lencap
Established
Thanks again to all for the past advice. I've committed to a M7, my first Leica ever. I haven't yet purchased the appropriate lenses for an upcoming trip and need some advice.
I am travelling to the Tuscany region of Italy in late fall. I also plan to be in Rome, where I hope to visit several "tourist" locations. I want to shoot church interiors, without flash, and landscapes as well as candid "people" shots wherever I may be.
I came across some photos of Tuscany that were taken by a fine photographer and his photos are available here: http://www.pbase.com/alekhine/one_day_in_tuscany His camera is a Canon D1s-II and his lenses are two wide angle zooms and a 70-200, all L glass.
I want to be able to take similar shots I'm told that Leica isn't the right tool for landscape, especially on the longer focal lengths. I'm sure that in the world of Leica there are some highly skilled landscape photographers, and I need your help to tell me if the Leica is up to the challenge. I also want to shoot in low light churches and welcome thoughts about the right setup for such shots.
My question - can I duplicate the effect and composition of the photos listed above with any Leica lenses, or any other manufacturer? If so, what lenses wiil I need.
My requirements for a travel camera is basically light weight and few accessories. My wife in not a camera person, doesn't like "posing" for pictures and basically doesn't want the vacation to become a photo-shoot. For those reasons I am very comfortable with the M7, but the budding photographer in me wants to be able to take well composed and vibrant landscapes, very much in the feeling of the pictures I've highlighted in the above link. I also don't want to have to lug a tripod around when I'm basically touring the country, and another concern, although not the top of my list, is having that big red dot announcing Leica visible all over a country that I've never visited before. I'm not anticipating theft, but I've been in some places in my life that being prepared avoided potential problems.
Is there a single camera (M7) solution, or will I need to consider a digital alternative? By the way my wife has eagle eyes, she sees artifacts in our HDTV that are so distracting that I purchased a Sony Tube HDTV (get them while you can they are no longer made - KV-34XBR90 - highly recommended and far less digital artifacts than plasma or LCD). See saw the digital images I referred to on this post and she immediately saw artifacts, inconsistancies in color and resolution and other things that my eye just doesn't see. Another vote for analog film, at least to her.
Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks in advance.
I am travelling to the Tuscany region of Italy in late fall. I also plan to be in Rome, where I hope to visit several "tourist" locations. I want to shoot church interiors, without flash, and landscapes as well as candid "people" shots wherever I may be.
I came across some photos of Tuscany that were taken by a fine photographer and his photos are available here: http://www.pbase.com/alekhine/one_day_in_tuscany His camera is a Canon D1s-II and his lenses are two wide angle zooms and a 70-200, all L glass.
I want to be able to take similar shots I'm told that Leica isn't the right tool for landscape, especially on the longer focal lengths. I'm sure that in the world of Leica there are some highly skilled landscape photographers, and I need your help to tell me if the Leica is up to the challenge. I also want to shoot in low light churches and welcome thoughts about the right setup for such shots.
My question - can I duplicate the effect and composition of the photos listed above with any Leica lenses, or any other manufacturer? If so, what lenses wiil I need.
My requirements for a travel camera is basically light weight and few accessories. My wife in not a camera person, doesn't like "posing" for pictures and basically doesn't want the vacation to become a photo-shoot. For those reasons I am very comfortable with the M7, but the budding photographer in me wants to be able to take well composed and vibrant landscapes, very much in the feeling of the pictures I've highlighted in the above link. I also don't want to have to lug a tripod around when I'm basically touring the country, and another concern, although not the top of my list, is having that big red dot announcing Leica visible all over a country that I've never visited before. I'm not anticipating theft, but I've been in some places in my life that being prepared avoided potential problems.
Is there a single camera (M7) solution, or will I need to consider a digital alternative? By the way my wife has eagle eyes, she sees artifacts in our HDTV that are so distracting that I purchased a Sony Tube HDTV (get them while you can they are no longer made - KV-34XBR90 - highly recommended and far less digital artifacts than plasma or LCD). See saw the digital images I referred to on this post and she immediately saw artifacts, inconsistancies in color and resolution and other things that my eye just doesn't see. Another vote for analog film, at least to her.
Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks in advance.
boilerdoc2
Well-known
Yes, shoot the finest grain film that you can. Tmax 100, Ilford Delta 100 or Fuji Acros. Brace the camera well as you'll need a smaller depth of field for landscape work. You'll have sharp (very sharp) negs with very fine grain. Can enlarge easily to 11X14.
