Leica iiia - to Repair & CLA? What to expect?

H

hamish_gill

Guest
I am a happy M7 shooter, but before I bought it I had thought about a Barnack. Since having the M7 I have thought a few times about buying an elderly M as a second body for aidless shooting.

The other day a chap local to me got in touch to ask about something unrelated, a few emails and a meet up later, and we had swapped (temporarily for now) one of my Ricoh GR1v's for his Leica iiia and uncoated summar.

The second I held it, I realised I wanted it! Apart from its issues, its lovely! I few minor marks, but generally its in nice condition! and generally speaking, it feels lovely to hold!

He had warned me that the last time he shot it (some 4 years ago) that it had displayed sporadic potential for having a problem with its shutter. He was right, (excuse the poor description) the lower belt thing that goes around the barrel thing on the left as you look at is has snapped causing the shutter to crinkle and drag when fired.

So, my questions are as follows:

Is a iiia "worth" the cost of repair and CLA cost? - Or would the money be better put into a different model? I'm not talking in terms of features as such, I'm not worried about what features the later models bring. I'm talking about the inherent "quality" of the model?

Also, what will the CLA bring? I'm guessing even more buttery smoothness to the mechanics? But will the VF/RF gain more clarity? or is the slight fogging there for good?

What should I expect to pay for the above? I know this is a little bit of an "how long is a..." question, but broadly speaking?

Lastly, there is a chap local to me called Malcolm Taylor who's name I got of l-camera... ...? Anyone else UK based worth considering?

Cheers

Hamish
 
Hi,

That's a nice looking IIIa; as I see it the model II is better as it hasn't got the fiddly slow speeds and there's less to go wrong (or be wrong) but it has the wide apart RF and VF eyepieces. Also it is "right" for the Summar but Summar's can be dreadful as they get cleaning marks from hell on them sometimes and the cure is expensive.

My next favourite is the model IIIc which has the solid body with a sensible (locking) slow speed dial and the closer VF and RF and they are younger but that's a relative term. Also a IIIc would be right with a coated Summitar which is a vastly superior lens to the Summar.

Having said that the fact is that all Leicas feel right to me and it's just a question of sorting out the specification that suits you. And they're all expensive to get sorted out if/when they don't work as they should.

Mr Taylor should be your first port of call for repairs (and buying perhaps), then ffordes in Scotland if buying. Newton Ellis and Co in Liverpool are good for repairs and sometimes have them for sale. And, of course, Simon & Julie Chesterman for almost anything film related.

You might pay more than they sell for on ebay from the above but you do know what you are getting and it will work as it should.

BTW, they all feel smooth and easy once sorted out. But not as easy as my lever wind M2...

Regards, David

PS (Edit) you are talking £120 to £200 for repairs etc. Even more if blinds are needed but you can be lucky.

PPS MR T and NE & Co are basically repairers but often have items for sale.
 
IMO it is always good to repair / refurbish a Barnack. I have used them for more years than I would like to think about. I believe they are un-parrelled for compactness and beauty and when set up correctly will outperform damn near anything ever made. However from a purely economic stand point its usually cheaper to buy one that has been serviced and set up. If you follow this forum in the classifieds they come up often.

A iiic is the best bang for the buck for a number of reasons but I have a iiia and it is my emotional fav and its sooooo small. If you wind up with a Summar use a hood as they are prone to flare and being uncoated are not as sharp as you might like. They do produce a nice period look and I esp like the way they render color.

If you buy a Barnack thats set up right you will love it and even if you don't the market for them is always solid.
 
Thanks Both, that's good to hear about Malcolm Taylor; a google search of his name does being up the odd tale of woe, but I guess that's par for the course with anyone I his feild, no one is perfect after all!

