Leica Screw Mount Lens Issue

[Timmyjoe]

Hi folks, wondering if anyone else has experienced this and know how to remedy it.

Got a Leica iiif that has had a CLA by Leica Germany, so I think it's in pretty good shape. Also got a Leica 5cm collapsable Summicron LTM to go with it. When I screw the lens onto the camera body, and get it nice and snug, the lens sticks when I try to focus it. The more I snug the lens down, the more the focus sticks. If I leave the lens just short of loose, the focus is silky smooth.

When I take this same lens, and screw it down tight to an LTM to M adapter, and then place the lens + adapter on a Leica M body, the focus is again silky smooth. What gives?

I can't see anything amiss with the iiif. Taking a flat edge along the whole surface of the lens mount flange on the camera body, shows no high or low spots. Can't figure this out. When the lens is tight on an adapter and then on an M body, silky smooth focus. When the lens is tight on the iiif, sticky focus.

Again, anyone else experience this and know how to deal with it?

Any and all info will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Best,
-Tim

 

[n5jrn]

What do other LTM lenses do on that same body? What does the troublesome lens do on other LTM bodies?

If you don't have multiple lenses/bodies sufficient to conduct such experiments, see if you can stop by a used camera store and conduct them.

 

[Timmyjoe]

Yeah, this is my only LTM lens and only LTM body. The lens seems to be okay in that it focuses smoothly when not mounted, and focuses smoothly when mounted on an M camera with the mount adapter.

But I can't see anything amiss on the LTM body, and it just got back from Germany where it got a complete CLA.

Really baffled. How tight are you supposed to screw the lenses down on an LTM body?

Best,
-Tim

 

[hollandphotos]

I had this happen... Advice from Mr Ye

then the problem is not the lens, it is the camera lens flange.* You need try to loose the four screws on lens flange one by one, while keep other three tight, then try out the lens, finally use a little glue keep the loose screw in place.* You may have to keep two screws loose and two tight.* It will take a while practice to make the lens focus smooth on the camera.* It is quite common IIIf may have tight lens mount flange due to the chassis under the lens flange is not perfect level.

Mine was the screw in the 2:00 position. With it loose the lens is perfect!

 

[FrankS]

Great information, thank you hollandphotos (and Mr.Ye)!

 

[hollandphotos]

Great information, thank you hollandphoto!

No Prob!

-Phil

 

[mdarnton]

If Leica "fixed" it, make them fix it again, because they messed up. The right fix is NOT glue. It's a shim under the flange so that it doesn't lie with a twist (there should already be some there to set the film-to-flange distance).

What's with all the glue around here for "fixing" things?????? This is about the third time I've seen someone suggest gluing something that needs to be properly adjusted. That's duct tape for cameras. Have more class, guys. You didn't buy Leicas to fix them with duct tape.

 

[FrankS]

If Leica "fixed" it, make them fix it again, because they messed up. The right fix is NOT glue. It's a shim under the flange so that it doesn't lie with a twist (there should already be some there to set the film-to-flange distance).

What's with all the glue around here for "fixing" things?????? This is about the third time I've seen someone suggest gluing something that needs to be properly adjusted. That's duct tape for cameras. Have more class, guys. You didn't buy Leicas to fix them with duct tape.

Or glue. Good point.

 

[hollandphotos]

No need to scold. I'm happy with the solution for now and wanted to share it. My IIF focuses like a dream with my collapsible summicron now.

Glue is a tool also. I didn't even use it...just backed off the tension.

 

[Timmyjoe]

Mine was the screw in the 2:00 position. With it loose the lens is perfect!

Thanks Hollandphotos. I suspected it was something like that, but it is reassuring to hear from Mr. Ye.

I would love to send it back to Leica in Germany to have them fix it properly, but the last time I did that, the camera was gone for over two months, and I shoot with this regularly.

Best,
-Tim

 

[Timmyjoe]

Just got off the phone with Mr. Ye. He confirmed that this is a somewhat common issue with iif and iiif cameras, and a very common issue with the iiif Red Dial (he said it was the worst of the Leica screw mount cameras for this issue).

I service motion picture cameras, so have a large stock of lens mount shims. Hopefully it won't be too tough to fix. And then probably have to reset the flange focal distance at infinity, but fortunately I have a collimator to do that.

Other than this issue, I simply love the iiif RD and this particular 5cm Summicron collapsable. Can't wait to get it back up and running again.

Best,
-Tim

 

[Timmyjoe]

Well it turns out that, as usual, things are a bit more complicated that they originally appeared. I posted this on a number of forums, and a camera service person commented that he had seen this before, and he said in particular on iiif cameras serviced at the factory. Seems that when you are reassembling the camera, and you are putting the front plate on, you need to go back and loosen a couple of brackets you've already tightened, otherwise you put undo torque on the front plate, causing it to twist and not sit flat.

That twist is transmitted to the lens mount flange, which transmits the twist to the lens when it is mounted, which binds up the lens. That's my understanding at least.

I found this in the National Camera service manual for the iiif:

"The screw at the bottom of the front plate (which is slightly shorter in length than the other four front plate screws (screw G)) and the uppermost screw around the lens opening (screw D) both pass into anchor plates on the inside of the focal plane. Before installing these two, loosen the screws which secure the anchor plates (one at the end of the flat retard rod spring and two within the accessory shoe cavity). Now, align the threaded holes in the anchor plates with their corresponding holes in the front plate and replace the two front plate screws. Tighten down the anchor plates once again and install the remaining three screws around the lens opening which thread into the light shields."

Here's an image of the front plate with the screws identified by letter.

On my camera I found out I could remedy this by taking the camera apart, loosening screw D and G and then loosening the anchor plate screws, then tightening screw D and G, and then tightening the anchor plate screws?

I then put the camera back together, reset the FFD with a collimator, and reset the rangefinder at infinity. Now she focuses nice and smooth.

Very Happy.

Thanks to everyone for your input.

Best,
-Tim

 

[dave lackey]

As in most things bought and sold, I suspect it was a temporary fix until the CLA or detailed-interest person who wants a complete repair. Youxin is a great repairman IMO and is also a practical individual, not a fly-by-night individual.:angel:

Wood chippers? 😛

On a serious note, Fred, does Leica offer new vulcanite for, say, an M3? Or are we on our own with cameraleather, etc.? If they do, I wonder how much they charge?

 

[FrankS]

Reskinning a camera is easy-peasy. And very satisfying, kind of like wallpapering.

 

[Vickko]

Not sure Leica offers vulcanite any more. Even for the new cameras, it is a self-adhesive peel-off material.

Aki-Asahi offers excellent coverings too, and super fast shipping from Japan:
http://aki-asahi.com/store/
The fit is superb.

CRR Luton offers real vulcanite, but pricey:
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/vulcanite.html

With either cameraleather or aki-asahi, I can't see myself personally going the CRR solution, especially since with the two former ones, I can do it at home.

Vick

On a serious note, Fred, does Leica offer new vulcanite for, say, an M3? Or are we on our own with cameraleather, etc.? If they do, I wonder how much they charge?

 

[B-9]

Ive had good experiences using camerleather.com
They offer a nice variety of coverings for every price range.

If your camera is a serious workaholic, go for the griptac, its all they claim qnd more.
The kid (goat) leather covering in cardinal red is a real looker.