lyauyeungaa
Newbie
Hi everyone,
After testing out the QL17, I completely fall in love with a rangefinder camera for street photography as I can compose view subjects outside of my frame and I am more used to the focusing method in RF than SLR.
That's why, I am thinking to buy an interchangeable lens rangefinder camera.
However, I have just graduated from university and I have a very limited budget.
That's why my options only filter out to Leica M5, Hexar RF or Bessa R2A/M.
Probably G1 with a lens but I don't really like the viewfinder and lens option is very few.
The price of them is very similar in the place I live in (Leica M5 > Bessa > Hexar).
And I want a camera that is reliable, with a light meter so that I can use it longer.
The Leica M5 has a bright patch and an awesome viewfinder with excellent exposure meter and more importantly, I can look at the shutter speed in the viewfinder.
However, I asked a local Leica dealer and he said M5 light meter is quite easy to have a problem.
Does anyone have a problem with it? Is it easy to be not working?
Hexar RF seems to be prone to misalignment problem. Is this problem resolved in the newer model?
Most website in the place I live comment that Bessa R2A/M is poorly built consider its price that is the same as a M5. Is it still a good choice?
Which camera would you prefer? Thank you!
After testing out the QL17, I completely fall in love with a rangefinder camera for street photography as I can compose view subjects outside of my frame and I am more used to the focusing method in RF than SLR.
That's why, I am thinking to buy an interchangeable lens rangefinder camera.
However, I have just graduated from university and I have a very limited budget.
That's why my options only filter out to Leica M5, Hexar RF or Bessa R2A/M.
Probably G1 with a lens but I don't really like the viewfinder and lens option is very few.
The price of them is very similar in the place I live in (Leica M5 > Bessa > Hexar).
And I want a camera that is reliable, with a light meter so that I can use it longer.
The Leica M5 has a bright patch and an awesome viewfinder with excellent exposure meter and more importantly, I can look at the shutter speed in the viewfinder.
However, I asked a local Leica dealer and he said M5 light meter is quite easy to have a problem.
Does anyone have a problem with it? Is it easy to be not working?
Hexar RF seems to be prone to misalignment problem. Is this problem resolved in the newer model?
Most website in the place I live comment that Bessa R2A/M is poorly built consider its price that is the same as a M5. Is it still a good choice?
Which camera would you prefer? Thank you!
gavinlg
Veteran
Out of those, I'd have a Hexar. It's on the same level as a leica in use and feel. If it breaks it may not be repairable though - something to remember. The M5 would be my choice if it has been recently serviced and had the meter tuned for modern batteries, otherwise nope.
The Bessa isn't on the same level of build as the Leica, but they're still well built and reliable, and should be easy for most technicians to fix if something does go wrong. They're just a little too expensive on the used market right now for me.
The Bessa isn't on the same level of build as the Leica, but they're still well built and reliable, and should be easy for most technicians to fix if something does go wrong. They're just a little too expensive on the used market right now for me.
lyauyeungaa
Newbie
Yes, indeed. I hear that Bessa was only USD 615 in China 1 - 2 years ago.
But it is now nearly USD 1000 for a used one in Hong Kong. That's too expensive.
It is of the same price as an M5 with the workable meter using an old battery.
Hexar only cost around 740 USD and it can be cheaper.
I guess I will go with a Hexar then.
Other than that, what rf camera - that's under 1000 - will you suggest?
aizan
Veteran
The Hexar RF is superb, but I would recommend it as a complement to a more repairable camera.
The Bessas are not as reliable as some other cameras, but repair services are more available. I'd recommend them as an only body even at today's prices. The R2 and R2S/R2C are great buys.
The M5 is a solid choice, too, if the meter is ok.
Other cameras I'd consider under $1000:
- Two Contax G1 bodies (get a backup)
- Leica CL (I'd avoid the Minolta CLE because of repairs)
- Leica and Canon screwmount cameras, classic Contaxes, and Nikon rangefinders (if you can go w/o a built-in meter)
If I had to pick something, I'd get a Fujica GL690 and have it fully serviced and repainted!
The Bessas are not as reliable as some other cameras, but repair services are more available. I'd recommend them as an only body even at today's prices. The R2 and R2S/R2C are great buys.
The M5 is a solid choice, too, if the meter is ok.
Other cameras I'd consider under $1000:
- Two Contax G1 bodies (get a backup)
- Leica CL (I'd avoid the Minolta CLE because of repairs)
- Leica and Canon screwmount cameras, classic Contaxes, and Nikon rangefinders (if you can go w/o a built-in meter)
If I had to pick something, I'd get a Fujica GL690 and have it fully serviced and repainted!
zwicko
Established
Keep your QL17 and enjoy shooting with it.
lyauyeungaa
Newbie
Thanks for your reply. It is too late. I have given my girlfriend the ql17 as Christmas present and i miss it so much lol
I am so regreted. The price of good condition ql17 in Hong Kong is quite expensive.