Spec wise, and compared to M models, I'm not really concerned for features, even the low speed dial doesn't seem a concern. I'm not antisipating this being a day-to-day shooter so don't need features, and in fact will revel in the simplicity I expect. I like the look of the ii in fact... But I don't have a ii in my posetion, which is a big factor in all of this of course 🙂 ... and if I do feel a need for features I have the M/other cameras to hand anyway

In short, it doesn't sound like there is a reason I shouldn't go for a iiia for my tastes or for reason of its function or build etc - really I was just checking there wasn't a major reason not to go for this model, and that doesn't seem to be the case! 🙂

With respect to lenses, the summar does have cleaning marks, but I'm not so worried... I have a very nice Summarit, a range of Russian and a voigtlander lens I can use. If I am to shoot with the summar it would definitely be for its uncoated/old look rather than anything else... I've nearly bought one a couple of times, so it's a little bonus really!

So just for further clarification, should I expect a clearer VF after CLA?

And also, Ray, you mention small size, is a iiia smaller than a iiic/f then. The small size is definitely a factor! I'd not realised just how little they are! It makes the M7 look HUGE!
 
That's a lovely camera. The IIIa is a few millimeters smaller than a IIIc. I carry a IIIc most days but would not mind having a II or III. A lot depends on the sale price but I would agree with others that it would be less expensive to buy a camera ready to go. Also, I have a Summar but think these cameras are at their best with the little 50mm Elmar f3.5 . Good Luck, Joe
 
Dare I ask what people would value a iiia at in the condition it's in? And a summar?
I am hoping to do a deal with the chap, but I want it to be as fair for him as it is for me!
 
After a CLA both your RF and VF windows should be as clear and bright as everything outside of the finder.
Barnacks are great and fun, I'm using a IIIf BD as my day-to-day shooter. Paired with a small 50mm lens like an Elmar it really shines.
(as a more practical shooter I would choose a later Barnack with the closer vf/rf windows... but that's only me)

Hard to tell its value for me. I've paid something like 110€ for my IIIf body, which shows more wear then that IIIa, but had clear finders + a working & smooth shutter (although one curtain had to be replaced due to pinholes). I would say something around 100-130 pounds for the body alone + propably the same amount for the Summar if it's reasonably clean.
But I'm not so into Leica prices; I'm only telling what it would be worth for me 😉
 
A IIIa in the nice cosmetic condition that this one seems to be in would be worth $200-250 but expect it would need a CLA that would cost an additional 150-200. THis one has a loose curtain which would possibly need to be replaced. THat could be done during the CLA but it would cost more ($50?). A good Summar (without too many scratches, but maybe some haze that you probably could clean yourself) may be worth around $200.
 
Hi,

Ignoring the strap lugs on the IIIc, then it's about 2 or 3 mm longer in the body than a I, II, IIIa or IIIb. In the hand you'd say they were the same.

A minor point the Summar is uncoated only, although there was a cottage industry coating them and it can still be done for a price. The Elmar comes both coated and uncoated, ditto the Summitar. On the second-hand (what else?) market the Elmar is the easiest to find, ditto its lens caps and lens hoods.

As for £'s I'd say around the 120 mark for both lens and body (cheaper bought together, sometimes) but dealers charge a lot more, say 100 or so more.

It's important to make sure they have lens caps as these can cost a lot, lot more. Ditto for the shutter guard, which is often lost. Ditto an ERC and beware as the straps can be dodgy. Also some have 1/4" and some 3/8th tripod bushes, not consistent between ERC's and bodies in my experience...

BTW, I've been quoted 150 for two blinds plus 200 to strip the old ones out and put the new ones in... Perhaps a word with Mr T would be a good idea.

Regards, David

PS There was an unsold IIIC and lens on ebay recently at a penny under £200; make of that what you will...
 
At one point I sold all of my cameras, swearing that my days as a photographer were over. The ONLY camera I kept was my IIIa. Get it fixed.
 
