mdspace
Established
In my personal opinion after the released of the M8 in September 2006, a digital rangefinder M-Mount camera, I feel that Leica is playing with a difficult deal again.
After just three years of the M8, the release of a new M can't offer the legendary old school Leica concept, sadly..., but I'm sure about it. Specially, because is to much different talking about film and digital, like to talk about automatic watches and quartz watches. The present is forgiving the perpetual feeling of may artifacts, we talk more about disposables, but a legendary Leica... have to stay like a perpetual artifact. I remember when the camera model survive for more than ten years without changes. To pass from a M8 to a M9 is a significant step and it doesn't have to be a fancy 9/9/09 or to see what company release just another new model. In the past I feel the companies used to make an experiment with themselves before the release, I mean make a "SOLID STEP"... Are they are trying to make us experiment for them now?
Leica said that the M9 have the legendary M feeling, ....really?, if the M8 omitted the manual controls like the shutter lever, in the M9 everything have to be checked in the LCD screen, inclusively the shots counter. I personally feel that the controls operate as the same way as any digital camera like the Canon G10 or something like that. The guy of Leica that said about the M feeling, have never handle or feel in a true way a MP or a M3 in his hand-heart.
I will not surprise if the new M9 need a predecessor in he next years like a M9.2 of something like this, increasing again a thousand to the price, or maybe you will need to buy another expensive accessory to be well with your treasure. For me was very interesting to find and accessory that make you feel the shutter lever feeling. Maybe somebody will design an analog shots counter that you can attach to the camera.
I admit that it's amazing to have a new Leica in the photography world for us, and all the expectation that we are always waiting when a new camera is coming.
But now, I prefer to wait until the M9 survive for at least 5 years without significant changes before I consider to have one, to be sincere, sometimes the risk can be stupid if you didn't learn for the before. My "before", sold my R-D1 and some lenses, bought a M8, upgraded for a M8.2, sold it and finally returned and bought two R-D1s. I'm now in my happy essence again: The real synergy between me + my camera + photography passion, just like that.
It is very nice to make photography experiments ourselves, but it's not funny to experiment with your wallet and your feeling again.
__________________
"The life is like the sea's foam, that is why we have to do like the sea does..."
After just three years of the M8, the release of a new M can't offer the legendary old school Leica concept, sadly..., but I'm sure about it. Specially, because is to much different talking about film and digital, like to talk about automatic watches and quartz watches. The present is forgiving the perpetual feeling of may artifacts, we talk more about disposables, but a legendary Leica... have to stay like a perpetual artifact. I remember when the camera model survive for more than ten years without changes. To pass from a M8 to a M9 is a significant step and it doesn't have to be a fancy 9/9/09 or to see what company release just another new model. In the past I feel the companies used to make an experiment with themselves before the release, I mean make a "SOLID STEP"... Are they are trying to make us experiment for them now?
Leica said that the M9 have the legendary M feeling, ....really?, if the M8 omitted the manual controls like the shutter lever, in the M9 everything have to be checked in the LCD screen, inclusively the shots counter. I personally feel that the controls operate as the same way as any digital camera like the Canon G10 or something like that. The guy of Leica that said about the M feeling, have never handle or feel in a true way a MP or a M3 in his hand-heart.
I will not surprise if the new M9 need a predecessor in he next years like a M9.2 of something like this, increasing again a thousand to the price, or maybe you will need to buy another expensive accessory to be well with your treasure. For me was very interesting to find and accessory that make you feel the shutter lever feeling. Maybe somebody will design an analog shots counter that you can attach to the camera.
I admit that it's amazing to have a new Leica in the photography world for us, and all the expectation that we are always waiting when a new camera is coming.
But now, I prefer to wait until the M9 survive for at least 5 years without significant changes before I consider to have one, to be sincere, sometimes the risk can be stupid if you didn't learn for the before. My "before", sold my R-D1 and some lenses, bought a M8, upgraded for a M8.2, sold it and finally returned and bought two R-D1s. I'm now in my happy essence again: The real synergy between me + my camera + photography passion, just like that.