Steve
Steve
waileong
Well-known
Landscape pictures don't come by accident. You have to wait for great light, climb to great vistas and use filters (eg polarizers) to get what you want. If your wife is willing to put up with all that (rather than just posing 2 mins in front of your camera), then the M7 can do the job. I would still recommend a tripod though, to get maximum depth of field.
mervynyan
Mervyn Yan
you should carry a tripod, that is the minimum for landscape.
don't know what lens you have but long lens is pretty much out. i'd suggest you go high and use 28, even 50 on color slides would do fine.
don't know what lens you have but long lens is pretty much out. i'd suggest you go high and use 28, even 50 on color slides would do fine.
Artorius
Caribbean Traveler
Tripod/Mono-pod minimum if looking to stitch panoramas. With a 15-28 you should be fine for single wide angle shots, but I would still recommend a mono-pod. Just makes things a constant.
Avotius
Some guy
I am a great fan for the 35mm and 50mm focal lengths for everything, 50 can be a great landscape lens when you just want something and not everything, also 35 is a fantastic landscape and do everything lens.
mfogiel
Veteran
The shots you are referring to, have been made mostly with the 70-200 early in the morning or late in the afternoon. Tuscany is not a desert, so you will have to isolate these vistas. I'd say a 90mm Elmarit or summicron are a must, a 50mm as good as you can get, and then at least an 28mm or 24mm if you can afford, for the interiors.
Get a light Gitzo basalt tripod, it is less expensive than carbon but works very well.
Don't forget the cable release. Fuji Velvia for colour, and for b&w, it depends if you scan or print in a darkroom - in the first case xp2, in the second case you might try adox (see Erwin Puts site).
Then, you might consider, that Cartier Bresson took lots of landscapes handheld with a Tri X or equivalent b&w film, but his landscapes are more about people in nature, and not so much about landscape on its own.
To wrap up, for travelling light and getting first rate images, a Leica is a perfect tool, but your shooting style has to adapt in order to maximize the results.
Get a light Gitzo basalt tripod, it is less expensive than carbon but works very well.
Don't forget the cable release. Fuji Velvia for colour, and for b&w, it depends if you scan or print in a darkroom - in the first case xp2, in the second case you might try adox (see Erwin Puts site).
Then, you might consider, that Cartier Bresson took lots of landscapes handheld with a Tri X or equivalent b&w film, but his landscapes are more about people in nature, and not so much about landscape on its own.
To wrap up, for travelling light and getting first rate images, a Leica is a perfect tool, but your shooting style has to adapt in order to maximize the results.
sirius
Well-known
The telephoto quality of flattening space is really obvious in that photo gallery. If that is what you would like, there are some options for the M7 like a 135mm lens. Many landscape photographers like the ultrawide lenses, most likely the Voightlander because of price. I'm not used to a 35mm focal length (it may very well be the ideal comprimise), but if you wanted a versatile walk around kit I would take a 50 and a 28. I love the 28 on the street and indoors. The 50 easily isolates a subject without choking it.
I have trouble with tele lenses because I like relating to things that I'm seeing. When you look through a 135mm it is closer detail than I'm actually noticing with my eyes. I find I have to always have the camera to my eye to properly visualize how the shot will turn out and I'm not fond of that.
I have trouble with tele lenses because I like relating to things that I'm seeing. When you look through a 135mm it is closer detail than I'm actually noticing with my eyes. I find I have to always have the camera to my eye to properly visualize how the shot will turn out and I'm not fond of that.
aizan
Veteran
i much prefer the approach meyerowitz took. his tuscany photos are terrific, and they can be achieved with any moderately wide lens, i.e. 35mm equivalent. you can do this the hard way (leica m7 + 35mm summicron + tripod) or the easy way (fuji ga645 or bronica rf645).
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
aizan said:
Totally agree. I was about to write exactly the same.
Go to Amazon and get the book. Today.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
An afterthought
Also look out for a book 'Magnum Landscape'. I think most of those photographers used 35mm film. (And it's an inexpensive book too.)
Also look out for a book 'Magnum Landscape'. I think most of those photographers used 35mm film. (And it's an inexpensive book too.)
sirius
Well-known
Some of those Meyerowitz photos can be seen here:
http://www.joelmeyerowitz.com/photography/book_1_pics.asp?bookvar=1
http://www.joelmeyerowitz.com/photography/book_1_pics.asp?bookvar=1
R
rpsawin
Guest
Lencap,
There are two classic leica travel kits:
35 & 90
35, 50 & 90
Depending on the depth of your wallet you might want to look at the two leica tri-elmar lenses. The first one is a 28-35-50 combination and the new wide angle lens of 16-18-21 (new lens comes with a combi-viewfinder). The tri-elmars are very good performers although the individual prime lenses out perform them.
