dee
Well-known
Hi
I have to buy a Kiev ,
a ] to placate those who keep insisting it's great
b ] to find out what all the fuss is about
... though it looks like a brick to me !
But which version ?
I am told Kiev 2 , but don't want to outlay so much .
Oleg has serviced Kiev 4 and 4am [ early morning version ? ]
also J8 or Helios ?
Help !
dee-mented
I have to buy a Kiev ,
a ] to placate those who keep insisting it's great
b ] to find out what all the fuss is about
... though it looks like a brick to me !
But which version ?
I am told Kiev 2 , but don't want to outlay so much .
Oleg has serviced Kiev 4 and 4am [ early morning version ? ]
also J8 or Helios ?
Help !
dee-mented
lushd
Donald
Hi Dee - my opinion only - buy a serviced one. They are very smooth and quiet in operation. Your major decision is between the one with the light meter built in or not. There are views about some years being better made than others but I have owned a few and found them all to be fine.
Austintatious
Well-known
The 4AM has a rewind knob/lever that folds out somewhat like later Japanese cameras.
The 4A is a good old fashioned thumb knob like many other cameras have. The 4AM also has a fixed take up spool. Both are good shooters. The J8 is the classic lens. The H 103 is newer, a tad faster, some say a little sharper lens. Get them both!
The 4A is a good old fashioned thumb knob like many other cameras have. The 4AM also has a fixed take up spool. Both are good shooters. The J8 is the classic lens. The H 103 is newer, a tad faster, some say a little sharper lens. Get them both!
peterc
Heretic
I own Kiev 4, 4a and 4am models. All are good if you get one free of light leaks. My favourite of the batch is the 4a.
Peter
Peter
wolves3012
Veteran
Just my two - pennies worth...I have only a 4. Generally, opinion seems to be that the older ones are better made but the '75 I have seems reasonably sturdy. Go for a serviced one if possible, hopefully you won't get the frame-spacing problem or light leaks.
As regards metered or unmetered, a meter will fail sooner or later so I'd rather an unmetered (I inherited the metered one). In my experience the meter isn't trustworthy enough anyway; it isn't well shielded and is badly influenced by sky etc so I actually never rely on it. Overall, the "Contax grip" doesn't suit me so it's not my favourite RF but that's just my preference.
I have no experience of the Helios but the J-8 is a competent lens. The Helios ought to be better but I can't see it being a serious issue.
As regards metered or unmetered, a meter will fail sooner or later so I'd rather an unmetered (I inherited the metered one). In my experience the meter isn't trustworthy enough anyway; it isn't well shielded and is badly influenced by sky etc so I actually never rely on it. Overall, the "Contax grip" doesn't suit me so it's not my favourite RF but that's just my preference.
I have no experience of the Helios but the J-8 is a competent lens. The Helios ought to be better but I can't see it being a serious issue.
Valkir1987
Well-known
I have a Kiev 4 in Parts now waiting for another parts Kiev and a Jupiter 8 lens to finally build one of them. The rangefinder is great, it focusses very accurate. But when holding the camera you might block the rangefinder with one of your fingers.
The shutter has a complicated design, I still have to adjust the one I have. Although it is not a real Contax it is well built. I hope I get everything working properly in time, it's just another challenge
The shutter has a complicated design, I still have to adjust the one I have. Although it is not a real Contax it is well built. I hope I get everything working properly in time, it's just another challenge
R
ruben
Guest
dee said:
x) You don't "have to buy" any camera you are not attracted by. A Kiev? Naah.
a) Naaah, they don't know what are they talking.
b) Which fuss ?
y) A "brick" ? Yeah, a plain brick lacking any aesthetical appeal. Who knows better than an interior designer ?
Keep your sanity. Don't waist your money in bricks.
Cheers,
Ruben
ErnestoJL
Well-known
If you like it, buy it.
There is no other way to know if that camera would fit or not your needs.
My choice would be a 4 or 4a made before 1970.
Ernesto
There is no other way to know if that camera would fit or not your needs.
My choice would be a 4 or 4a made before 1970.