It is very nice to make photography experiments ourselves, but it's not funny to experiment with your wallet and your feeling again.
__________________
"The life is like the sea's foam, that is why we have to do like the sea does..."
Last edited:
larmarv916
Well-known
I would say that "you" have hit on a new angle to the M9 and it's phony marketing introduction. That I did not think about. Your comments are very well targeted. Leica's culture just does not put the same value on it's clients as it did many years ago. Leica's over confidence on the M9 is misplaced.
Leica has allowed it's perspective to be misdirected towards..what we call the "Cram Down" or "my way or the highway" We know what is best for you and you will buy it and not complain! Money means nothing to these people inside the company! They assume...wrongly that part of the reason customer by Leica is so they can say..they own the most expensive cameras in the world.
This is always been wrong...Leica got knocked out by Nikon many years ago. When Nikon went to Life Magazine and offered the staff a blind test...and Nikon came up the winner. From that day forward it has been very difficult for Leica to justify this concept of playing with peoples wallets.
When the world turns away from your products because they can find performance equal or better at a better price...guess what you end up selling "White" M8's for rock stars, hollywood and jet setters who see them as toys or fashion accessories. Yes...mdspace you have the moral high ground !
All the best....Laurance
Leica has allowed it's perspective to be misdirected towards..what we call the "Cram Down" or "my way or the highway" We know what is best for you and you will buy it and not complain! Money means nothing to these people inside the company! They assume...wrongly that part of the reason customer by Leica is so they can say..they own the most expensive cameras in the world.
This is always been wrong...Leica got knocked out by Nikon many years ago. When Nikon went to Life Magazine and offered the staff a blind test...and Nikon came up the winner. From that day forward it has been very difficult for Leica to justify this concept of playing with peoples wallets.
When the world turns away from your products because they can find performance equal or better at a better price...guess what you end up selling "White" M8's for rock stars, hollywood and jet setters who see them as toys or fashion accessories. Yes...mdspace you have the moral high ground !
All the best....Laurance
Pickett Wilson
Veteran
What would you have had Leica to do? Whether you like it or not, if you want a FF digital rangefinder camera, the M9 is your option. Is it the best camera on earth? Of course not. Is it going to be the Leica you'll pass on to your grandchildren? Probably not. Will you want something better in a few years? Probably so. Will you be able to get your investment mostly back in five years like same film M's of yore? Almost certainly not.
Look, I personally think $7,000 is too much to pay for a digital M. But if you want a new one, the M9 is your choice. The world has moved on. Things will never be like they were (or like our faulty memories think they were).
All of these angst filled threads bemoaning the fact that Leica will not be in the future what it was in the past is nothing but short-sightedness and revisionist history. Move on!
Look, I personally think $7,000 is too much to pay for a digital M. But if you want a new one, the M9 is your choice. The world has moved on. Things will never be like they were (or like our faulty memories think they were).
All of these angst filled threads bemoaning the fact that Leica will not be in the future what it was in the past is nothing but short-sightedness and revisionist history. Move on!
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
What is the problem? Leica had to move forward or die. It may still die but it has at least to try. Times change and for some it is a sad thing.
Bob
Bob
TJV
Well-known
Some of you guys need to get real and enter the modern age. We aren't living in 1960 anymore, at least not last time I checked. Either they release a new camera every few years for people to buy or they go broke and we all lose out. Which would you prefer?
leicashot
Well-known
With digital technology changing so quickly, I doubt we'll be able to associate the term 'legendary' with equipment in the future, maybe 'revolutionary'.
But the M9 is a great feat for Leica and I'm happy it's finally here.
But the M9 is a great feat for Leica and I'm happy it's finally here.
larmarv916
Well-known
Actually everyone has been dying wanting Leica to move forward..not sideways!