You could cover all the bases getting the wide angle tri-elmar, the tri-elmar and a 90. I personally think the 135mm is marginal on a rangefinder.
Good luck,
Bob
There are two classic leica travel kits:
35 & 90
35, 50 & 90
Depending on the depth of your wallet you might want to look at the two leica tri-elmar lenses. The first one is a 28-35-50 combination and the new wide angle lens of 16-18-21 (new lens comes with a combi-viewfinder). The tri-elmars are very good performers although the individual prime lenses out perform them.
You could cover all the bases getting the wide angle tri-elmar, the tri-elmar and a 90. I personally think the 135mm is marginal on a rangefinder.
Good luck,
Bob
lencap
Established
Thanks - Lots of very useful information
Thanks - Lots of very useful information
Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions. I've ordered the recommended book, and enjoyed viewing the suggested sites.
Still trying to get more informed about Leica. As I mentioned, I'm very new to Leica (three days) and it's a lot different from my "old" 35 SLR experience. With my Nikon gear I'd just add a telephoto and be done with it. But in 30+ years of Nikon use I have lots of pictures, but not many are memorable. Turns out I didn't carry it with me because of bulk. That's the primary motivation for the Leica.
Your comments will help me to gain the confidence about how to properly use my new tool.
I am still stuggling with the lenses. Many people seem to find the CV lenses excellent and relative bargains. I am financially challenged and any lens investment is signficant for me. That's why I'm having difficulty. In the Nikon days I lived with the 50mm lense, didn't own a 35. In Leica seems like everyone uses the 35 as a standard lens, and the 50 is less poplular. Investing in a Summicron f/2.0 35mm is quite a step for me, so I am taking my time to determine the best combination of lenses versus quality.
What also bother me is the 35mm format itself. No matter how good the lens, most 35mm shots I've seen start to fade after about 11X17 size. The idea of medium format is something I've considered as well, but the cost of adding another format, coupled with the added bulk, makes me tilt back to the Leica. Your experiences are very helpful in my continued confusion over the right format. Incidentally, my first camera lust was a Hasselblad, 35 years ago. Never had the money to buy it, and now I'm torn between it and Leica - two very different formats and cameras.
Thanks again, and keep the comments coming.
Thanks - Lots of very useful information
Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions. I've ordered the recommended book, and enjoyed viewing the suggested sites.
Still trying to get more informed about Leica. As I mentioned, I'm very new to Leica (three days) and it's a lot different from my "old" 35 SLR experience. With my Nikon gear I'd just add a telephoto and be done with it. But in 30+ years of Nikon use I have lots of pictures, but not many are memorable. Turns out I didn't carry it with me because of bulk. That's the primary motivation for the Leica.
Your comments will help me to gain the confidence about how to properly use my new tool.
I am still stuggling with the lenses. Many people seem to find the CV lenses excellent and relative bargains. I am financially challenged and any lens investment is signficant for me. That's why I'm having difficulty. In the Nikon days I lived with the 50mm lense, didn't own a 35. In Leica seems like everyone uses the 35 as a standard lens, and the 50 is less poplular. Investing in a Summicron f/2.0 35mm is quite a step for me, so I am taking my time to determine the best combination of lenses versus quality.
What also bother me is the 35mm format itself. No matter how good the lens, most 35mm shots I've seen start to fade after about 11X17 size. The idea of medium format is something I've considered as well, but the cost of adding another format, coupled with the added bulk, makes me tilt back to the Leica. Your experiences are very helpful in my continued confusion over the right format. Incidentally, my first camera lust was a Hasselblad, 35 years ago. Never had the money to buy it, and now I'm torn between it and Leica - two very different formats and cameras.
Thanks again, and keep the comments coming.
oscroft
Veteran
My new Leica M6 only has CV lenses to go with it (six of them, with a seventh on the way), and they really are excellent. (I expect I'll try a Leica lens some day, just to see - but some day quite far in the future when I can afford to buy one). Starting out with your M7, I think getting a couple of CV lenses would be a very good first move (maybe a 35/2.5 and a 75, or maybe just get a 35 for starters?) - you'll get hands-on experience of Leica-shooting for a very good price, and if you want to trade them up for Leica lenses later you'll still get a reasonable amount of money back from them.
OBRYK
Oliver
On a 6-week trip in northern Italy I used the 24mm-M in almost every urban setting - most of the villages have steep, narrow streets - and the 35mm and 50mm Summicron-Ms in most other situations. My film of choice for overseas travel is Agfa Optima 100. I do not even attempt to photograph in low light situations; I can buy much better postcards. Tripods are prohibited in many crowded interior locations.
