks for the link John... One of the cool things about this forum is that we can pool all of this sort of info together.
Peter
Peter
physiognomy
Confirmed RF addict...
I managed to get some time tonight & called by a local Jo-Anne fabrics to look for the shutter ribbon Russ mentioned. Apparently the staff know it by “Grosgrain ribbon” & was taken straight to it by a very helpful lady. I was expecting it to be a little more robust, but it does have the sealed edges I noticed on the Arsenal ribbon & seems quite strong. For the price I'm definately a happy camper! Attached are some pics of the ribbon for reference.
Peter
Peter
Attachments
Last edited:
R
rpinchbeck
Guest
varjag said:
To be honest, I haven't replaced any ribbons with this stuff yet. All my cameras have good ribbon in them.
I do think I have a good candidate to try it out on. I have a Kiev 3 that is original and probably has it's first and only ribbons in it. Maybe a project to do this weekend to add some new content on the KSS with.
Cheers,
Xmas
Veteran
Russ & Peter
I'll try the haberdashers here with the bar code, thanks.
Please will either or both of you report on the life testing in situ of the new found ribbon?
Noel
Note for Russ lots of my Kievs are missing cover plates for range finder and view finder windows, Standard 2x2" slide glasses that I have tried have the same thickness of glass! What night time low temps are you getting?
I'll try the haberdashers here with the bar code, thanks.
Please will either or both of you report on the life testing in situ of the new found ribbon?
Noel
Note for Russ lots of my Kievs are missing cover plates for range finder and view finder windows, Standard 2x2" slide glasses that I have tried have the same thickness of glass! What night time low temps are you getting?
physiognomy
Confirmed RF addict...
Noel,
I'll definitely let you know how this material turns out in my camera... I wasn't well over the weekend, & haven't even attempted to remove the shutter assembly from the body yet... I know I intended to keep this 2a original, but I just bought a Kiev 4 for parts (click) & if the shutter works well my first move might be to swap out the shutters & then work on getting the ribons sorted. Once I have it up & running again (if I can) I will try to put the original one back in the 2a. My fingers are crossed!
Peter
I'll definitely let you know how this material turns out in my camera... I wasn't well over the weekend, & haven't even attempted to remove the shutter assembly from the body yet... I know I intended to keep this 2a original, but I just bought a Kiev 4 for parts (click) & if the shutter works well my first move might be to swap out the shutters & then work on getting the ribons sorted. Once I have it up & running again (if I can) I will try to put the original one back in the 2a. My fingers are crossed!
Peter
mjflory
Accumulator
Peter, the shutter repair is not impossible. I leapt into it as one of my first repairs as well. To my annoyance, I can't find the pictures I took during the procedure, but they are around and I'll look. Rick Oleson's notes and the Kiev Survival Site were invaluable, and I exchanged a couple of emails with Rick afterward about the repair and a couple of small differences I noted in the disassembly of my Kiev 2 and his notes on the Contax. (I had to disassemble the camera a little farther to get to the shutter mechanism. I'd even promised Rick I'd get together a little article on the process, and I haven't done it yet.)
Despite the warnings about using synthetic ribbons (which are said to stretch more than the original silk) I used a 1/8-inch (3mm) polyester ribbon from Offray, UPC 79856-33247, labeled "SPOOL O' RIBBON / MORE YARDAGE / MORE VALUE" -- it was on sale for 25 cents for a 10-yard spool, I think. Can't say how it will do in the long haul but it's worked very well so far (though I haven't used the camera too much pending fixing a light leak). Only one side was broken but I replaced both in the end, retightening the rollers with no problems (averaging Rick's and the Survival Site's recommendations on number of turns to give the spindles). Getting the ribbons attached to the shutter curtain itself was the hardest part, with the fine sewing required. I cheated on one side and just attached the ribbon to the remaining scrap of the original ribbon rather than sewing the difficult loop through the slot in the shutter, but I don't think I'd take that shortcut again. It did take a lot of patience to get both ribbons tightened the right amount and in position, and in the end I thought I'd probably ruined the camera. I put it together figuring I'd put it away for a while and straighten it out later, and to my utter astonishment when I'd reassembled it, it worked perfectly!
Good luck and good courage with the repair!
-- Michael
Despite the warnings about using synthetic ribbons (which are said to stretch more than the original silk) I used a 1/8-inch (3mm) polyester ribbon from Offray, UPC 79856-33247, labeled "SPOOL O' RIBBON / MORE YARDAGE / MORE VALUE" -- it was on sale for 25 cents for a 10-yard spool, I think. Can't say how it will do in the long haul but it's worked very well so far (though I haven't used the camera too much pending fixing a light leak). Only one side was broken but I replaced both in the end, retightening the rollers with no problems (averaging Rick's and the Survival Site's recommendations on number of turns to give the spindles). Getting the ribbons attached to the shutter curtain itself was the hardest part, with the fine sewing required. I cheated on one side and just attached the ribbon to the remaining scrap of the original ribbon rather than sewing the difficult loop through the slot in the shutter, but I don't think I'd take that shortcut again. It did take a lot of patience to get both ribbons tightened the right amount and in position, and in the end I thought I'd probably ruined the camera. I put it together figuring I'd put it away for a while and straighten it out later, and to my utter astonishment when I'd reassembled it, it worked perfectly!
Good luck and good courage with the repair!
-- Michael
physiognomy
Confirmed RF addict...
Thanks for the encouragement Michael! I have recieved my 'parts' Kiev 4 now, so I have everything I need to complete the job... To be honest, I'm glad I didn't buy a 4a for parts because I'm going to have a hard time cannabilizing this camera! The only things wrong with it is the broken glass for the rf & a non-working meter. Other than that it is a really nice camera! The winding mechanism isn't as smooth as my black '63 Kiev 4, but I think it will do nicely as a donor for the 2a until I get to fixing the original shutter.
I just had a thought... Are the shutters on the metered & non-metered Kievs interchangeable??? I just assumed they would be... I guess I'll find out.
Here's the parts body -
I have been pretty unwell in the last 2wks, so this isn't moving very fast at the moment. I seem to be on the mend, so hopefully sometime this week I'll actually get to working on this.
Thanks again,
Peter
I just had a thought... Are the shutters on the metered & non-metered Kievs interchangeable??? I just assumed they would be... I guess I'll find out.
Here's the parts body -
I have been pretty unwell in the last 2wks, so this isn't moving very fast at the moment. I seem to be on the mend, so hopefully sometime this week I'll actually get to working on this.
Thanks again,
Peter
rolleistef
Well-known
Shutters from metered and non metered camera are interchangeable, yes. What changes between, say, a 4 and 4a is the top. and you can switch from a 4 to a 4a and vice versa just by changing the top. Pretty cool isn't it?