dreilly
Chillin' in Geneva
I'm doing a shoot out to see who stays, and who goes. This could be a reality TV show (albeit a boring one). But as a thread, it might be okay.
Leitz Minolta CL and Rokkor 40/2
Hexar AF (35/2)
Initial impressions
Finders:
The finders in both are nice. The CL shows more information (shutter speeds) and seems to be easier to see the whole field with my glasses on. Might be the magnification difference. Suprised me because the Hexar's finder is so much larger.
Ergonomics:
The CL feels natural though I'll have to learn to use my left hand more to focus and change aperture. I think I used to do everything with my right hand on my slr, and just hold it with my left. I like where the shutter speed dial is placed....though I do with is turned a little easier. Think my pointer finger would get all beefy using this for a while.
The shutter release on the Cl is better placed for me. On the hexar it's a little too close to the right side. So the aperture wheel (which surrounds the shutter releases) is a little too close as well on the hexar.
I love the film advance on the CL. I don't like the film advance on the Hexar. Oh, that's right, no film advance. I like doing that bit of work myself.
In general the Hexar feels larger and heavier. It is larger, not sure about heavier. But it feels it. It's also easier to shoot with in terms of needing only one hand.
Interface:
The CL has the classic metered-manual interface which I'm used to. The Hexar has buttons and a cheat-sheet to keep track of all the functions. Admittedly, most won't ever be used. The Hexar would be faster on the draw, basically being a point and shoot if you want it to. The CL requires more attention to detail when shooting, which could slow one down. The Hexar might be better at taking pictures of my daughter since she's a two-year old...
In terms of P and A modes, I like the Hexar and think it's special. The aperture priority mode keeps the shutter open as long as it takes at the given aperture.
The P mode is something else though. It's basically an A-mode with provisos. It'll match the aperture you set, unless it can't. If you set it for f2, it'll give you that unless, say, it's too bright for the maximum shutter speed of 250, or too dim for the (setable) minimim shutter speed (called "camera shake speed"). In the first case, it'll keep the aperture as open as it can at 1/250. That's pretty cool. If you hit the maximum shutter speed, it'll still take the picture, but it'll be underexposed. Better to use the straight A-mode in that case.
The same for the other end. At f22 it'll try to match that, if not, it'll keep the aperture as closed as possible. So it really is a guided Program mode. Very cool.
The CL, however, has a kind of A mode, too, which is its well-placed shutter speed dial that encourages changing that instead of its aperture.
Coming up: sample shots, other observations from use.
After that, a FS post in the classifieds!
Others that have the same cameras, how do they compare to you?
Leitz Minolta CL and Rokkor 40/2
Hexar AF (35/2)
Initial impressions
Finders:
The finders in both are nice. The CL shows more information (shutter speeds) and seems to be easier to see the whole field with my glasses on. Might be the magnification difference. Suprised me because the Hexar's finder is so much larger.
Ergonomics:
The CL feels natural though I'll have to learn to use my left hand more to focus and change aperture. I think I used to do everything with my right hand on my slr, and just hold it with my left. I like where the shutter speed dial is placed....though I do with is turned a little easier. Think my pointer finger would get all beefy using this for a while.
The shutter release on the Cl is better placed for me. On the hexar it's a little too close to the right side. So the aperture wheel (which surrounds the shutter releases) is a little too close as well on the hexar.
I love the film advance on the CL. I don't like the film advance on the Hexar. Oh, that's right, no film advance. I like doing that bit of work myself.
In general the Hexar feels larger and heavier. It is larger, not sure about heavier. But it feels it. It's also easier to shoot with in terms of needing only one hand.
Interface:
The CL has the classic metered-manual interface which I'm used to. The Hexar has buttons and a cheat-sheet to keep track of all the functions. Admittedly, most won't ever be used. The Hexar would be faster on the draw, basically being a point and shoot if you want it to. The CL requires more attention to detail when shooting, which could slow one down. The Hexar might be better at taking pictures of my daughter since she's a two-year old...
In terms of P and A modes, I like the Hexar and think it's special. The aperture priority mode keeps the shutter open as long as it takes at the given aperture.
The P mode is something else though. It's basically an A-mode with provisos. It'll match the aperture you set, unless it can't. If you set it for f2, it'll give you that unless, say, it's too bright for the maximum shutter speed of 250, or too dim for the (setable) minimim shutter speed (called "camera shake speed"). In the first case, it'll keep the aperture as open as it can at 1/250. That's pretty cool. If you hit the maximum shutter speed, it'll still take the picture, but it'll be underexposed. Better to use the straight A-mode in that case.
The same for the other end. At f22 it'll try to match that, if not, it'll keep the aperture as closed as possible. So it really is a guided Program mode. Very cool.
The CL, however, has a kind of A mode, too, which is its well-placed shutter speed dial that encourages changing that instead of its aperture.
Coming up: sample shots, other observations from use.