Hi,

You said " ... I have a very nice Summarit, a range of Russian and a voigtlander lens I can use... " and that makes me wonder if you've one that would fit a FED I or Zorki I? Both cheap ways of getting a small, neat CRF camera. My FED I being exactly like my Leica II apart from the engraving and a few minor details but I had it completely overhauled by Oleg of OKVintageCamera.com

Suggesting a FED/Zorki on the same thread as a Leica is not a way to become popular but I tend to see cameras as tools and toys and both the Leica and FED 1 work equally well for me and the FED was a lot cheaper.

Regards, David
 
Haha, don't worry you won't loose any favour with me ... I can probably top you potential for loss of favour by saying that one of the big pleasures I get out of my current leica is the pride of ownership!

I also own a zorki 4k, which since it's CLA by a RFF member is actually a very nice camera indeed... I just don't find my self using it that much. I'd like to think that it's there is some tangible technical reason why I don't click with it as much as the leica; it's certainly not as mechanically perfect. But the reality is, I suspect, that the leica just makes me feel more positive through the aforementioned pride! Is that I bad thing? I don't think so, but I imagine some will ... I would actually go as far to say that the pride in ownership makes me take better photos!

So whilst I appreciate the comment, I'm not sure it's the right choice for me, especially with how fond of the broken leica I have already become!
 
Thanks all others for comments and thoughts on pricing etc! Very helpful!
 
mdarnton said:
At one point I sold all of my cameras, swearing that my days as a photographer were over. The ONLY camera I kept was my IIIa. Get it fixed.
Click to expand...

I shall!

So what about now? Do you only shoot with a iiia, or have you bought other cameras?
 
If you're serious about this one, contact a few repairers to get an idea of what the cost would be for repair and the CLA - they vary a lot (having used Malcolm Taylor for a IIIa and IIIf service around 15 years ago he was at the upper end in cost) - and they both continued to have issues after the service... I did purchase an excellent 50mm elmar from him though!

In your position looking for a 'user', I would purchase something fully functioning and allow for the fact that it will need a service over the coming years. There are many great dealers out there - have you checked out 'Peter Loy'?..and many will offer some form of guarantee. Having said all this I know what it's like once you have the camera in your hands...letting go of that IIIa might be hard!!

Good luck!
 
I just want to confirm that HuubL (in an earlier post in this thread) nailed the prices I expect for a IIIa and summar today. His numbers (in USD) are exactly where I'd be in terms of valuation.

The IIIa is a gem. I love mine even though it doesn't go out as much as some of my other cameras. I still love it. I also have a summar that I usually pair with it and it is a nice combination (although you have to appreciate the summar for what it is).

In the US, I use DAG Camera Repair, Youxin Ye, and Sherry Krauter for repairs and CLAs, in that order. Youxin is the least expensive, Dan is the best for LTM and tough jobs, Sherry is good for M and tough jobs. In UK, I'm only aware of CRR Luton, although I've heard well of Peter Loy (mentioned above). I can't say anything about the quality of their work or pricing, but CRR Luton offers some services that have tempted me to send them some cameras.

Provided you get a good service on your IIIa, you will not be disappointed in ownership and use. Be careful though, the warnings about addiction and plunging deeper into Leica are true. Spouses are most suspicious of new cameras that "mysteriously" appear in the house.
 
in answer to the OP's question about the viewfinder, I bought a IIIf that had a few issues so off it went to Youxin for a CLA, I was pretty happy with the viewfinder and was not worried about that but when I talked with Youxin he asked me if I wanted the beamsplitter replaced? He said it was not strictly necessary but would provide some improvement, he said it only cost $30 extra as he had the camera already apart. I immediately said that any thing that would improve my viewfinder that cost so little I was on board for. When I got the camera back I could not believe how much brighter the viewfinder was and while this was probably a combination of the new beamsplitter and the CLA I would highly recommend it
 
rfaspen said:
Be careful though, the warnings about addiction and plunging deeper into Leica are true. Spouses are most suspicious of new cameras that "mysteriously" appear in the house.
Click to expand...

I thought M cameras were addictive but I find the Barnacks even more so and while my spouse is rightly suspicious she can not tell the difference between the different Barnacks and she thinks I only have one
 
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