Leica meters, worth buying?

J

JianL

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I want to buy a meter for my Ms and was wondering if it's worth buying an old working MR for a third of the price of a VC Meter 2.

My main concern is reliability and accuracy. I'm shooting negatives but slides are a possibility once in a while.
 
It's kinda hard to find a M-meter that's still accurate, and how long it would be accurate for is anyone guess ;) So why not a 2nd hand VC meter?
 
If your top plate already has meter marks, why not?

They can be fixed; the advantages of a proper Leica meter are that it is coupled to the shutter speed dial and also that its field of view is the same as the 90mm frameline, which all Ms have. Personally I don't like the look of them and I prefer incident readings where possible, but they are convenient.
 
do you have an iPhone? just get the free and decent light meter app. it's pretty good if you ask me. saves you carrying extra gear if you are carrying the phone with you.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone.

The cheap price together with the shutter speed dial coupling makes a Leica meter attractive but not if it's inaccurate.

I thought the top plate gets scratched only if you're careless installing it?

I have an iPhone and have the light meter app but thought a coupled meter would be more conveient.


I'll probably stick with the vc meter then...
 
MRs are seldom reliable any more, and the switch on MCs is a pain in the bum too: poor contact is the default state. Yes, I'd go for the VC.

Cheers,

R. (Having owned all of them)
 
Hi,

Well, I'm still using the original MC meter on my M2 but it's been stored in the little red box when not in use. And it covers the marks and is pretty easy to use.

But I like to use original outfits and you may not be bothered by this.

Regards, David
 
goodtimes said:
I always put a layer ot gaffer tap on any deck intended to receive a meter for landing.
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Thanks!

David Hughes said:
Hi,

Well, I'm still using the original MC meter on my M2 but it's been stored in the little red box when not in use. And it covers the marks and is pretty easy to use.

But I like to use original outfits and you may not be bothered by this.

Regards, David
Click to expand...

Hi David,

Keeping the whole outfit 'original' was also one of the reasons for considering the MR, but from what everyone is saying, it appears that these meters are more trouble than they are worth!
 
Just to add confusion, I will say that I have found the MR meter for my M3 to be very accurate, and it is indeed convenient to have it coupled to the shutter speed. It won't scratch the top if you use some care.

Important point - for it to be accurate and work with a modern battery you need to have it overhauled by Quality Light Metrics. By the time you pay for that and the old MR, the cost will be about the same as the VC. But the VC doesn't couple.

Of course, now I have a 21mm, and I still need an external meter when I use the external viewfinder, so the convenience factor depends on what lens you plan on using most. I usually keep the 50mm on for the day, so that's when I use the MR.

Randy


Randy
 
Thanks Randy,

The coupling is indeed an attractive feature of the Leica meters. I don't suppose you know how much it costs to overhaul one of these meters do you?

Non-working MRs can be had for about £10 and working ones for not a lot more. If I could get it overhauled for less than £100, including the cost of the non-working meter, I'd still be ahead and have the coupling feature as well.

When we talk about the meter being inaccurate are we saying the technology used in the Leica meters are inherently inaccurate or that with age they have become that way?

If the former then the VC is probably the way to go, if the latter, and assuming the cost of an overhaul is reasonable, I'd Be happy to give the overhaul route a go.

Fnally, if the Leica meter is inherently inaccurate, is it bad enough to screw up my negatives?

Thanks all.

zauhar said:
Just to add confusion, I will say that I have found the MR meter for my M3 to be very accurate, and it is indeed convenient to have it coupled to the shutter speed. It won't scratch the top if you use some care.

Important point - for it to be accurate and work with a modern battery you need to have it overhauled by Quality Light Metrics. By the time you pay for that and the old MR, the cost will be about the same as the VC. But the VC doesn't couple.

Of course, now I have a 21mm, and I still need an external meter when I use the external viewfinder, so the convenience factor depends on what lens you plan on using most. I usually keep the 50mm on for the day, so that's when I use the MR.

Randy


Randy
Click to expand...
 
JianL said:
Thanks Randy,

The coupling is indeed an attractive feature of the Leica meters. I don't suppose you know how much it costs to overhaul one of these meters do you?

Non-working MRs can be had for about £10 and working ones for not a lot more. If I could get it overhauled for less than £100, including the cost of the non-working meter, I'd still be ahead and have the coupling feature as well.

When we talk about the meter being inaccurate are we saying the technology used in the Leica meters are inherently inaccurate or that with age they have become that way?

If the former then the VC is probably the way to go, if the latter, and assuming the cost of an overhaul is reasonable, I'd Be happy to give the overhaul route a go.

Fnally, if the Leica meter is inherently inaccurate, is it bad enough to screw up my negatives?

Thanks all.
Click to expand...

My understanding of the electronics is that the MC meters (which are even older than the MRs) used a Se cell, and those do go bad. The MRs use a CdS cell, which does not go bad, but does require a battery.

I recently had an external meter calibrated by QLM, and they charge around $80 for a meter overhaul, plus parts if needed. The cost may be the same for an MR, but it would be best to check directly with George Milton at QLM. If that cost holds, you might have good deal having the meter overhauled.

In terms of accuracy, my sense is that the MR is spot-on compared to my external meter, and I have always been happy with the exposures I set using it. As someone pointed out, you do need to be careful to switch from high to low-light range, but typically you leave it no one setting or the other for extended periods. Hard to make a mistake, as it will look dead if set on high in low light, and will peg if set at low in bright light.