I have used an M6/0.85 for over 10 years for landscape photography.
I have used an M6/0.85 for over 10 years for landscape photography.
andreas
i am not digital.
I think any Leica can be a perfect tool for landscape photography. Personally, i don`t use a tripod. The shots you pointed out mostly seem to be tele shots, so i would look out for a 90mm lens, minimum. I`m more of a wideangle guy and strongly recommend the CV lenses. The 21, 25 and 3,5/28 are truly great, small and quite affordable.
Hope this is helpful and lots of fun on your trip,
andreas
www.myspace.com/tiredmusik
Hope this is helpful and lots of fun on your trip,
andreas
www.myspace.com/tiredmusik
peter_n
Veteran
I do think you need a tripod. You can take decent landscapes with a 35mm camera but if you are going to make significant print sizes then you need the best lens(es) you can afford. So I would say forget the M7, get a used Gitzo tripod and a used CV Bessa camera and spend your money on glass. Also the suggestion of using Fuuji Acros 100 is a good one, it's an excellent fine grain film.
mfogiel
Veteran
If we really want to start with the basics, you should say how do you intend to print - from your own scans, or from your own darkroom, or through a lab ?
In the last case, your best choice would be Velvia or Provia slides, if you have a wet darkroom low speed silver based film would be king, if you scan and print digitally, fuji reala or xp2 would give the best results. I have taken some shots with xp2 handheld, or with a camera resting on something and fired with self release timer, on xp2, and the scans are good enough for an A2 print that has lots of detail.
(You can see an example here:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=484285019&context=set-72157600129345564&size=l)
The caveat ? A good lens. However, at f8 most modern lenses are good enough, but this means the tripod could be mandatory...
I have various Hasselblad cameras, but I do not dare take them out without a tripod, and not for all day's walking in any case, so you can really relax on this point. My next high quality film rig is a Nikon FM3A with Zeiss ZF lenses, but I have tried recently a Bessa R4A with a Leica WA lens, and it is really much more portable.
It might be an idea actually, to fit your Leica with a nice 25mm Voigtlander ( or Zeiss) lens to start with, and bring your Nikon along with a 50mm and a tele lens for the longer perspective, this way you can be more flexible and also you can afford to shoot with 2 different films at the same time.
It will take you some time to find the best set up and workflow, don't narrow your options too much right away. Go , shoot and see what works best for you.
In the last case, your best choice would be Velvia or Provia slides, if you have a wet darkroom low speed silver based film would be king, if you scan and print digitally, fuji reala or xp2 would give the best results. I have taken some shots with xp2 handheld, or with a camera resting on something and fired with self release timer, on xp2, and the scans are good enough for an A2 print that has lots of detail.
(You can see an example here:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=484285019&context=set-72157600129345564&size=l)
The caveat ? A good lens. However, at f8 most modern lenses are good enough, but this means the tripod could be mandatory...
I have various Hasselblad cameras, but I do not dare take them out without a tripod, and not for all day's walking in any case, so you can really relax on this point. My next high quality film rig is a Nikon FM3A with Zeiss ZF lenses, but I have tried recently a Bessa R4A with a Leica WA lens, and it is really much more portable.
It might be an idea actually, to fit your Leica with a nice 25mm Voigtlander ( or Zeiss) lens to start with, and bring your Nikon along with a 50mm and a tele lens for the longer perspective, this way you can be more flexible and also you can afford to shoot with 2 different films at the same time.
It will take you some time to find the best set up and workflow, don't narrow your options too much right away. Go , shoot and see what works best for you.
P
Paul Connet
Guest
Landscape Master
Landscape Master
Here is a link to a photosite by a man that calls himself GeeBee, and has for a few years blessed those of us that frequent the LUG forum and the OM list, with weekly posts of mostly landscape shots taken with Leica M's and for the OM list with Olympus cameras. He is a master of the landscape, both color and b&w. Most of his shot are with normal or wide angle lenses, including the ultra wides from Cosina.
Take a look for a real feast of landscape:
http://www.geebeephoto.com/
Regards, Paul C.
Landscape Master
Here is a link to a photosite by a man that calls himself GeeBee, and has for a few years blessed those of us that frequent the LUG forum and the OM list, with weekly posts of mostly landscape shots taken with Leica M's and for the OM list with Olympus cameras. He is a master of the landscape, both color and b&w. Most of his shot are with normal or wide angle lenses, including the ultra wides from Cosina.
Take a look for a real feast of landscape:
http://www.geebeephoto.com/
Regards, Paul C.