analogpics
Well-known
Hey all, i'm contemplating picking up either a leica iiif (or g?) or a comparable nicca, canon, leotax, or zorki. I noticed the canon ivsb2 has a combined rf/vf which would be nice (but would it be at the expense of the magnification/focus accuracy in the other options?), but don't see how to attach a standard flash (no pc sync).
I read that the newer leotax tv/fv's viewfinder is wide enough to frame for a 35mm lens which would be nice as ideally i wouldn't need an external finder since portability is one of the key reasons i want to try one, but are there other models that have the wider view? I know they also have a winder vs a knob but i'm not that concerned about that.
I remember seeing one of the clones had a crank built in to the rewind knob which would also be handy.
Are any of them easier to load? Seems like the Nicca 5L/Tower 45/46 is a bit easier since the back opens up like an m body. I'm new to loading film with a removable spool/cutting the leader down so will be interesting to see how that goes lol.
Thanks in advance!
I read that the newer leotax tv/fv's viewfinder is wide enough to frame for a 35mm lens which would be nice as ideally i wouldn't need an external finder since portability is one of the key reasons i want to try one, but are there other models that have the wider view? I know they also have a winder vs a knob but i'm not that concerned about that.
I remember seeing one of the clones had a crank built in to the rewind knob which would also be handy.
Are any of them easier to load? Seems like the Nicca 5L/Tower 45/46 is a bit easier since the back opens up like an m body. I'm new to loading film with a removable spool/cutting the leader down so will be interesting to see how that goes lol.
Thanks in advance!
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Very first thing I would recommend is to exclude any LTM FSU cameras. It is gamble, which is not going to last long enough. And service is problematic. They are nice display items.
I have "made in occupied Japan" Nicca after CLA and with new curtains. It still needs new mirror. Comparing to Leica IIIc I also have after service it is not bad at all.
Nicca was about 80 USD less comparing to IIIc.
I also have Leotax and Canon. Leotax feels more like collectible item. Canon combined VF/RF isn't something I'm finding to be impressive.
If camera is in working order rewind of the film is done by external side of index finger. It is as quick as crank if not quicker.
Canon P already have 35 framelines and it is nice camera, just not as small as earlier LTM cameras.
From Zorki, Leotax, Nicca, Leica and Canon I have, best RF patch is with Zorki and then Leica.
I'm finding it to be main problem with LTM cameras. Good RF patch.
I have "made in occupied Japan" Nicca after CLA and with new curtains. It still needs new mirror. Comparing to Leica IIIc I also have after service it is not bad at all.
Nicca was about 80 USD less comparing to IIIc.
I also have Leotax and Canon. Leotax feels more like collectible item. Canon combined VF/RF isn't something I'm finding to be impressive.
If camera is in working order rewind of the film is done by external side of index finger. It is as quick as crank if not quicker.
Canon P already have 35 framelines and it is nice camera, just not as small as earlier LTM cameras.
From Zorki, Leotax, Nicca, Leica and Canon I have, best RF patch is with Zorki and then Leica.
I'm finding it to be main problem with LTM cameras. Good RF patch.
css9450
Veteran
The early Canons used a proprietary flash-rail kind of thing where the flash attachment slides onto the chrome rail on the right side of the camera. I doubt I've ever seen one in person... And if it can be piggybacked onto to use an electronic flash, I have no idea.
analogpics
Well-known
Thanks Ko.Fe, what do you think of the nicca vs leotax?
I was also looking at the Canon P and 7s...may pick one of those up later on
Is the issue with the RF patch that it's too faint? Wonder how they compare to say a canonet ql17 or kodak retina iiic (one of my all time favorite cameras)
analogpics
Well-known
Yeah, i think that may be what takes the canon ones out of the running, i think i agree with Ko.Fe about the FSU options so maybe its down to nicca/leotax/leica iiif/g
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Some Nicca and Leotax cameras have a shutter with a top speed of only 1/500, while the Leica IIIf and IIIg have a top speed of 1/1000.
With any of these cameras, as Ko Fe noted, the big thing to check is the rangefinder. Almost all of them need the rangefinder's beamsplitter mirror replaced or the secondary image in the rangefinder will be very dim and hard to see.
Most need new shutter curtains, too. I bought one of my Leica IIIf bodies from DAG (Leica repairman Don Goldberg) because he overhauls the cameras he sells and installs new curtains and beamsplitters in them. Buying on eBay or from a store is a crapshoot.
With any of these cameras, as Ko Fe noted, the big thing to check is the rangefinder. Almost all of them need the rangefinder's beamsplitter mirror replaced or the secondary image in the rangefinder will be very dim and hard to see.