The M9 is not a better answer..just the fact that it has a full frame sensor does not make it "giant leap for mankind"...it takes away all of the standard options that made a M body possible to fit your and my needs. This is CL with a full 35 sensor and an inferior viewfinder. AT... a much higher cost.
So if higher cost,,,denial of "Choice" of viewfinders...which give a lower quality of Focus accuracy is a "value added" win for consumers. What happens here is everyone throws there arms up a bows down to the stupid fact that it is digital !! We all know that a traditional negative or slide scanned on a high quality scanner. At a high DPI will out perform even a 20 Meg sensor.
So in the end....it I come up with a 20 meg capture for an "I phone" and hang frames on the display screen and put a RED DOT on it...you guys would all bow down to the new M10 ??
All that was ever required was to create a digital back that did NOT modify the rangefinder above. They have thrown away the most accurate viewfinder for what ....a digital sensor capture ? I just can not find any honest up side or increase in value ! I want superior performance...I do not see that happening. All the best...Laurance
The M9 is not a better answer..just the fact that it has a full frame sensor does not make it "giant leap for mankind"...it takes away all of the standard options that made a M body possible to fit your and my needs. This is CL with a full 35 sensor and an inferior viewfinder. AT... a much higher cost.
So if higher cost,,,denial of "Choice" of viewfinders...which give a lower quality of Focus accuracy is a "value added" win for consumers. What happens here is everyone throws there arms up a bows down to the stupid fact that it is digital !! We all know that a traditional negative or slide scanned on a high quality scanner. At a high DPI will out perform even a 20 Meg sensor.
So in the end....it I come up with a 20 meg capture for an "I phone" and hang frames on the display screen and put a RED DOT on it...you guys would all bow down to the new M10 ??
All that was ever required was to create a digital back that did NOT modify the rangefinder above. They have thrown away the most accurate viewfinder for what ....a digital sensor capture ? I just can not find any honest up side or increase in value ! I want superior performance...I do not see that happening. All the best...Laurance
AutumnJazz
Member
It'd be nice if Leica innovated, like they did originally...Hell, they invented autofocus. And they SOLD it. They didn't even license it.
I'm not too hopeful with the M9. The M8/.2 has so many problems, it is useless to people who actually use cameras as tools and don't baby them. What happened the the legendary handling and ruggedness that sold Leicas to photojournalists for decades upon decades?
I'm not too hopeful with the M9. The M8/.2 has so many problems, it is useless to people who actually use cameras as tools and don't baby them. What happened the the legendary handling and ruggedness that sold Leicas to photojournalists for decades upon decades?
leicashot
Well-known
True, the only concern for me on the M9, exists in my M8.
I can't totally rely on it like I do my Canon 1D's, especially in semi/extreme weather situations. Also scared about dropping it, but not my Canon which has survived everything.
Mephiloco
Well-known
Get out of the past. Why on earth would you need a shutter lever on a digital camera? That seems kind of gimmicky. I don't see the problem with using the LCD to see how many shots you have left, or how much battery life. It's a digital camera, and I suppose Leica expects you to use it as such.
I think the problem you have is with the camera making world at large, and not specifically Leica. Film isn't digital, and it's unfair to fault a company for not putting in 'features' that add nothing in the way of functionality but instead allude to previous models.
Film isn't digital. If you want to shoot film, use your old film Leica. It's as simple as that.
I think the problem you have is with the camera making world at large, and not specifically Leica. Film isn't digital, and it's unfair to fault a company for not putting in 'features' that add nothing in the way of functionality but instead allude to previous models.
Film isn't digital. If you want to shoot film, use your old film Leica. It's as simple as that.
Harry S.
Well-known
I don't understand the shot counter 'problem' that people are complaining about. SD cards are so cheap and plentiful these days that its arguable one even needs a shot counter at all. 2GB on a 18mp camera is over 150 shots. Last time I bought a 2GB SD card it was $10...
kemal_mumcu
Well-known
I think the M9 is the digital M that we've always been waiting for, not that the M8 was a stinker but the M9 is the closest to the original M concept in digital clothes. If you want the latest in innovation get a S2, if you want 1960's M get a M2, if you want the M concept in digital the M9 is the latest choice.