Randy
 
zauhar said:
My understanding of the electronics is that the MC meters (which are even older than the MRs) used a Se cell, and those do go bad. The MRs use a CdS cell, which does not go bad, but does require a battery.

I recently had an external meter calibrated by QLM, and they charge around $80 for a meter overhaul, plus parts if needed. The cost may be the same for an MR, but it would be best to check directly with George Milton at QLM. If that cost holds, you might have good deal having the meter overhauled.

In terms of accuracy, my sense is that the MR is spot-on compared to my external meter, and I have always been happy with the exposures I set using it. As someone pointed out, you do need to be careful to switch from high to low-light range, but typically you leave it no one setting or the other for extended periods. Hard to make a mistake, as it will look dead if set on high in low light, and will peg if set at low in bright light.

Randy
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My experience is similar. I'm still using the MR4 I bought around 1969. I've had no problems. I did send it to Sherry, who recalibrated it for use with alkaline batteries. I think they are called A-625.

The advantage of using the Leica meter is that they cover the same 27 degree field as your 90mm lens (even if you don't have a 90, you do have the 90mm frameline). I frame the area I want to meter using the frameline selector lever (only necessary when a 90 is not fitted to the camera). Then I take reading with the MR-4, without moving the camera. This lets me control the exact area I'm taking the reading from. If I have a 35mm or a 50mm lens fitted, the 27 degree angle of acceptance amounts to a selected-area reading. With a 90, I have an accurately aimed full-frame reading. It's accurate enough to shoot color slide film.

This is why I use my MR-4. So I wouldn't dismiss it from consideration without being aware of this advantage.
 
Repairs in UK

Repairs in UK

Hi,

I've a small collection of meters from the 30's onwards and all have been checked and so on. Usual cost is/was £35 or so. Some were just rebalanced and the 1933 Leicameter had a new cell made and fitted. The new cell was far too effective and so the meter now shows the shutter speed for ASA 400 film at f/16. But a ND filter has cured that; sooner or later I'll fit it inside the meter housing.

Regards, David

PS But the electronic/digital ones have been more trouble over the years...

PPS Using the M2 & MC last week with no problems.
 
JianL said:
I want to buy a meter for my Ms and was wondering if it's worth buying an old working MR for a third of the price of a VC Meter 2.

My main concern is reliability and accuracy. I'm shooting negatives but slides are a possibility once in a while.
Click to expand...

When you give the MR4 a CLA it is a very reliable and accurate meter. :cool:
I do use this meter on my M4 cameras for many years. The coupling with the camera is indeed a very attractive feature.
 
kosta_g said:
do you have an iPhone? just get the free and decent light meter app. it's pretty good if you ask me. saves you carrying extra gear if you are carrying the phone with you.
Click to expand...

I use the light meter app now instead of a vcmeter on my m3, accurate enough for slide film and you can select parts of the scene to meter

Pm if you are interested in my vcmeter it is unused now

Nik
 
Joop van Heijgen said:
When you give the MR4 a CLA it is a very reliable and accurate meter. :cool:
I do use this meter on my M4 cameras for many years. The coupling with the camera is indeed a very attractive feature.
Click to expand...

Just in case the idea of "coupling" is unclear...

With an external meter or a clip-on meter such as the VC, you need to take your reading, and looking where the meter needle is on the scale, transfer both the recommended aperture and shutter speed onto the lens. With a coupled meter such as the Leicameter, you look where the meter needle is on the scale and transfer that aperture onto the lens. The meter already knows what the shutter speed is and will give you the correct aperture; that's the advantage of a "coupled" meter. (The price you pay for this added convenience is size; the meter is slightly larger than the VC non-coupled meter). Another advantage is that you can take your reading, then recompose, and the readout will still be accurate for the part of the scene that you metered. Having access to the instruction book is a real help for getting successful results.

As with any electronic gadget, generally the newer the better; the latest model of the Leica meter is the MR-4 which was issued to match with the (then) newly introduced M4. The latest iteration of the MR-4 is the black one which matched the black M4 which I'm guessing was introduced somewhere around 1970. Like the Leica itself, it's a sturdy and heavy (for its size) unit, and if not abused should function as smoothly and accurately as any other contemporaneous light meter. If you're lucky enough to score one that was only owned by one previous owner, and comes complete with the instruction manual, it will give you good results with any kind of film. Just be sure to use a compatible battery; Ken Rockwell's site tells you where to get a modern battery that will give voltage similar to that of the no-longer-available mercury cell (just enter "Wein" into the search box on Ken's site; that's the name of the battery). The use of inappropriate batteries with the MR meter may have helped give it a reputation for not being accurate: wrong battery voltage = wrong reading.
 
Hi, go for the vc2 meter, leica ones are bulky, hard to set on the camera, there´s always risk to scratch the top of your cam.
Sometimes they´re accurate but never as the vc meter.

The vc meter is great!, they look fine on m cameras or any other camera without lightmeter!!! I love folders and always use the vc meter wth my little collection, can´t do that with the leica ones

The only advantage of the m leicameter is the fact it´s coupled with the speed dial, but they are so bulky to operate that this only adavantage at last it not enough.

By the way you need a wein cell thats ok, but they exhaust and need a few minutes to work properly.
If not put some over voltage batt that will measure ok but not accurately.

Bye and luck!
 
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