I bought mine in Taiwan.
So i would better find a new camera. The 1/500 shutter speed is also too slow for me as my go to camera is a FE2, F100. Thats why i like the M5 as it is like my FE2.
lyauyeungaa
Newbie
I cannot find a M5 which light meter is tested in Hong Kong.
Will you recommend a r2m instead of r2s/c. It is because there are not many lens choices in Hong Kong for R2s/c.
I have considered CL. But it feels plastic and I heard that the meter is extremely easy to not working.
Btw, hope you can get your dream camera
leicapixie
Well-known
I have Leica m, there no camera like it!
Also Leicas need adjustments and only a few places available.
Lenses are quite expensive..o
That is price of fame.
Is it better than any other camera?
Are the lenses light years ahead, considering prices?
No! Better in some cases but not by big margins.
Some Leica models are prone to major problems..the orig CL.
I used SLR as a pro, more lenses, really seeing what you getting.
The Leica M for me a very expensive snapshot camera.
simply perfect!
Try for a few weeks a SLR Nikon-F, Spotmatic, K-1000, Canon A series..
My latest Canon Ae-1 with lens 50mm 1.8 was $45.00!
Later one day go for Leica..this site will give you great info.
Also Leicas need adjustments and only a few places available.
Lenses are quite expensive..o
That is price of fame.
Is it better than any other camera?
Are the lenses light years ahead, considering prices?
No! Better in some cases but not by big margins.
Some Leica models are prone to major problems..the orig CL.
I used SLR as a pro, more lenses, really seeing what you getting.
The Leica M for me a very expensive snapshot camera.
simply perfect!
Try for a few weeks a SLR Nikon-F, Spotmatic, K-1000, Canon A series..
My latest Canon Ae-1 with lens 50mm 1.8 was $45.00!
Later one day go for Leica..this site will give you great info.
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Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Limited budget with M5 ? 
Hexar and Bessa ra/m ain’t cheap either. All of them have limited to none service base.
None of them will take cheapest 35 lens, J-12.
You could get M2 and J-12 or you could get right after service Barnack, J-12 and dead Minox, XA for 35 VF.
And honestly Bessa R is best Bessa if you have limited budget, if not best Bessa of all. It wil take Color Skopar or Canon 35 lens. Best street kit on budget, IMO.
Hexar and Bessa ra/m ain’t cheap either. All of them have limited to none service base.
None of them will take cheapest 35 lens, J-12.
You could get M2 and J-12 or you could get right after service Barnack, J-12 and dead Minox, XA for 35 VF.
And honestly Bessa R is best Bessa if you have limited budget, if not best Bessa of all. It wil take Color Skopar or Canon 35 lens. Best street kit on budget, IMO.
lyauyeungaa
Newbie
Limited budget with M5 ?
Hexar and Bessa ra/m ain’t cheap either. All of them have limited to none service base.
None of them will take cheapest 35 lens, J-12.
You could get M2 and J-12 or you could get right after service Barnack, J-12 and dead Minox, XA for 35 VF.
And honestly Bessa R is best Bessa if you have limited budget, if not best Bessa of all. It wil take Color Skopar or Canon 35 lens. Best street kit on budget, IMO.
I have not investigated what lens they can take and I don't have much knowledge on it. Is there any website that I can check the compatibility?
I planned to get either a Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 sc or 7artisan 35mm f2 for now and I have a canon 50mm f1.8 ltm as well.
I can even cut more budget for the camera if I use an adapter and use my F mount lens.
I just like the feeling of rf that a slr cannot give me so I plan to get a better camera first.
This package will be around USD 1000 used in Hong Kong if I choose the Hexar and Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 sc. I guess it is still ok.
How do you think about a r2 comparing with r2m/a? The price of r and r2 is similar in Hong Kong. So, I guess r2 would be better as it has a metal top and bottom plate. I will have a look in the store tmr. See if I like it. And M2 is the price of an r2a/m in Hong Kong. and Barnack is as the nearly price as a hexar. That's way too overpriced in Hong Kong except M5.
I thought all lens can be used on the cameras as long as they are m mount. Seems like Nikon world is simpler lol
Maybe I should do more research on it. I would go to a shop tmr to have a look of all the camera that you suggest. Thank you so much!!
taemo
eat sleep shoot
of the 3, IMO the purest RF camera is the M5.
another factor to consider is shutter sound. the M5 will be more quite than Bessa and RF in order.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvMLm4dthVE
if you can live without light meter, your budget opens up also for M2, M3, M4, M4-2, M4-P
another factor to consider is shutter sound. the M5 will be more quite than Bessa and RF in order.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvMLm4dthVE
if you can live without light meter, your budget opens up also for M2, M3, M4, M4-2, M4-P
lyauyeungaa
Newbie
I love the r2a sound the most.