After that, a FS post in the classifieds!
Others that have the same cameras, how do they compare to you?
FrankS
Registered User
I have both cameras and they are totally different animals. They bring different strengths to the table. Which one to keep would depend on which cameras you already have. Keep the one that is most different from what you have. For example, if you already have a Contax G or G2, keep the CL (for manual control and focusing). If you have a Leica M3, keep the Hexar AF (for auto exposure and focus). If you have only fixed lens RF cameras, keep the CL for the lens changeability. Ideally, keep both. They would make an awesome pair on their own, together.
dreilly
Chillin' in Geneva
The differences are puart of the fun of this game. But I'm only going to keep one camera. Sacriledge, I know. But the TLR doens't get much use, and my first SLR (Topcon D) I keep only for sentimental reasons. It's as big as a Sherman Tank. So this is the race for my only shooter, the camera I will finish film out with (which I think is coming in the next decade or two). I want to enjoy the ride, take nice shots and have a camera I can get to know and rely on.
FrankS
Registered User
If you can live with just the (great) 35mm lens on the Hexar then that could be your choice. If you want the option of wider or longer lenses, then the CL is the obvious one.
DwF
Well-known
Hexar offers a great viewfinder with electronic parallax correction,more sophisticated metering, and shutter speeds in 1/3rd stop increments which combined with A mode allows for incredible accuracy not to mention it's quiet and quick. Built in lens hood on a lens comparable to 4th gen Summicron makes for a great camera. Also the close focus allows for the ability to use shallow dof (whether too close distorts portrait shots with 35 angle I find subjective. This close focus and f2 put the Hexar at least for me in another league from the Contax T cameras.
The CL certainly has it's charm too but with the dropping prices on M2s those make more sense to me than a CL. There are great little meters available like the CV or a digital 308 or Luna Pro. The nice thing about external meter is that you can (especially shooting B&W) get a basic meter reading and then set focus and exposure without raising the camera to eyelevel. This is good for discreet street shooting.
My two cents. Currently I have M2 and Hexar and find they compliment each other really well.
The CL certainly has it's charm too but with the dropping prices on M2s those make more sense to me than a CL. There are great little meters available like the CV or a digital 308 or Luna Pro. The nice thing about external meter is that you can (especially shooting B&W) get a basic meter reading and then set focus and exposure without raising the camera to eyelevel. This is good for discreet street shooting.
My two cents. Currently I have M2 and Hexar and find they compliment each other really well.
Paul T.
Veteran
I have both and think they're terrific. Overall, I would say if you're trying to be draconian and want to cut down on your gear, keep the Hexar, as you'll never be tempted to splash out for another lens.
Personally, I've got much better photos out of the Hexar, but I do often use the CL when I;m wandering out to a streetmarket, say - the fact it's smaller is a real plus. But when I'm shooting indoors, particularly reportage -style in constantly changing light conditions, it's the Hexar every time.
Personally, I've got much better photos out of the Hexar, but I do often use the CL when I;m wandering out to a streetmarket, say - the fact it's smaller is a real plus. But when I'm shooting indoors, particularly reportage -style in constantly changing light conditions, it's the Hexar every time.
dreilly
Chillin' in Geneva
Just got back from a little test shoot. This is wierd: the CL and Hexar don't agree on the meter readings. I think the Cl is underexposing. Could be the 625A battery? But that should put it a half stop off. The CL seemed more than a few stops off. Or the Hexar is messed. But it's meter seems to make more sense for indoor 100ASA shooting. Hmmm. Somebody need a CLA around here?
FrankS
Registered User
It's not surprizing that the CL meter is wonky after so many years. It is a known weak point of this camera.
aizan
Veteran
lol, just came across this book cover.
i would go with the hexar as it has af, a capability i'm guessing you don't have (?).
i would go with the hexar as it has af, a capability i'm guessing you don't have (?).
Borghesia
Well-known
I only have the Hexar AF so I can't compare with the CL.
The big plus with the Hexar to me is the outstanding flashsystem, which I trust time and time again. I find it even better than the sophisticated EOS TTL system, which is harsh in comparison to the subtility of the Hexar's. The metering is also outstanding with the Hexar, sometimes I wonder why it chooses a certain combination but it turns out to be always the right choice.
The big plus with the Hexar to me is the outstanding flashsystem, which I trust time and time again. I find it even better than the sophisticated EOS TTL system, which is harsh in comparison to the subtility of the Hexar's. The metering is also outstanding with the Hexar, sometimes I wonder why it chooses a certain combination but it turns out to be always the right choice.
laptoprob
back to basics
Sell both and get a CLE!
Excellent if you want to use flash, intuitive controls, great meter.
And AE for (lowlight) fast action.
Big negative on the Hexar AF: Min. shutter 1/250 sec!
CLE or a Hexar RF.
Changeable lenses is kinda nice, to make an understatement.
Excellent if you want to use flash, intuitive controls, great meter.