Most need new shutter curtains, too. I bought one of my Leica IIIf bodies from DAG (Leica repairman Don Goldberg) because he overhauls the cameras he sells and installs new curtains and beamsplitters in them. Buying on eBay or from a store is a crapshoot.
shorelineae
Finder of ranges
I hear very good things about the Contax iia, too.
Dralowid
Michael
The Nicca/Yashica is a very nice camera, quite modern, half way between LTM and M
I've had Canon, Leotax, Nicca, and Leica Barnacks.
They are all good, assuming recent service and new beamsplitter. Nearly every Barnack I've acquired needed service, most have slow speed problems, many need curtains and beamsplitters. But I've bought mine mostly from individuals, you could always get one from a dealer or from someone like DAG as mentioned above.
I prefer the smaller Barnacks although the larger Canon P has advantages.
They are all good, assuming recent service and new beamsplitter.
Nearly every Barnack I've acquired needed service, most have slow speed problems, many need curtains and beamsplitters. But I've bought mine mostly from individuals, you could always get one from a dealer or from someone like DAG as mentioned above.I prefer the smaller Barnacks although the larger Canon P has advantages.
Graybeard
Longtime IIIf User
If the camera is in for a CLA (not a bad idea if you don't the service history) replacing the beamsplitter mirror is inexpensive, adding about $10 to the overall service cost.
Graybeard
Longtime IIIf User
I have Barnack Leicas and the Canon P. Nothing wrong with the Canon it doesn't feel like a Leica to me (more like a Minolta RF). I prefer the Barnack Leicas.
hap
Well-known
More like 40+$
hap
Well-known
Don't be misled.... manyCanon "barnack" copies are very well built and thoughftully designed. I have a IID which has a great build. It's without the flash rail, a good idea to be patient and find onw without. Canons have variable RF magnification which is useful. Combined RF/Finder a prefernce issue. Since I have a NICCA 3 and Leica IIIc...I have used both designs. the diopter on the NICCA is useful up to 1.5x for those of us nearsighted.
Folks argue about fixing the LTM's claiming that Leicas are more likely to be fixable and parts and expertise widely available. That rings true with me.
I had a Canon P. Loved it. It was stolen and replaced with a Canon 7s. 7s a nice camera but just did not do the trick.
I've had opportunities to acquire Leotax models at very good prices on eBay (Japan) but could not pull the trigger. Already have enough anyway.
Folks argue about fixing the LTM's claiming that Leicas are more likely to be fixable and parts and expertise widely available. That rings true with me.
I had a Canon P. Loved it. It was stolen and replaced with a Canon 7s. 7s a nice camera but just did not do the trick.
I've had opportunities to acquire Leotax models at very good prices on eBay (Japan) but could not pull the trigger. Already have enough anyway.
analogpics
Well-known
Ok, so one thing i didn't take into consideration is...when i use flash, it's 99% with a 35mm lens and so ideally, i wouldnt take that cold shoe space with an external finder. Earlier i was speaking about using the whole viewfinder in the Leotax FV viewfinder for 35mm coverage....i wonder if i'd be able to do that with any other models? I think maybe you could do that with the iiig as well?
Dave Little
Member
Yes I use My 111g and 2.8/35 Summaron Just use the whole frame no problem
Graybeard
Longtime IIIf User
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Youxin Ye charges $30 to replace the beamsplitter during a CLA. DAG and Sherry probably charge more. Its worth it, though.
hap
Well-known
Youxin advertises 30$ when done with CLA. You might expect more with other highly touted technicians.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Thanks Ko.Fe, what do you think of the nicca vs leotax?
I was also looking at the Canon P and 7s...may pick one of those up later on
Is the issue with the RF patch that it's too faint? Wonder how they compare to say a canonet ql17 or kodak retina iiic (one of my all time favorite cameras)
Yes, second image is not so good.
I never owned Canonets and Retinas.
Personally, I like LTM cameras to be small and simple. Leotax is larger than Nicca and it has useless M/X flash sync switch on the front. Nicca is copy of Leica III. Small and simple, no flash socket.
I have 35 VF from Olymus XA and 50mm SBOOI. Will add 21mm LTM lens and already have 20mm VF. I prefer small LTM with external VF, instead of larger vintage LTM with 35 frame lines.
Best from practical POV LTM for 35mm LTM lens with build in 35mm frame-lines is Bessa R, IMO.
ACullen
Well-known
I’ve a Leotax F - it’s my only experience of a barnack. RF patch is excellent and thing is very well built. Top SS is 1/1000 . It did require new curtains . Honestly I don’t think it’s particularly special but it works just fine and doesn’t misbehave !