Leica has warped my sense of reality...

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Hephaestus

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I was just browsing the B&H website and I actually thought to myself ‘”he 28mm Elmarit is only $1600?”. I know the 28mm Summicron is $3300, and several leica lenses are more, but that hardly makes a sixteen hundred dollar lens a bargain. How did this happen? I feel a little bit disgusted with myself for looking through the noctilux thread and thinking about buying one...
Ryan
 
Ryan,

Expensive is a relative word, sad but true. $1,600 is better than half of the ‘Cron so perhaps only is accurate. The question is how different is the quality difference. Perhaps they are saying that there is not much difference between them makes it worth more?

Leica does have a bit of a different twist on how to look at the world. At the end of the day, they do make great stuff.

I bought Leica new years back. Would I buy Leica new today if I were starting from scratch, probably not? I’ve fallen in love with Nikkors again and some CVs.

B2 (;->
 
Leica is unquestionably the best until the advent of ZM glass. I think it is still best, but at least it is open to debate.

Still their prices are outrageous. I see their business as being like those with PhD behind their names. They know more and more about less and less until they know everything about nothing. They will have the best glass in the world, but sell such a small volumn it will cost more than it does today.

Maybe they should go to Mr. K and have him make the lenses.
 
I'm just a little phased that the prospect of spending ~$5000 on a Noctilux doesn't immediately strike me as absurd anymore. It's a dangerous progression, to get desensitized to higher and higher prices. I shake my head at audiophiles who will pay four figure sums on a piece of cable, but I'm starting to see how that kind of thinking can happen (and it's scary).

Ryan
 
Hephaestus said:
I'm just a little phased that the prospect of spending ~$5000 on a Noctilux doesn't immediately strike me as absurd anymore........

Ryan
Click to expand...

I`ve been doing Leica for 20+ years now (and used to even be a collector)
and I STILL think $5,000 is CRAZY for a "Nocti"

Too many people have forgotten what these things are REALLY for "taking pictures"
not morgaging your house or selling your first born for.......

I believe in paying for Leica quality, but with Leica you have to set your limits or have unlimited funds at your disposal not to even care anymore and there`s few people like that anymore, the "mad" collectors of the 1980`s and 90`s are gone, there`s only a handful of crazies who still bump the market prices up

In my personal opinion working with a combo of lenses is always best, the PJ`s in the 1950`s and 60`s proved that, there`s some amazing Nikkor and Canon glass out there for use on Leica bodies, he who stays with one brand will be left behind in the world of creativity mix and match things, either way you will have great and almost endless choices using a LTM or M Leica body

Happy Shooting!

Tom
 
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Leica is a lifestyle brand - Whether or not most of us would admit it, Leica embodies the aspirations of this particular group of people, and serves as an identity supplement to many.

Most of the people on this forum spend more time writing about Leica gear than they do using it. I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with it, it is one of the functions this particular camera brand serves (as do many other brands).

Leica is less about resolution and performance, and more about gear geeks, red dots, black tape, brass vs zinc, chrome vs black paint, 1.0, etc. Leica is about being part of an exclusve, elite group.

For some it is about a sense of history, for others it is absolute perfection of technology-- for all this you choose to pay a premium.

You are not just buying a lens, you are buying an identity supplement.
 
Hephaestus said:
I was just browsing the B&H website and I actually thought to myself ‘”he 28mm Elmarit is only $1600?”. I know the 28mm Summicron is $3300, and several leica lenses are more, but that hardly makes a sixteen hundred dollar lens a bargain. How did this happen? I feel a little bit disgusted with myself for looking through the noctilux thread and thinking about buying one...
Ryan
Click to expand...


I am honored to be responsible for your disgust. 🙂
 
Heh. Talk about expensive being relative... I recently sold a Canon 50/1.8 to finance the repair of my baby Speed Graphic's rangefinder. My wife was shocked at how much I sold that lens for - all of $150 which is actually a fairly normal price for that lens.

Just goes to show...

William
 
dpetrzelka said:
Leica is a lifestyle brand - Whether or not most of us would admit it, Leica embodies the aspirations of this particular group of people, and serves as an identity supplement to many.

Most of the people on this forum spend more time writing about Leica gear than they do using it. I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with it, it is one of the functions this particular camera brand serves (as do many other brands).

Leica is less about resolution and performance, and more about gear geeks, red dots, black tape, brass vs zinc, chrome vs black paint, 1.0, etc. Leica is about being part of an exclusve, elite group.

For some it is about a sense of history, for others it is absolute perfection of technology-- for all this you choose to pay a premium.