I get used to using a light meter, so maybe I will have a try on R, R2 and Bessa tmr.
I only heard that the built of bessa is not as good as the hexar. Maybe I will find it ok after testing one out. Thank you
Huss
Veteran
I had an R3A and sold it because I just didn't like using it compared to any of my Leicas. It just felt cheap and not that pleasant in comparison, and that was when it was worth $500! At $1000 you are in serious Leica money so no way would I consider the Bessa.
Get an M5 - the way to test it is to see if the meter works! Point it at something and take a reading. Compare that to a reading of the same scene using a light meter or light meter app on your phone.
Remember the M5 has a spot meter.
Or get an M2, M4-2, M4-P, M3 etc with a separate meter. Either using an app or hand held or one that goes on the hot(cold) shoe such as the VC Meter 2. They all are much nicer to use than the Bessa.
Konica is very nice, but has had electrical issues and LCD bleed. Your's may not...
Get an M5 - the way to test it is to see if the meter works! Point it at something and take a reading. Compare that to a reading of the same scene using a light meter or light meter app on your phone.
Remember the M5 has a spot meter.
Or get an M2, M4-2, M4-P, M3 etc with a separate meter. Either using an app or hand held or one that goes on the hot(cold) shoe such as the VC Meter 2. They all are much nicer to use than the Bessa.
Konica is very nice, but has had electrical issues and LCD bleed. Your's may not...
taemo
eat sleep shoot
I love the Hexar RF and wouldn't mind getting another one (if I can find it at a good price) however the shutter sound and its reliance to electronics made me feel unease.
however IIRC it is the only RF that can shoot up to 1/4000th!
however IIRC it is the only RF that can shoot up to 1/4000th!
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
M5 is most likely to retain value. It is a true Leica experience in use. The lens limitations are few and only involve some older wide angle lenses with deep rear elements -- pretty much this would be Jupiter-12, super angulon, and first version 28 elmarit. Also risky to use collapsible lenses because you might accidentally collapse it and some of those could hit the meter arm. . However, the M5 works gloriously with the vast majority of lenses.
The M5 is likely to be the most repairable of your choices....for longer into the future.
The M5 meter tends to be more reliable than the CL, even though they seem to be the same in appearance. I just use a battery adapter or one of my last few mercury batteries, and not worry about having the meter adjusted for modern batteries.....you can always do that some time in the future if you feel the need.
I vote for M5.
The M5 is likely to be the most repairable of your choices....for longer into the future.
The M5 meter tends to be more reliable than the CL, even though they seem to be the same in appearance. I just use a battery adapter or one of my last few mercury batteries, and not worry about having the meter adjusted for modern batteries.....you can always do that some time in the future if you feel the need.
I vote for M5.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I have not investigated what lens they can take and I don't have much knowledge on it. Is there any website that I can check the compatibility?
I planned to get either a Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 sc or 7artisan 35mm f2 for now and I have a canon 50mm f1.8 ltm as well.
I can even cut more budget for the camera if I use an adapter and use my F mount lens.
I just like the feeling of rf that a slr cannot give me so I plan to get a better camera first.
This package will be around USD 1000 used in Hong Kong if I choose the Hexar and Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 sc. I guess it is still ok.
How do you think about a r2 comparing with r2m/a? The price of r and r2 is similar in Hong Kong. So, I guess r2 would be better as it has a metal top and bottom plate. I will have a look in the store tmr. See if I like it. And M2 is the price of an r2a/m in Hong Kong. and Barnack is as the nearly price as a hexar. That's way too overpriced in Hong Kong except M5.
I thought all lens can be used on the cameras as long as they are m mount. Seems like Nikon world is simpler lol
Maybe I should do more research on it. I would go to a shop tmr to have a look of all the camera that you suggest. Thank you so much!!
Where I'm it is hard to fit ready for street Leica M and even 7A 35 f2 under 1000 USD.
I would have to deal with very used M, which will need service sooner, than serviced one.
If M5 is less expensive make sure it works and be prepared to find where and send it for service and wait long time.
M5 can't take lenses with protruding rear elements like cheap J-12.
Or to have lens collapsed into it, like Elmar 50.
R2 is as good as R, just not LTM mount. All Bessa R cameras are not durable on exterior. To keep it from wearing out and quick, it is good to use half-case.
Nikon F has no RF. Distance scale focus only on Leica. It works OK with 20mm lenses, but for 35mm it is not advisable.
lyauyeungaa
Newbie
Really thank for your opinion.
If it is around 600, maybe I would consider a bessa...
