Leica III - light leak?

[Tim Corbeel]

Hi,

A few months ago my father-in-law gave me a Leica III with a Summar 50mm f/2 collapsible.
This camera was once his father's camera and it wasn't been used for quite some time.
Last week I finally decided to make some shots with it.

When I picked up the prints today two of them had a vertical stripe.
It were the first two shot of the roll.
All the other shots were fine.

Is this a light leak or was it me who screwed up when loading the film?

I'm sorry for the newbie question. I don't have much experience with analog photography. (but fallen in love with it recently 🙂 )

I have attached the two photos (scans of prints).
Some other shots (test shots, not art 😉 ) I made with the Leica and Summar 50mm f/2: http://timcorbeel.posterous.com/leica-iii-my-first-developed-film

Many thanks in advance!

PS: If anyone can recommend other lenses for this camera, please tell me. 🙂

 

[charjohncarter]

Those are so extreme that there is a possibility that you have a real sectional shutter problem. One is so extreme that I thing you might be able to see it. I have had a Leica IIIf for 46 years (same one) and I have used it constantly over that period and I have never had a light leak. Plus, I bet if you go though the light leak threads on this forum you will not find many that involve the IIIs.

The gear people are better than my opinion on lenses, but I like the Summar if you want to sell it give me a shot at it.

 

[batterytypehah!]

Only the first two shots of the roll? Probably not the camera's fault. You got ambient light into the slot of the film cartridge.

Happens all the time. Didn't help that some morons at Kodak and Fuji decided they could make film cans out of translucent plastic :bang:

 

[charjohncarter]

Only the first two shots of the roll? Probably not the camera's fault. You got ambient light into the slot of the film cartridge.

Happens all the time. Didn't help that some morons at Kodak and Fuji decided they could make film cans out of translucent plastic :bang:

I didn't get that it was only the 1 and 2 frames, he is correct. But be careful.

 

[Steve M.]

Yep, it's a shutter problem. Try contacting Youxin Ye (here's his email address) and ask if he works on your model. I highly recommend him.

wye7@yahoo.com

You also might want to try firing the shutter 50 times or so on different speeds. It may just be dragging due to inactivity. Then run another roll of film through it and see how it goes. Unless you want to get an aux viewfinder, you would do best to stay w/ 50mm lenses, although a 35mm Sumaron would be doable on the camera. The 50 2.0 collapsible Summicron also, but on all these lenses, including your Summar, condition is everything. Try to find clean examples w/ a return priveledge.

 

[brachal]

I don't think this is a shutter problem. Looks like operator error loading the film. It happens. I like your shots. The exposures are very good for estimates. As far as lens recommendations, I use the 50mm Leica f/2.8 Elmar on my IIIf most of the time. It has a nice look, sharper and more contrast than the Summar. For wider lenses, I love the new Voigtlander Skopars (35mm f/2.5 and 28mm f/3.5). Two little gems. You'll need a finder to use them. The Soviet KMZ Turret finder is what I use, and I recommend it.

 

[Dwig]

#2 looks very much like a light leak in the cassette, through the felt lip. Check the negs and see if the fogging stops at the edge of the frame or continues onto the sprocket area.

If the former, its something that came through the film gate and shutter. The location of the fogging on the first frame is similar to what can occur with shutter problems. The second, though, is in a very odd location for a shutter issue.

If the latter, the problem very likely occurred when the lab tech attempted to retrieve the leader from the cassette to thread it into the film processor. This is all too common. After years of running a camera store that had its own mini-lab I've learned that if you intend to have the film processed at a mini-lab you shouldn't rewind the film leader into the cassette. Find some method (a distinctive crease in the exposed leader, ...) to mark exposed rolls.

Also, never expose the cassette to bright sunlight. Always return it to a clean container, preferably an opaque one.

 

[colyn]

Only the first two shots of the roll? Probably not the camera's fault. You got ambient light into the slot of the film cartridge.

I too would suspect the cassette is the problem if the leak is only on the first 1 or 2 exposures. Cameras should always be loaded in subdued light to prevent this so I would consider this more operator error in that he probably loaded in a well lit area causing light to enter through the felt.

Happens all the time. Didn't help that some morons at Kodak and Fuji decided they could make film cans out of translucent plastic :bang:

This would not be the problem unless the rolls are exposed to bright light for extended periods of time.

 

[Ronald M]

eventually you will use the brass Leica cassettes which never leak.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Hi Tim,

If only the first two have this problem, BatteryTypeHah, is right, and it was a loading problem.
If more images had this problem I'd say it's shutter drag and it's time to have the camera CLA'd.

Great results for your first time use of a Barnack camera.

Lens suggestions, hmmm. so many to choose from:
A 50mm F/2 Summitar is a 'slight' improvement over the Summar.
A 90mm Elmar f/4 in LTM with a 90mm viewfinder is great for portrait shots.
Some people here swear by the 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar or the early Jupiter-3 copy.