You are not just buying a lens, you are buying an identity supplement.
Click to expand...

What strikes me in what you're saying is the non-existence or non-acceptance of Leica as being a tool for capturing scenes, for creating photographs. Is YOUR Leica a photographic tool? It seem it isn't.
A Lens being an identity supplement? That's in your particular case, correct? I can't believe you are talking for the people out there.

Mine and many other people's Leica is just and only that: A tool. No Mystic club whatsoever.

Seems to me you are mirroring your own feelings and believing it's the truth for everyone out there.

I chose to pay a premium for the Noctilux because I fully understand what it is and what it involves as an engineering standpoint. This lens is the impossible lens coming true. The engineer's trophy. The Alchemy. You'll probably understand when you use one and compare it to the Noct-Nikkor, Nikkor 50 and 55 1.2, Canon 50 1.0 and 1.2 and so on.
When you understand the Noctilux doesn't show CA and is extremely contrasty while the Noct-Nikkor is the exact opposite, 5000$ becomes justifiable,,, If you're a shooter.
 
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Strange ........ everybody seems to want a Noctilux since the M8 .... prices for that lens went through the roof (also for other reasons beyond the rise in demand).... now even more people lust for a Noctilux...... it is not much longer than a year ago that Like new Noctiluxes were wideley available for around $2000 and just few people seemed to care ....
The Noctlux certainly is a wonderful lens but it realy is overhyped at the moment!
 
Seems to me you are mirroring your own feelings and believing it's the truth for everyone out there.
Click to expand...

LOL I have seen you do the same for years asserting that Zeiss lenses are rebadged Voigtlander lenses and visa versa when they clearly arent. 😉
 
ClaremontPhoto said:
Leica is not a lifestyle accesory everywhere.

Just as Mercedes is a luxury brand in USA, but a typical taxi in Europe.
Click to expand...

Cars are priced differently in various markets, but aren't Leica cameras and lenses the same high price everywhere?

Clarence
 
LeicaTom said:
I believe in paying for Leica quality, but with Leica you have to set your limits or have unlimited funds at your disposal not to even care anymore and there`s few people like that anymore, the "mad" collectors of the 1980`s and 90`s are gone, there`s only a handful of crazies who still bump the market prices up


Tom
Click to expand...

The mad American collector is no longer there because of the weak dollar. Leica gear is not 'supposed to' be so expensive for you Americans as it is now. Hadn't it been for the collapse of the dollar - which is no mean doing of the Leica managment, Leica gear would have been - about - 40% cheaper in USA today. Still it would be expensive, many would say.

For me, a Norwegian, it is the oposite way around. I get my salary in Norwegian Kroner (NOK). The NOK has rizen compared to the both the dollar and the Euro. Still I find 5,000 $ expensive, but 'managable'. - Actually, what costs 5,000 $ in USA costs 6,000 $ here due to sales tax. So I buy such expensive gear whenever I am overseas.

Yes, I have a Noctilux 50 mm 1,0. I bought it 2.hand here in Norway to an international price typical of EBay etc. And find it to be a short and heavy tele on my M8. It even backfocuses on my M8 and is really not all that fun to shoot with.
 
Lifestyle statements? Not really. I've just come back from 2 weeks in northern Aragon, testing the new TMY alongside the old TMY and Tri-X. I was using mostly an MP; my wife, mainly an M4-P. We also had an M2 (3 films -- 3 bodies) and M8 with us. We shot rather over 1000 pictures on 35mm and another 200 or so on MF.

Why did we choose Leicas? Because they're cheap, reliable cameras. Buy a new one every 10-20 years and the cost per year is trivial -- and you can still go on using the old one. All right, the MP/M8 was something of a double whammy but before I got those the last Leica I bought new was the M4-P, 25 years ago.

Also, they're a lot smaller and lighter than SLRs -- important if you're scrambling up a track in a village that was abandoned 40 years ago, and the roads have all but ceased to exist because of washouts, collapsed walls, vegetation...

Yes, Voigtlanders are smaller still, and incredible value, but as has often been pointed out, it's a question of diminishing returns. A ZI is significantly better than a Voigtlander, but it's meaningless to say it's 'twice as good' at twice the price. And an MP is twice the price of the ZI, and, once again, significantly better, but not 'twice as good'.

Finally, I've been using a Noctilux for a while, on loan from a kind friend, and although it's a very nice lens, it's also huge. I'm equally fond of my (very small) 50/1.5 Sonnar.

Cheers,

Roger
 
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