It is way too expensive now.
But the only advantage is that it is a lastest model.
So, probably a light meter will not break that early and I can use it longer even I get a R2a
aizan
Veteran
Yes, I'd recommend the R2M instead of R2S/C, if you can't find Nikon/Contax lenses in Hong Kong.
kamil_k
Member
Based on my own lessons learned I would stick to the QL17 for a while instead of upgrading the gear unless you have a specific use case which would require a different camera. Many of RF cameras of that era will give you a very good image quality. I started with Yashica Electro 35 which I still own and use today. I bet this will apply to QL17 as well. The lens is sharp, bright and the shutter is very quiet. The 40mm lens is also very close to 35mm.
I was however at the same place as you some time ago and went for 2 of options which you mentioned at the beginning. Out of curiousity and gear acquisition syndrome. There is however no perfect camera - all of them have some pros and cons. After a while I stopped to look for the non existing ideal gear and learned to admire what I already have. Let me share my own experiences:
Bessa - I own a Bessa R. Built quality is really OK however it's not the same level as Leica. The common issue with Bessas is RF which seems to be prone to get ouf of alignment. Once I got my camera I had to adjust it. It held several months until I noticed that it needed adjustment again. This time I secured the screw with the nail polish and so far so good (2 years now) however I don't use my Bessa too often. You will read many comment like my on this forum with regard to any of the R models. Plus the Bessa's shutter is noticeably louder compared to other cameras.
The M5 - (like probably any of the M cameras) it feels like a real tool designed to get something done, something serious. I tend to compare it to a gun. Other cameras may feel more like fragile toys compared to it. +100 points to confidence. M5 has some advantages compared to other M cameras when it comes to user friendliness minus the unusual look among other leicas. Leicas are very precise instruments which entails professional service. The seller who sold me the M5 claimed it was CLA'd several years before. Unfortunately there is no definition of CLA and after several months of using it I decided to get a full overhaul of my M5 which is a very costly process. That's why I don't advise anyone on a tight budget to start with the M system. Secondly if you are looking for an interchangeble lens camera it means at least two lenses. That something what doesn't come with a tight budget
The final question is - will you really notice any difference once you look at your pictures taken with any of the cameras mentioned above? I like to look at one particular 30x40cm hand made print at home taken with my Yashica Electro. It's pretty damn sharp photo taken with a 45 Years old camera which didn't even cost me 50EUR
I was however at the same place as you some time ago and went for 2 of options which you mentioned at the beginning. Out of curiousity and gear acquisition syndrome. There is however no perfect camera - all of them have some pros and cons. After a while I stopped to look for the non existing ideal gear and learned to admire what I already have. Let me share my own experiences:
Bessa - I own a Bessa R. Built quality is really OK however it's not the same level as Leica. The common issue with Bessas is RF which seems to be prone to get ouf of alignment. Once I got my camera I had to adjust it. It held several months until I noticed that it needed adjustment again. This time I secured the screw with the nail polish and so far so good (2 years now) however I don't use my Bessa too often. You will read many comment like my on this forum with regard to any of the R models. Plus the Bessa's shutter is noticeably louder compared to other cameras.
The M5 - (like probably any of the M cameras) it feels like a real tool designed to get something done, something serious. I tend to compare it to a gun. Other cameras may feel more like fragile toys compared to it. +100 points to confidence. M5 has some advantages compared to other M cameras when it comes to user friendliness minus the unusual look among other leicas. Leicas are very precise instruments which entails professional service. The seller who sold me the M5 claimed it was CLA'd several years before. Unfortunately there is no definition of CLA and after several months of using it I decided to get a full overhaul of my M5 which is a very costly process. That's why I don't advise anyone on a tight budget to start with the M system. Secondly if you are looking for an interchangeble lens camera it means at least two lenses. That something what doesn't come with a tight budget
The final question is - will you really notice any difference once you look at your pictures taken with any of the cameras mentioned above? I like to look at one particular 30x40cm hand made print at home taken with my Yashica Electro. It's pretty damn sharp photo taken with a 45 Years old camera which didn't even cost me 50EUR
CharlesDAMorgan
Veteran
M5, built like a tank, a precision instrument and a joy to use, my go to M.
Also not a single one to be found in any UK Leica dealer. They have a meter, like the M6 and see how expensive those have become.
Frankly though, I'd start without a metered camera and learn with an incident meter. Lenses don't need to be expensive, there are some great screw mount lenses for far less than M mount, which merely need an adapter.
Also not a single one to be found in any UK Leica dealer. They have a meter, like the M6 and see how expensive those have become.
Frankly though, I'd start without a metered camera and learn with an incident meter. Lenses don't need to be expensive, there are some great screw mount lenses for far less than M mount, which merely need an adapter.