My Leica III doesn't get used often, as I prefer my younger IIIa and IIIc


Regards from The Netherlands,

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

I had this problem with a Zorki 5, I got off the bodyshell and guess what, a lot of old film parts came out of the camera and were due to the fact that the shutterblinds didn't close smootly. So before you send it away for inspection, first check your camera. the shutterblinds itself seem ok.

 

[Tim Corbeel]

#2 looks very much like a light leak in the cassette, through the felt lip. Check the negs and see if the fogging stops at the edge of the frame or continues onto the sprocket area.

If the former, its something that came through the film gate and shutter. The location of the fogging on the first frame is similar to what can occur with shutter problems. The second, though, is in a very odd location for a shutter issue.

If the latter, the problem very likely occurred when the lab tech attempted to retrieve the leader from the cassette to thread it into the film processor. This is all too common. After years of running a camera store that had its own mini-lab I've learned that if you intend to have the film processed at a mini-lab you shouldn't rewind the film leader into the cassette. Find some method (a distinctive crease in the exposed leader, ...) to mark exposed rolls.

Also, never expose the cassette to bright sunlight. Always return it to a clean container, preferably an opaque one.

I checked the negatives and it continues onto the sprockets and stops where the vertical band on the second image stops.
I attached a scan of the negatives (hope it's clear).

Thank you very much everybody for your thoughts/advice on this 'problem'.
Also thank you very much for the lens advice.

I have loaded 'her' again with TRI-X. I'll keep you posted.


I'm starting to fall in love with this camera.
I'm really surprised about what this old, but beautiful lady still produces.
I picked up some darkroom equipment yesterday. Now, I'm looking for good scanner.

 

[batterytypehah!]

This [i.e. translucent container] would not be the problem unless the rolls are exposed to bright light for extended periods of time.

Not sure about that, Colyn. Stray light is cumulative. Typically, the exposed roll sits around for hours or days before it gets to the lab. Any light, bright or dim, that gets past the felt during that period will fully expose the film. It's either light-tight or it isn't. Just like being pregnant -- there is no in-between.

In my experience, the problem went away when I started using strictly black canisters only for exposed rolls.

Interesting perspective from Dwig. Here I was thinking that lab techs can retrieve leaders in their sleep. Maybe I can retrain myself not to rewind into the cassette. Talk about an old, old habit.

 

[payasam]

Habit of 40+ years: hold camera back to ear when rewinding.

 

[kmerenkov]

Habit of 40+ years: hold camera back to ear when rewinding.

What's the advantage?

 

[Dwig]

I checked the negatives and it continues onto the sprockets and stops where the vertical band on the second image stops.
I attached a scan of the negatives (hope it's clear)....

Very interesting fogging pattern. The pattern proves two things:

1. The fogging did not occur as a result of a shutter problem because it continues onto the sprocket area.

2. The fogging did not occur when the fogged portion of the film was wound around a spool, takeup or cassette. If it was there would be both some faint "echo" of the fogging on subsequent lower layers and there would be denser fogged patches were the sprocket hole on the top layer allowed unreduced light to hit a lower layer. This means that the fogging did not occur as a result of a fault in or damage to the felt lip on the cassette.

The pattern indicates that the bottom of the camera was disturbed while the camera was wound to the first, leftmost in the scanned strip, frame, either just after loading (opening the base and realizing the camera is already loaded) or after rewind (opening the base and seeing that the film wasn't completely rewound then closing and finishing the job). The dense fogging on the next frame along with the characteristic edge shape produced by the felt lip supports this conclusion.

 

[Tim Corbeel]

Thank you very much for the explanation Dwig!
It didn't happen after rewind, because the film was completely inside the container when I opened the cam.
Then I must have opened it just after loading. I can't remember doing it, but it doesn't mean that I didn't.
After all the stories I heard about how difficult loading a bottom loader is, I was a bit nervous. To my surprise triming the film and loading the camera wasn't that difficult.

 

[colyn]

Not sure about that, Colyn. Stray light is cumulative. Typically, the exposed roll sits around for hours or days before it gets to the lab. Any light, bright or dim, that gets past the felt during that period will fully expose the film. It's either light-tight or it isn't. Just like being pregnant -- there is no in-between.

In my experience, the problem went away when I started using strictly black canisters only for exposed rolls.

I've never had any problems with the cans causing light leaks with any of my film. When I process film I wait till I have 6-10 rolls. During the in between they sit in a bowl on my table which gets plenty of light from the window. Many times these rolls are not even in a film can..

If there is a defect of the felt trap light can leak into the cassette otherwise they are generally light tight.

 

[xwhatsit]

What's the advantage?

You can hear the leader `click' out of the winding sprocket.

 

[Tim Corbeel]

An update...
I shot a new roll with the Leica III and no problems this time. 🙂

Ok, I admit...I shot 12 frames of this roll with Leitz 50mm f/2 Summar Collapsible still collapsed...Stupid mistake :bang:
But no vertical stripes. 😉