Ernesto
Didier
"Deed"
I you have a separate meter, then take a meterless Kiev - most of these old inbuilt meters aren't accurate anyway. The 4AM or 4M is the relatively newest model with a slightly improved windup wheel, and likely more lighttight than an older models. It is brick in terms of solidness, but it's typical low Contax profile makes it compact (and beautiful).
Didier
Didier
darkkavenger
Massimiliano Mortillaro
get a kiev -> you'll want an early model
get an early model -> you'll want a J-12 and a J-3
get a J-12 / J-3 -> you'll want a Contax body
get a Contax body -> you'll want a Biogon 35/2.8
[...] continue your "kiev story"
get an early model -> you'll want a J-12 and a J-3
get a J-12 / J-3 -> you'll want a Contax body
get a Contax body -> you'll want a Biogon 35/2.8
[...] continue your "kiev story"
dee
Well-known
Hmmm ... thanks , I think ... !!!
It is bad enough having Leica fever , but side-stepping to a Contax derivative seems to over-complicate matters !
dvd and soviet camera have a few Kievs , but are they really properly serviced , i wonder ... and all this is supposed to be just for fun ?
... and then there is the shadow of the Zorki 3 / 3m ... when a much cheaper , if cosmetically challenged Z3 s or early Z 4 [ hate the later coverings ] has the same spec ...
Maybe I will resist the Contax lure ...
... and buy a another early Fed 2 with collapsible lense - with REALLY nice case , and a Zorki 4 with a ''free '' silver J8 for my IIIc !!!
... and what can any of these babies do that my Leica IIIc and new black Jupiter 8 can do ?
... or my little Minolta SRs , for that matter ... but resistance seems to be futile ...
It is bad enough having Leica fever , but side-stepping to a Contax derivative seems to over-complicate matters !
dvd and soviet camera have a few Kievs , but are they really properly serviced , i wonder ... and all this is supposed to be just for fun ?
... and then there is the shadow of the Zorki 3 / 3m ... when a much cheaper , if cosmetically challenged Z3 s or early Z 4 [ hate the later coverings ] has the same spec ...
Maybe I will resist the Contax lure ...
... and buy a another early Fed 2 with collapsible lense - with REALLY nice case , and a Zorki 4 with a ''free '' silver J8 for my IIIc !!!
... and what can any of these babies do that my Leica IIIc and new black Jupiter 8 can do ?
... or my little Minolta SRs , for that matter ... but resistance seems to be futile ...
darkkavenger
Massimiliano Mortillaro
Trust me, once passing the step of adapting to your Kiev/Contax RF system, there is no turning back possible ...
max
max
TVphotog
Television Grunt
I have a kiev 3A (the metered one) Just bought a 2 (56 year with the foot) I couldn't resist. I like the brick look and feel. I learned on an Argus C3... I guess that is where the actual fondness for the brick aethesitics (spelling???) comes from. If you want a kiev to learn what all the 'fuss' is about, buy the serviced camera. It will yield a lot less hassles and a lot more enjoyment. YMMV
T
tedwhite
Guest
I've got the Kiev 4AM with both the J8 and the Helios 103. The camera has but one problem, and I can live with just one. Namely, on about the second or third frames the negs will touch - but not overlap - a major distinction. The rest of the frame spacing is spot on.
Feel like a brick?. Not to me. When I think of "brick" I think of Argus C3.
It's best to have both lenses. I have yet to use color film so I can't comment on how each lens treats colors, but each lens - in black and white - has endearing characteristics. The J8 is a bit softer in terms of contrast and can lend a old-timey look. The Helios 103 is very sharp and contrasty in comparison. I would get both as neither is very expensive. My Helios 103 is one of the newer black ones #8441783.
Ted
Feel like a brick?. Not to me. When I think of "brick" I think of Argus C3.
It's best to have both lenses. I have yet to use color film so I can't comment on how each lens treats colors, but each lens - in black and white - has endearing characteristics. The J8 is a bit softer in terms of contrast and can lend a old-timey look. The Helios 103 is very sharp and contrasty in comparison. I would get both as neither is very expensive. My Helios 103 is one of the newer black ones #8441783.
