Leica M6: lost film in take-up spool

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zgeeRF

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I shot a film roll made from bulk, not well fastened in the cartridge and upon winding the last frame (and more..) the film detached from the cartridge and is now rolled in the take up spool. I was hoping to retrieve it for development but (at least in the dark) it seems impossible to reach the end from the open back or below.
Does anyone have any ideas for retrieving? before doing it in the light and losing the exposed film... I understand it is hard to describe in words but has anyone here experienced this issue in an M6?
 
The only thing i can think of.... Sometimes when changing an unfinished roll of film the leader would slip back into the cassette. I would take another piece of film, lick the underside and insert it through the felt trap & presto, i'd get the leader back out. I'd try something similar.....inserting another piece of film through the open back hoping to retrieve the end. * of course have the lever set to rewind...to allow the 'tulip' to spin.
 
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Probably bound/wound tight on the tulip mechanism.

See Mukul Dube’s response in this thread:
www.photo.net

Removing Broken Film?

<p>I always advance until I feel a little resistance before rewinding the film. Tonight I advanced some HP5+ and the resistance was barely noticeable at the end of the stroke. I stopped and started to rewind and the crank just spinned and spinned: the tape broke off the canister spindle and...
www.photo.net www.photo.net

IMG_9191.jpeg
 
I had this happen to me once with my MP. Went into a dark room, took off the bottom plate, and tried to remove the film. Didn't work. I turned on the lights realizing that part of the film would be exposed to daylight. I then grabbed onto the end of the film, turned out the lights, and removed the film. As expected, the edges of the film were exposed to light, but I managed to salvage some of the roll. One unplanned benefit was that I was shooting a model, and the light leak gave the images a "dreamy" look which actually worked.

Jim B.
 
Raydm6: Thank you for this. I should have resorted in the manual but didn't think of it. I will try this " remarkably simple" remedy in the changing bag and report the results here!
I knew I would get some useful ideas here, as always!
Thanks again also to mukul_dube for finding this!
 
Mackinaw said:
I had this happen to me once with my MP. Went into a dark room, took off the bottom plate, and tried to remove the film. Didn't work. I turned on the lights realizing that part of the film would be exposed to daylight. I then grabbed onto the end of the film, turned out the lights, and removed the film. As expected, the edges of the film were exposed to light, but I managed to salvage some of the roll. One unplanned benefit was that I was shooting a model, and the light leak gave the images a "dreamy" look which actually worked.

Jim B.
Click to expand...
Yes that was my plan B... I know the internal parts of the roll are not damaged (from experience🙂
 
Deardorff38 said:
The only thing i can think of.... Sometimes when changing an unfinished roll of film the leader would slip back into the cassette. I would take another piece of film, lick the underside and insert it through the felt trap & presto, i'd get the leader back out. I'd try something similar.....inserting another piece of film through the open back hoping to retrieve the end. * of course have the lever set to rewind...to allow the 'tulip' to spin.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the suggestion but I am afraid I will have no luck doing this. I even have trouble retrieving film from cartridges with the "tool" so...
 
I frequently bulk-roll my own film. I use masking tape to attach it to the spool. My solution for keeping the film from pulling off the spool--which has worked 100% since I started doing it--is this: I put the tape on both sides of the film. I first apply the tape to the base (glossy) side for about an inch or a bit less, carry it over and around the spool--making sure to press it down on to all exposed parts of the spool so there's no air gap between tape and spool--and then run it onto the emulsion side of the film a little ways.

This seems to provide sufficient resistance to keep the tape from breaking or pulling off the film. I had a few accidents like yours when I first started loading my own film, but once I began taping both sides, I've never had a problem--whether advancing film by hand, or using a motor drive (in my Nikons).

The other alternative, since you're using a Leica, is to get you a stock of the old brass Leica film cassettes--which I've acquired a stock of nine of over the years (very convenient number, as that allows me to roll half a 100-foot reel of film). If they've got the original spools in them, the teeth in the center slot will pretty much certainly ensure that your film doesn't slip off, if you've trimmed your film correctly and inserted it properly.
 
rulnacco said:
I frequently bulk-roll my own film. I use masking tape to attach it to the spool. My solution for keeping the film from pulling off the spool--which has worked 100% since I started doing it--is this: I put the tape on both sides of the film. I first apply the tape to the base (glossy) side for about an inch or a bit less, carry it over and around the spool--making sure to press it down on to all exposed parts of the spool so there's no air gap between tape and spool--and then run it onto the emulsion side of the film a little ways. [...] The other alternative, since you're using a Leica, is to get you a stock of the old brass Leica film cassettes [...] If they've got the original spools in them, the teeth in the center slot will pretty much certainly ensure that your film doesn't slip off, if you've trimmed your film correctly and inserted it properly.
Click to expand...
I'll vouch for all of this. If I have to use standard reloadables, I put the "tongue" of the film through the slot, then wrap a single piece of tape all the way around, from emulsion to base. If I don't it almost always comes off the spool, as the "catch" in the spool is bloody useless.