If I had the money I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
If I had the money I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
inalux
Newbie
I don't have a M9, but use a M8 and M6TTL. To me their boxes that capture lights and Leica boxes and lenses capture the light beautiful. It is a giant step to make a full format rangefinder and nobody does it. Leica cameras has their own purposes and for other type of photography use DSLR.......
So my point is M9 is historical legendary!
So my point is M9 is historical legendary!
RuedigerMerz
Member
I would say it all depends on your shooting style. e.g if you are a wedding photographer and you have to know when to change the card, you can not check the LCD all the time, or you miss important shots.
dotur
od karnevala
2 legendary vs. 1 best
2 legendary vs. 1 best
2 legendary vs. 1 best = M3 and Zorki4 vs. M1
M3 might have been both legendary and the best, but it needs spectacles for wide lenses...
Zorki4 can't compete, but the total production number is 1,715,677...
M1 is the best: the same quality as M3, but no rangefinder: only etched frames for 35 and 50 in the viewfinder! Parallax problem?
Yes, and how many drawbacks can you get for 7000 $? We are still counting...
My site: www.ivanlozica.com
2 legendary vs. 1 best
2 legendary vs. 1 best = M3 and Zorki4 vs. M1
M3 might have been both legendary and the best, but it needs spectacles for wide lenses...
Zorki4 can't compete, but the total production number is 1,715,677...
M1 is the best: the same quality as M3, but no rangefinder: only etched frames for 35 and 50 in the viewfinder! Parallax problem?
Yes, and how many drawbacks can you get for 7000 $? We are still counting...
My site: www.ivanlozica.com
Attachments
Mephiloco
Well-known
so what do wedding photographers do with other digital cameras that also lack a counter aside from using the lcd?
If you have money for a $7000 camera you should have enough to buy plenty of memory cards. 32gb sdhc cards are less than $100, and now we have 64gb sdxcs. Even shooting raw 32gb is a lot of space.
Why not just put in a new card when you change batteries and not worry about a frame counter? Your battery will be dead before you fill the card anyways
If you have money for a $7000 camera you should have enough to buy plenty of memory cards. 32gb sdhc cards are less than $100, and now we have 64gb sdxcs. Even shooting raw 32gb is a lot of space.
Why not just put in a new card when you change batteries and not worry about a frame counter? Your battery will be dead before you fill the card anyways
urban_alchemist
Well-known
The world has changed - products in the digital age have cycles 1/20, 1/10, 1/5 the length before; and this goes for every consumer product.
Is the Leica M9 legendary? Yes I believe it is - as it is the first digital M to use the M-mount lenses as they were intended. Will it be immediately obsolete the second the M10 is released? No - I went out yesterday and took some beautiful photos with my M8; still beautiful despite the existence of the M9!
Is the Leica M9 legendary? Yes I believe it is - as it is the first digital M to use the M-mount lenses as they were intended. Will it be immediately obsolete the second the M10 is released? No - I went out yesterday and took some beautiful photos with my M8; still beautiful despite the existence of the M9!
AutumnJazz
Member
The S2 is the kind of camera that will never leave a studio, or maybe a photo shoot. I need cameras that can take abuse...because they go with me wherever I go. Leica should be able to blow Canon and Nikon out of the water, but they aren't. What happened to the camera maker that more-or-less invented photojournalism? (Aside from Speed Graphics, of course...maybe photojournalism as we know it.)
Harry S.
Well-known
Photojournalism isnt the same as it was 50 years ago. Neither are the cameras. Fact of the matter is most working news/ sports photographers dont care about photography enough to want a boutique item that 'doesnt even' have auto-focus. DSLR's are to them like a hammer is to a carpenter.
AutumnJazz
Member
I know plenty of PJs that use manual focus on their SLRs. Some of them even have Leicas...