Ted
nzeeman
Well-known
get any meterless kiev - those with meters are sooo big - at least to me. if you are afraid of kiev not being properly serviced - wait for someone from rff who wants to sell his kiev and buy from him. i think people here sell only good stuff.
Xmas
Veteran
Dee
Ignoring the reliability issues
The Contax II and III are not much more expensive, but the lens may have been sandblasted, pre '43 non hard coated.
The change over points you may be interested in are
- '72 leather to leatherette
- '80 chrome, rewind knob and fixed take up spool, new technology lens
The pre '72 cameras are nicely finished, and could be mistaken for Contax, the leather is quite nice - in good condition cameras.
The post '80 have a poored chrome finish, but a better lens
Either lens will be as good or better then your J8 LTM.
The Kievs tend to have some problems like snapped ribbons or frame spacing, you have to live with these.
I'd not recommend you buy but you are going to ignore that arn't you...
Noel
I use two metered ones with chrome film they are ok.
Ignoring the reliability issues
The Contax II and III are not much more expensive, but the lens may have been sandblasted, pre '43 non hard coated.
The change over points you may be interested in are
- '72 leather to leatherette
- '80 chrome, rewind knob and fixed take up spool, new technology lens
The pre '72 cameras are nicely finished, and could be mistaken for Contax, the leather is quite nice - in good condition cameras.
The post '80 have a poored chrome finish, but a better lens
Either lens will be as good or better then your J8 LTM.
The Kievs tend to have some problems like snapped ribbons or frame spacing, you have to live with these.
I'd not recommend you buy but you are going to ignore that arn't you...
Noel
I use two metered ones with chrome film they are ok.
dee
Well-known
Guess I am gonna go for one - Kiev 4 from Oleg will be the starting point ... though I would love a Kiev 2 - it will eat into Fed / Zorki money !
dll927
Well-known
I have three - a 2, a 3, and a 4a. I think the 4a is the best looking one - it's the model without the meter. In any case, those were selenium meters that would very likely be out of whack and useless by now.
There are a number of websites on FSU cameras, and needless to say they mainly reflect their sponsors' preferences. But one thread does seem to keep showing up -- the Kievs prior to 1965 seem to be more highly regarded.
When I bought my 4a I got it from Yuri at Fedka in NYC. During the process, he e-mailed me and said the lens on the camera had "slight cleaning marks", so he was sending a 103. The camera soon arrived with BOTH lenses, which I thought was going the extra mile. He's had high regard from since then.
I've never seen anyone badmouth the Jupiter-8.
There are a number of websites on FSU cameras, and needless to say they mainly reflect their sponsors' preferences. But one thread does seem to keep showing up -- the Kievs prior to 1965 seem to be more highly regarded.
When I bought my 4a I got it from Yuri at Fedka in NYC. During the process, he e-mailed me and said the lens on the camera had "slight cleaning marks", so he was sending a 103. The camera soon arrived with BOTH lenses, which I thought was going the extra mile. He's had high regard from since then.
I've never seen anyone badmouth the Jupiter-8.
dee
Well-known
Thanks , but Yuri becomes expensive when taxes are added to Uk .... anyone know anything about ''sovietcamera '' ? Several cla Kievs for sale .
I seem to favour the meterless 4a ... the three looks top heavy - bigger meter ?
But the 2 is simple .
As for J8 , my new Leica mount one is excellent , so I am not concerned which lense it comes with .
dee
I seem to favour the meterless 4a ... the three looks top heavy - bigger meter ?
But the 2 is simple .
As for J8 , my new Leica mount one is excellent , so I am not concerned which lense it comes with .
dee
dee
Well-known
I have deecided , quite illogically , to buy the best / cost effective Kiev 2 that I can find , serviced or otherwise - because , finding a serviced one is a nightmre !
I will anticipate a '' sending '' to Oleg / OK photocameras in the future - so I get another package tied up with string !
I just can't get excited over the top heavy meter models !
I will anticipate a '' sending '' to Oleg / OK photocameras in the future - so I get another package tied up with string !
I just can't get excited over the top heavy meter models !