IXMOOs and FILCAs are a much better system, followed by the Shirley-Wellard for SLRs, and finally the Zeiss-style cassettes which were used by a lot of Leica's competitors. I've never had film rip out of a FILCA or Shirley-Wellard, but the Zeiss-style ones are a 50-50 gamble. I wish everyone had just copied the FILCA instead.
 
rulnacco said:
I frequently bulk-roll my own film. I use masking tape to attach it to the spool. My solution for keeping the film from pulling off the spool--which has worked 100% since I started doing it--is this: I put the tape on both sides of the film. I first apply the tape to the base (glossy) side for about an inch or a bit less, carry it over and around the spool--making sure to press it down on to all exposed parts of the spool so there's no air gap between tape and spool--and then run it onto the emulsion side of the film a little ways.

This seems to provide sufficient resistance to keep the tape from breaking or pulling off the film. I had a few accidents like yours when I first started loading my own film, but once I began taping both sides, I've never had a problem--whether advancing film by hand, or using a motor drive (in my Nikons).

The other alternative, since you're using a Leica, is to get you a stock of the old brass Leica film cassettes--which I've acquired a stock of nine of over the years (very convenient number, as that allows me to roll half a 100-foot reel of film). If they've got the original spools in them, the teeth in the center slot will pretty much certainly ensure that your film doesn't slip off, if you've trimmed your film correctly and inserted it properly.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the suggestions. I normally do as you describe (both sides of the film stuck ), but I recently tried using non reusable cartridges from spent rolls where there is a short piece of the old film protruding and you splice the new film to the old piece. Not a great method and probably less reliable if the remaining piece of the old film is not long enough for good adhesion.

yes it would be great to find some old Leica cassettes... especially since I find the reloadable cartridges sold new are kind of flimsy
 
I had it once after film broke in -28C temperature.
I wiggled the intake spool from the bottom (is it not made to be tight), this loosened the film.
If masking tape or else been in use for fixing it on the cassette spool is wrapped around, you might be able to cut it with something thin and sharp.
 
Coldkennels said:
If I have to use standard reloadables, I put the "tongue" of the film through the slot, then wrap a single piece of tape all the way around, from emulsion to base.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't even bother using the slot on standard spools--waste of time and effort to trim the film to fit through it since the slot doesn't actually do anything helpful. I just lay the film onto the spool, making sure about a quarter inch of the squared end is lying on the spool. Then I slap the tap on top of the base side, snug the tape up against the spool as I wrap it around (tucking it under the gap between the emulsion side and the spool, so it will fit through the light trap) and then running it out onto the emulsion side a bit. The force gets spread out more, and so you run less risk of tearing/dislodging the tape. Otherwise, that's just how I do it, although personally I go from base to emulsion side, I find that easier.

zgeeRF said:
I recently tried using non reusable cartridges from spent rolls where there is a short piece of the old film protruding and you splice the new film to the old piece.
Click to expand...

That's really kind of false economy, I'd think. You do save a bit of money--not as much as formerly, sigh--winding your own film, but I think the risk you take of spoiling your film using that method isn't worth the cost savings of that part of the process. And I've been lucky, over the years, to find a buttload of the nice old Kalt reusable cassettes--all metal, both the cassette body and the end caps--very cheaply. Using them, and the technique I've described, I've never (knock on wood) suffered a film breaking loose from the spool.
 
rulnacco said:
And I've been lucky, over the years, to find a buttload of the nice old Kalt reusable cassettes--all metal, both the cassette body and the end caps--very cheaply. Using them, and the technique I've described, I've never (knock on wood) suffered a film breaking loose from the spool.
Click to expand...
Yes! the all metal cassettes are good. Back in the day I used Agfa and Ilford all metal cassettes
 
I haven't bulk-loaded 35mm film since the early 1990s. But by that point in time, I'd been using re-loadable cassettes with screw on tops just like these, obtainable from B&H Photo, for over 20 years. I used 1" tape that went completely around the spool and was stuck onto about 1/2" of the film on both sides, much like the film manufacturers' tape is applied on factory loads. Never once had a film come free of the spool in my cameras.

That notion of splicing the film onto the ends of factory loads is risky ... Unless you habitually load, say, a 28 frame length of film and ALWAYS stop at 24 frames to rewind, it is bound to come free at one point or another. I wouldn't do it.

G
 
Update: I had to resort to plan B (turn on the lights like Mackinaw ) to find the end of the film, then return into the bag, retrieve, and load it to the tank. The recommended method from the M6 manual (see above in this thread) did not do anything for me despite many attempts.
Now the film is drying, I lost half several frames completely and many more have "artistic" sprocket hole marks and some flare... so it is not a total loss and the camera is safe.

Thanks everyone for suggestions and general support 🙂
 
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