And AE for (lowlight) fast action.
Big negative on the Hexar AF: Min. shutter 1/250 sec!
CLE or a Hexar RF.
Changeable lenses is kinda nice, to make an understatement.
FrankS
Registered User
Does the CLE function without batteries? (The CL does, the Hexar AF doesn't.)
aizan
Veteran
but no ae lock 
laptoprob
back to basics
The CLE does not function without batteries. But, it takes extremely long to get them empty. Until then it works miracles.
Indeed, no AE lock. The 'real' Hexar does. That one is also dead without batteries.
That's also why I have a Bessa T and a M2.
But, If i keep on liking the Hexar like I am doing now, the M2 may go. Not sure yet. Oldfashioned craftmanship and engineering is a class of its own.
Indeed, no AE lock. The 'real' Hexar does. That one is also dead without batteries.
That's also why I have a Bessa T and a M2.
But, If i keep on liking the Hexar like I am doing now, the M2 may go. Not sure yet. Oldfashioned craftmanship and engineering is a class of its own.
Guy Mann
Member
I just got a Hexar AF 2 days ago but I've wanted one for many years. Seems to me that it would be far easier to find another camera to do exactly what the CL does than to find another camera that will do exactly what the Hexar does. I'm sure it depends partially on what type of photography you do but as an aspiring street photographer there doesn't seem to be another tool quite like the Hexar AF in existance.
laptoprob
back to basics
Very true. The Hexar is unique in speed, lens quality and silence.
I just found it too automatic for me. I like a little more direct control, but I am long-time used to Minoltas, so heavily biased.
I just found it too automatic for me. I like a little more direct control, but I am long-time used to Minoltas, so heavily biased.
> be far easier to find another camera to do exactly what the CL does
Unless you also consider the size of the camera. I don't know too many other 35mm cameras that take interchangeable lenses that are as small as the CL. Its kind of like saying the Konica is an AF point&Shoot and there are tons of those around.
These cameras complement each other well. Why sell Either? But if you want to sell the Konica, Joe has been talking about getting one.
Unless you also consider the size of the camera. I don't know too many other 35mm cameras that take interchangeable lenses that are as small as the CL. Its kind of like saying the Konica is an AF point&Shoot and there are tons of those around.
These cameras complement each other well. Why sell Either? But if you want to sell the Konica, Joe has been talking about getting one.
R
Roman
Guest
I tend to agree with Brian - you are going to be hard pressed to find another exchangeable-lens RF as small as the CL (even a lot of fixed-lens ones are larger), whereas concept-wise, there are quite a few options similar to the Hexar: Contax T2/T3, G1, G2, Nikon 35TI, Minolta TC1, Ricoh GR1 (though this one has a slightly wider lens), Leica Minilux (I haven't used any of those personally, but they seem rather similar to the Hexar on paper: good lenses, automatic shooting, but with some manual correction options).
Roman
Roman
aizan
Veteran
those are also good p&s, but the hexar really stands above as a discreet, low light camera. unfussy.
dreilly
Chillin' in Geneva
Well, I dropped off three rolls of Provia 100 at Eckerd's today. Why three? I found one of Fran's (batteryadapter guy from Netherlands) adapters for silver oxide batteries and put that in the CL. Indeed, the meter was reading about a stop lower. So I wanted to shoot some with that. I compared the CL to the Hexar and sometimes they agreed, sometimes they were pretty off. Could it be that CL has uneven unreliability in its meter, perhaps that it reads too much light at the lower/dimmer end of the EV range? That's where it seemed to be inaccurate.
Well, 10 days till my film gets back and we'll see.
But, I finished my roll in Eckerds, trying to throw uneven lighting situations at the CL. Got yelled at by the photofinisher lady. There are two Sues that work there. One's the best, nicest, person that will work with you. And this other evil Sue. She even told me that she wouldn't take my hand-rolled film casettes when I've dropped them there many times before! I told her the nice Sue would have done it! And but for that other gem I almost walked out of the store. On to Eckerd's corporate hq on Monday to find out there policy for in-store photos. Like I'm going to steal their cool display ideas. Argh.
Anyway, good thoughts everyone. I like the CLE idea an an in-between option, but the no batteries no camera thing is disturbing to me a little.
Well, 10 days till my film gets back and we'll see.
But, I finished my roll in Eckerds, trying to throw uneven lighting situations at the CL. Got yelled at by the photofinisher lady. There are two Sues that work there. One's the best, nicest, person that will work with you. And this other evil Sue. She even told me that she wouldn't take my hand-rolled film casettes when I've dropped them there many times before! I told her the nice Sue would have done it! And but for that other gem I almost walked out of the store. On to Eckerd's corporate hq on Monday to find out there policy for in-store photos. Like I'm going to steal their cool display ideas. Argh.
Anyway, good thoughts everyone. I like the CLE idea an an in-between option, but the no batteries no camera thing is disturbing to me a little.